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He was good against Steen a few weeks ago in PWG. John

Yeah. Nash was one of the guys who wouldn't take the buyout for a % of what remained on his contract. Milk it until it ended, then see if he could get into the WWE for another payday. John

That's the point, ATM Eric was so stupid he tossed Nash and Hall a load of cash their way to keep them happy, even though there was no legal way possible for them to turn up on Raw. Except I didn't find it in the WON. Beats the shit out of me where PowerSlam got it from. John

Yeah, not Barnett. I'm with Bix and others: Bill's bending over backwards to explain his getting his cock sucked makes my brain hurt. John

Dave's piece on the Grantland piece is hit and miss. The positive is that he's harder on Ric than one would expect. He pretty much admits that the massive numbers of issues can't be palmed off. He also admitts what some of us have said: these are just the issues that have ended up in what is largely one court (an exception being the Hell Flight being in AZ court). The negatives might come across as nitpicky: * still defends Ric to a degree * standard Meltzer writing that could use an editor: bounces around and also loses the thread in some sentences/paragraphs * The Big Goldie story is a bit off: it's not the belt Ric has used as collateral, Ric *did* return it to WCW, and it's likely (I'd have to double check) that Ric did get his deposit back as part of the case. * not much by way of new reporting The middle two are probably the nitpicky things. We're use to Dave's writing after 20 years, so you just roll with it. The Big Goldie is perhaps a little less of a nitpicky because it's an area where Dave is trying to add "context", detail or even correction to the Grantland piece. He doesn't pull it off very well. The first one is a little balanced out by the overall tone of the piece. Whether intentional or not, it feels like Dave has reached the point where he finds this aspect of Ric's life to be sad, pathetic, hard to defend, and wishes that it wasn't this bad. He can't quite bring himself to say it that explicitly or hammer Ric like he would Hogan, who does get a cameo run in as being a broke wrestler. But it's there in what he writes, and he can't bring himself to make a full throated defense. The fourth is... I don't know what to make of it. Dave largely walks through the incidents/issues reported in the Grantland piece, which Dave himself has admitted were a lot of things not known and/or reported in the past. Someone who wasn't a "wrestling reporter" came onto Dave's ground writing about Dave's favorite wrestler of all-time and not only summed up Ric's laundry list of issues better than Dave ever had, but hit items that hadn't been in the sheets before. That seems not to have inspired any "wrestling reporter" or wrestling writer to dig deeper and report on anything beyond (i) what is in the Grantland piece, or (ii) what they've already hit. An example of this would be Ric's recent TNA issues. Dave rolls out issues he's written about before rather than coming up with anything fresh. We all know how when wrestlers drop dead and Dave does a obit that there are little items that pop up in them that Dave had kept close to hand for years. This piece doesn't have any of that. There's a sense that Dave has to talk about what's been made public in Grantland, pulls a few additional items that he's been forced to report in the WON, but that's it. John

That's the thing, though. The people who went to the school. WWF was inclusive. If you were a WWF Fan, that was enough. That was like going to the school. Then the bully was on your side. As for Stone Cold, there are plenty of examples of him being a bully and stunnering people that didn't deserve it. Stunnering HHH or The Big Show isn't bullying. Stunnering Holly every week for a year and stealing his beer money is bullying. The notion that the WWF/WWE is like a school where everyone roots for everyone on the team is nonsensical. Hogan vs Savage in MSG in early 1986. They're both on the WWF "team". So were the fans rooting for both? Savage-Steamer at Mania the next year. Both on the WWF Team. Fans rooting for both? Were the rooting for the clear bully in it (Savage)? Folks don't root for true bullies. They think they're cocksuckers. John

