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Agreed. I'm not the best one to point towards rambling & repetitious, but there were a lot of good points that got buried by the length of the piece and too great of use of the word "I". John

Good set of comments by Mike. Including the "life or death winning argument" thing. I've been in that same category, with Mike one of many on the other side. I've spent the last several years trying to shed the trait. Don't always succeed... "work in progress"... John

Sorry Bix, should have been clearer: I was responding to SLL. John

Vanes had been reviewing movies for a while before that. Just seemed like he wanted to cut the cord/baggage of being a "wrestling fan". But frankly it was/is bizzare to fake a death and work his friends. It really isn't hard to cut ties with the wrestling world, ignore it and move on. We can all think of lots of fans we've known over the years who have moved on. John

They may be looking at what the re-runs do vs Smackdown pulling in 3M or so viewers and think they can get re-run value on Saturday night or whatnot. Long term, with the DVR becoming increasingly common (plus watching shows online, etc), re-run value is going to be very low relative to first run programing. One gets the feeling that Universal wanted to lock in 52 x 2 x 2 hours of consistent first run material. SyFy might not be a great long term fit, but with so many Universal/Comcast outlets to work with, down the road they can always move it. The initial move to Friday seems like a decent first spot: it's at the time and day people are use to watching it. Probably best to hook them in with an easy transition, then look for another time down the road if needed. John

Agreed. Well into the phase where you could see the Rock would outgrow and lap the NOD real fast. If I recally correctly, the Chyna-Henry storyline was good non-wrestling stuff. Don't recall if the storyline was peaking here, or later. But I do think Chyna and the NAO were pretty close to their peak around here, and the NOD was at its peak because of Rock. Lotta stuff going into that match. John

JR left? It might have been during one of my "lasped" stages of WON subscribing... or one of my "skim" stages. But I thought JR's getting gradually pushed aside was part of the cleaning out of the old guard, similar to Patterson being phased down the power ladder. Perhaps the "JR left" stuff was simply JR seeing his front office role & power & influence gone and just tapping out. John

Agreed, and lord knows he stuck it out longer than most any of us could have. John

I recall that when I asked that a while back that Bix has some solid dope on what Vanes pulled. John

I do wonder how much of it was hit opponent really, really, really coming into his own as a veryy over heel. Rock would take it to the next level after Surivor Series, but that was just three months away. We've all seen faces get pops above the level they usually do when it comes against a heel that's super over with the fans. A lot of us point to the "why" of why Trip cut off so many wrestlers at the knees as being due to his getting passed by three peers that he hadn't seen as peers before they got over huge: Austin, Rock and Mick. I suspect right at that point, Trip thought he once again was the destined superstar rather than Rock, probably buying into that pop as being his. By November, it was pretty clear that not only was Rock ahead, but light years ahead. Again, I always wonder how much of Trip's "high points" through say 2001 are the result of the "other guy" he was involved with, even to a degree Steph. John

This gets scary when you start telling us which wrestlers are the Pistols, The Clash and Joy Division. John

I like the "... not my fault that guys who made big money did not save it, pay their taxes or act like responsible adults" part. John

Great article, Bix. Thanks for the tip on Rip It Up and to Rovert for England's Dreaming. "I Want Candy" was one of those great things that at the time you just don't get and about 4-5 years later it dawns on you what was going on. I'm the same age as Annabella, so at the time a sexed up 15-16 year old New Wave hottie was pretty fantastic in 1982. Then when you're in college watching MTV in a slight haze, it suddenly dawns on you that this shit wasn't aimed just at 12-16 guys... but dirty old men as well. And the video got really creepy fast. John

It wasn't just the Outlaws. Chyna had stretches of being over as well. Trip seemed to be the *least* over of the four, but was the one pushed down everyone's throats. He never really got truly over until paired up with Steph for the run through Vince-Mick-Rock. That "made" him. Some of what worked for himself is that he got to play an egotistical power hungry prick, which cuts pretty close to the truth. But most of it was how massively Vince-Mick-Rock put him over, and how freaking annoying Steph was (in a generally positive heat drawing way) in her role. And also how they pushed him: first heel to run the main at Mania, among other things. A perfect storm, including Austin being out, work together to finally get Trip over. Think about it: three of the four most over characters of the Attitude Era all busting their hump to put him over, two completely doing it and the third, the second biggest star of the era, was booked to let Trip get over on him like really no other heel has gotten over on a mega-babyface in WWF/WWE history to that point. Somehow I think all that is going to be forgotten in Trip's bio, and instead we'll just get a stat dump of doom on all the major shows he's headlined. John