"Kevin Nash and Scott Hall knew nothing of this angle, finding out amidst a ton of commotion within wrestling while appearing on Friday night at the WCW house show in Shreveport. There is no loophole in the respective contracts which have more than two years left nor have their (sic) been any talks of them rejoining the WWF." -Dave Meltzer, 09/16/96 WON Please don't make me keep reading the WON's and Torches from this period of time because the WWF is so batshit crazy desperate it's painful to ready. It was funny at the time to watch and read Vince lose his mind, but it's no more entertaining on re-read than the collapse of WCW. Can we put Nash's ass talking to bed? John

That's a good one. John

A letter of intent is a form of contract, especially if goods/services and consideration are transacted. I'm looking at a seven figure check in a big chunk of plastic on my desk that's a check another company cut us because they tried to argue they weren't bound by an LOI. We cleaned their fucking clocks in the case. Now I'm not taking Nash's word that they were working under a "deal memo", LOI or MOU since Nash has a rather long track record of lying his ass off (example: has Nash ever payed that tribute money he promised a decade ago?). But assuming for a minute that he is telling the truth, he was working under a three year LOI/MOU that paid him more than $37,500 a month and for which he'd already: * made numerous appearances for WCW * performed many services for WCW * had been paid / was due to be paid at least $112,500 for You really think Time Warner / Turner lawyers were afraid he'd could walk away and show up on WWF TV? Or that Eric shook in his knees and gave and extra $800K to the two people. This being the same TW/Turner folks who sued Ric for breaking the terms of an LOI? Sure, Ric counter sued... but that was going to end up the same way all of Ric's lawsuits do: he was going to get clocked. This is NASH. Come on fellows... this is the most jaded wrestling website around. We look at wrestlers telling Great Stories and call Bullshit on them every day of the year. NASH. The second biggest signing in the history of WCW... and not only they couldn't close a contract in the 90s days before he debuted, but they couldn't close it for another 90 days? You're being goofy. John

What examples are there of Eric in the post-Pillman period sending out major stars to the ring with major pushes (as in the core to the entire promotion) without a lockdown full contract? And then not just for a day, but for months after they debuted. Then add in the three months prior to that where they gave Vince notice. John

My college football team spent the past decade being asshole bullies. No one likes them other than (i) people who went to the school, or (ii) people who grew up in the area and started watching them as a kid. The rest of the country hates them. I grew up hating Nebraska and OU, the biggest asshole bullies of the 70s. No one in the 70s liked George Foreman, the boxing classic asshole bully of the era (more an asshole because he didn't interview well). Contrast it with loveable old fart George who made hundreds of millions off his fryer. Folks don't mind ass kickers who are assholes on some level. But bullies... no one really likes true bullies. Stone Cold was an ass kicker who has an asshole streak. But bully? No... he didn't go out of his way to beat the shit out of Spike Holly every week and steal his beers. In the long term, folks wouldn't have remained interested if that's all Stone Cold did: beat up cruiserweights. John

Aja isn't at her peak here, or really that close. She really grows into the Champ role. John

I don't think they like bullies. They like ass kickers. In the absence of a clear ass kicker, they'll take a bull over someone who they don't think is tough. John

Okay, so The Brain was getting a little excited there worrying about Bock losing. But a real sportsman would have picked up the knucks, given them to the ref, and then beaten Bock fair and square to win the title. Hogan tried to short cut his way to the title, then lied about it. John

Minor point: It was initially Hogan (and Mr. T) that saved Orndorff from a 2-on-1 beating from Piper and Orton on the first SNME. That isn't the case: Orndorff reached out to save Hogan three days before SNME was taped. Hogan than talked McMahon into *not* inserting this major breaking news into the 05/11/85 syndication shows (via voice overs), or inserting it easily into the 05/11/85 SNME to show that Paul was the first one to reach out. Instead, Hogan convinced McMahon to make it look like Hogan was the one who saved Paul first. See, even from the start of their friendship, Hogan was trying to hog the spotlight and look better than Mr. Wonderful. It's amazing that it took Paul a year to figure out what a jerk Hogan was. John

Hell... I forgot about that. Not only did Andre have to ask, but even then Hogan didn't want to do it. Hogan drove Andre into the arms of The Brain. Other wrestlers, managers and announcers weren't lying when they said that Hogan was hogging on the spotlight. I remember Hogan starting claiming put himself over as "The Immortal Hulk Hogan" for the first time in 1990... not long after he lost the title to Warrior. WWF Champion Ultimate Warrior The Immortal Hulk Hogan Okay... so Hogan losing the title, then proclaims his godhood like he's Caligula . He's bigger that the WWF Title. No wonder Warrior failed as the WWF Champ: Hogan stole his thunder. John

Now way in hell that's the case. They were leaving the WWF for big money guaranteed contract. Ponder it from each side: Hall & Nash side: They would never have wrestled a single match in WCW without a locked in contract that protected them in case they got hurt. Eric side: He never would have put them on TV without a locked in contract for fear of them pulling a Luger or a Pillman. Nash is talking out of his ass. He's been caught in enough lies that I'm pretty gobsmacked anyone would believe him. John

From Corey's site: Hall & Nash were under official WCW contracts long before August 19. They were under contract when they first appeared on Nitro. This is just more of Nash talking out of his ass. At this point, if Nash said the Pacific Ocean was full of water, we probably should go down to the beach to verify it. John

I'll give you an example. Not real, but an example. I bought my house for $500K. I sold today for $501K. My next door neighbor has the exact same design, in the same condition, etc. He sold his on Monday for $1000K. The market for sellers and buyers hasn't changed since Monday. I "made" $1K on the deal. "... by any other criteria you can think of doing better then they were before they had this deal so why not jump for joy over it?" I just pissed away $499K because I'm suppose to be jumping for joy at making $1K. That's an extreme example and totally not real (market for house sucks and I don't have a house ). But UFC is a house. The NHL is a house. NASCAR is a house. ACC sports is a house. The NFL is a fucking mansion. $100M a year is a little light for the UFC house compared to the NHL house. I grasp the argument on why Comcast might go that high compared to NHL: more hours of content for NHL, it's been around longer, more reliable that it will be there in 7 years. Which is why I made the other point: 7 years is a long time for UFC to tie themselves down. If the Fox deal (or a deal with another network) turned out to be a big hit, they're kind of stuck with an under valued TV deal. Examples? The SEC's TV contracts are under valued now compared to what other conferences are raking in. They also undervalued the concept of a Conference Network (or series of regional nets) compared to what we now see the value of the Big 10 Network and Pac 12 Network (let along the Longhorn Network). At the time it was signed, it looked like the greatest deal of all time. Now, the SEC looks at it and sees it undervalued. Major reason the SEC would be happy to expand (i.e. A&M and 1 or 3 other teams)? Because it will allow them to renegotiate those deals and get more value out of them. Perhaps college sports is a bit far a field from UFC. So lets go with a closer example: When the WWF/WWE was in it's salad days and it's revenue was going up-up-up, it wasn't locking itself into 7-10 year TV deals on cable. It wanted to be able to come back in several years and shop around. There's risk in that. But there's also reward. No one is saying that UFC is going to be the next NFL, or MLB, or NBA. That's unrealistic. But the next Hockey? We're talking 0.2 ratings for those 90 regular season games. And even the Stanley Cup isn't insane ratings. From a ratings draw standpoint, UFC can move up from where it is now. While I think we'll all agree that it's peaked on some level, I also think we'd all agree that looking at the numbers and what other sports do, it also could pull in higher ratings if the sport kicked it up to the next level of popularity. Again, I'd be interested if the contract has outs, either in 4 or so years, or if UFC tops a certain ratings level. If not, I think the UFC is locking themselves into a deal that might be low if the sport becomes as popular on TV as say... WWE wrestling. John

I think back then, as now, fans like a babyface who will kick some ass. Hogan would kick some ass. John

I agree with that in concept, but don't know if it's applicable to the current sporting world. Interest in the Dodgers peaked years ago. Yet Fox is ready to toss somewhere between $1.5B and $3B at them. Possibly more if (ii) the Dodgers didn't have rube owners and (ii) we were outside the Exclusive Negotiating Rights window. Interest in NASCAR peaked ages ago. While NASCAR might end up with less than the $562M a year they currently get out of ESPN/Fox/TNT/Speed, it's *possible* that they won't dip at all. Depends on who is paying in. ACC Football peaked... when? 90s when FSU was king? When Miami moved down from the Big East? NCAA Hoops to a degree has peaked as well given the mass of content available, and the increased focus on March Madness. Yet the ACC doubled it's rights fees last year with their new deal with ESPN. Hockey peaked decades ago. Yet they had a massive increase with the new Comcast deal. I think the argument that could reasonably be made for UFC is that it's only peaked in its current form: 3rd tier TV network + PPV. Whether that argument turns out to be true or not is open to debate. But as a sport is really hasn't had the massive network push and focus that other sports have had. It again is one of the reasons that they always should have found a way to get in bed with ESPN. I know ESPN are assholes to deal with. But the reason the NBA, MLB and NFL are in bed with them (and NASCAR so badly wanted to get back there) is because ESPN is the National Hype Machine for sports in this country. On a quite Saturday in July, you really want ESPN to have a vested interest in your sport so that you lead off Sports Center with major coverage of UFC. It's hard to get it to work... they haven't been able to, and may never be able to. But the Really Big Money of UFC is being content on TV, not PPV buys. 500M for freaking NASCAR. John

In fairness to Hogan, I've seen Lawler punch out several female valets before Hogan ever dreamed of doing it. Lawler's views on women aren't good ones to hold up as role models. John

Hold on there. Paul saw the light after Wrestlemania. He fired his no good manager. Brain then went and put a bounty on Paul's head. When he had title matches with Hogan and got beat fair and square, he shook Hogan's hand. That was respect, which is more than Hogan ever showed Paul. It wasn't Hogan who came to save Paul, but it was Paul who ran in to save Hogan when Studd, Patera & Heenan tried to cut Hogan's hair. That was twice that Paul made the first step to mend their sporting differences: shaking Hogan's hand out of respect, and running in to save him against an evil pair. So Hogan's couldn't show Paul the same level of respect by answering his calls, or at least returning them promptly? Look... Andre was a man of honor and pride. He didn't ask for anything, unless it was to get a piece of that bastard Khan after he broke his leg. Andre doesn't ask... he just does. Remember this: Andre didn't have to be there to celebrate with Hogan after he won the title. He had a match coming up later in the card and normally would have been doing a little light exercise do he didn't go into the ring "cold", and a little meditating to be mentally sharp. But he broke up his pre-match ritual to go out of his way to give props to the young up & commer who just won the biggest prize in the sport. He didn't ask if he could shoot a photo op with the new Champ, he did by making his way over to pay his respects. Three years, and Hogan had beaten everyone in sight. He was giving title shots to freaking Hercules. Don't tell me that the Champ doesn't have pull when it comes to who he faces. All the way back to the 30s, guys like Jim Londos would only fight the guys they wanted to. We all know that Lou Thesz wouldn't face Bruno because he was chicken of the Living Legend. Race? After Backlund kicked his ass in MSG, he never wanted to come back to face the Champ until he was broke and needed some of Junior's money. Flair? He'd only face Backlund in NWA Country where the ref was on the take because he knew that Bob would take that belt in a fair fight. Nick Bockwinkel? He paid off the AWA to give him his title back every time Hogan beat him fair in the ring, then conspired with the promoters to run Hogan out of the AWA to save the belt. Hogan knew this. He watched it first hand with what Bockwinkel did. Once he got the title, he knew the one man he never wanted to face: Andre. So he befriended him, glad handed him, and did everything he could to make sure the following thought never crossed the mind of the Championship Committee: Hogan vs Andre It was Andre who had to finally pushing things to make it happen, after getting sickened to his stomach to see guys like Hercules and Kimala get title shots. Sadly, Andre's health had gone out in 1986. He wasn't close to 100% when he faced Hogan. Frankly it was one of the things that drove him to forcing the match: he knew his time as a top wrestler was fading, and if he let Hogan stall any longer, his chance of beating Hogan would be gone. That's some friend there. Not giving a shot your idol, hero and friend. Making him force it. And stalling until he was in a weakened shape. Totally unsportsman like. What are you talking about? Hogan wanted to Randy's *wife*. Don't think so? Look at the post match: Randy's celebrating a hard earned win, while Hogan is looking over to try to put the moves on Liz behind Macho's back: Then... lordy... he's all sweaty and stuff rubbing up against her: I mean... look at this: http://www.misselizabeth.com/wwf/ppv/sumslam88/ss3.AVI That's another man's WIFE!!! and he's damn near dry (or sweaty) humping in the ring infront of 20,000 fans and the millions at home. I don't even want to post the video where he's grabbing her ass... this is a family board. But it's safe to say that Hogan was out of line here. Hogan talked about saying his prayers, but what about not coveting your friends wife? Macho had every right to be upset when he finally had a chance to review what his "friend" Hogan was trying to get up to with Liz. You don't hit women. Hitting Sheri was way out of line. You kindly ask the ref to throw her out of ringside. John

So I'm reading Dave's recap of the UFC/Fox deal, and I'm again scratching my head that this is some kind of great deal for UFC. The deal on FX would consist of: * 24 episodes of The Ultimate Fighter * two Ultimate Fighter finals live cards * four to six Fight Night shows * taped Unleashed, Ultimate Knockouts, Best of The Pride Fighting Championships * Countdown & Prime Time promotional vehicles for pay-per-view * UFC programming on Fuel TV For $100M a year. Granted, that's not a ton of contact. But in contrast as I think some of us have bounced around, the NHL's new deal with Comcast/NBC/Versus/NBC Sports Channel is $180M to $200M a year. The is a lot of content in that deal: * 90 regular season games * loads of playoff games * All Star game * Outdoor Game * other lightweight things like the Draft and Awards Show, etc At 3 hours a clip, a game does give a lot of "hours of content" to Comcast. But... 0.2 regular season ratings. It does do better for the Stanley Cup Finals, but it's not like people are truly busting down the doors to watch hockey. It's worth noting also: this is a Non-Exclusive Deal. Each team is able to enter into their own local deal(s) to pull in some more cash. The NHL has lots of content, but it's also largely worthless content. The valuable hours of content probably aren't much more in terms of hours than what the UFC's new deal has (UF, UF Finals, Fight Nights). There isn't any word on whether the UFC deal is exlusive, or if not exclusive, just how limiting it is. I've tossed out in some of these discussions that one of the smart things that the NFL and NBA have done (as have other sports) is get multiple broadcasters to the table. It's not just to use channels against each other to jack up the fees, but also to have multiple major entertainment companies happy to have a piece of your action. You can get more out of 2 than 1, and you're also less likely to piss everyone off other than just the 1 winner. I think what would concern me the most, at least as far as easy reporting to get your hands on, is that it's a 7 year deal. Sports rights fees are on the way up. It's unclear whether PPV will remain high, or even grow in those 7 years. By locking yourself into $100M a year for 7 years, you're putting yourself on the sidelines during a period of rapid growth in sports fees. It's also a time where all the major entertainment companies are trying to get their piece. Time Warner, which had been fairly sleepy other than the NBA, has started to make more of a play recently. The most obvious one was their massive splash on the Lakers, but there have been a number of other ones that show they're looking to join their other rivals at the major sports table. If it's a 7 year deal with an "out" after say 4 years, that might be interesting. They could have a far sooner window to move the $100M up. If not, you do have to wonder why they didn't stick with Spike under a shorter deal, or go to Fox with a short deal. John

Hogan also wouldn't give Andre a title shot until Andre forced the issue. You don't make a friend have to beg for a title shot. John