What's funny is that Ali was a *babyface* by the time of the Thilla. The biggest babyface in sports in the country, if not the world. He was a heel in the 60s. The title stripage and the anti-war stance turned drew him some more fans as a face, though those who really hated him in the 60s only hated him more because of it. He cleary was a heel at the first Ali-Fraizer, and kinda-sorta the heel at the second. But the Rumble in the Jungle turned him face. Foreman wasn't liked at all, and scared the shit out of lots of racist white america more than Ali. For all the "gorilla in Manila" stuff being heel in hindsight, at the time fans ate the shit up. I was 9 at the time of the Thiller, 8 at the time of the Rumble. I don't recall any of my group of friends (or their older brothers) or anyone at school who wasn't pulling for Ali in either fight. That was a whole bunch of white kids thinking that Ali was the greatest thing in sports. John

Just to support Loss's point, a teenage gay can't in the US be gay the way a straight person is. Very recent example: Lesbian teen back at Miss. school after prom flap McMillen: I Was Sent to Fake Prom We're an utterly fucked up country on sex. Coming out like McMillen did *is* brave. And it's not uncommon to be forced to eat shit in this country for being brave. :/ John

One gets the feeling that Silva is completely bored at middleweight, hence his string of fucking off performances at that weight. I know they have issues booking him against his stable mate at light heavy, but they really need to get his ass up there and book him against what remains a pretty damn deep group of LHW's. It also would open up middleweight to fighters who actually give a shit about the division. I like Silva when he's "on" and motivated. A really interesting, quirky, "different" fighting style. But the crap performances... it's a bit like watching a Macho Camcho title fight. You feel like you've wasted your time and money watching the fight, and you'd much rather watch two fighters who give a shit. My problem with Silva is that he doesn't have that "I want to see him beat" heat for *me* that say Macho or Prince Naseem. I never liked either of those guys. I like Silva. His bad performances just are a pain. John

Perhaps, though people were talking about Bret in the newsletters in the late 80s, so by 1990 people were interested in a single push. Bret had a different type of "it", though I tend to agree that it was a matter of resonance and affinity rather than pure charisma. What Bret had was of value because guys like Nash/Diesel could get "hot" or "cool", could be made champ but couldn't sustain it. We can blame Diesel on Vince "changing his character", but the reality is that the company changed Shawn's initially when he become champ, and they did plenty of things to unintentionally undermine Bret. Those two were able to sustain their connection with the fans, while Diesel died and really didn't click back in the WWF until going heel on Bret-Taker... and who knows how long he would have sustained that if he hadn't left for WCW. I tend to think Bret was Misawa'ish, while Shawn was Kobashi. Not exactly in terms of work, but relative personality/charisma. Kobashi's charisma is right out there in the open, natural and impossible to miss. Misawa connection... very different. I wrote when he died that in the early 90s, hardcore fans didn't quiet get Misawa's connection other than he was the top guy on that side opposite Jumbo. But to a degree they were also hoping that they'd just get on with it so we could get to the good stuff where the more charismatic Kobashi and Kawada were the top guys. But... in the end... it was Misawa who had that odd connection with the fans where they held him in a special, high regard. We're not terribly good in promoting folks like that in the US. Tend to look for the Kobashi because it jumps out at promoters/bookers. Or when we have a Misawaish guy, try to get them to personality it up. As far as the WWE pushing someone who doesn't have "it", they have. For more than a decade. Trip. It's worked on some level and at some times, even though I'm not a fan of his. But he really doesn't naturally have "it" relative to a *lot* of his peer group that came up in the 90s or came along after. I mean... compare him with someone who so totally didn't have "it" for years like Scott Hall, but as soon as they tossed him in the Razor gimmick he tapped into something within himself that was ridiculous... and ridiculously charismatic. [note: I know he flashed some of it with the last gimmick in WCW, but Razor was an entirely different leap forward] Trip never has had that. He's pretty much had to bust his ass (generously) or overly forced himself (more reasonably) to try to be charismatic. He's one of those guys where you've always seen the "acting" behind what he's doing. The WWE and no doubt Trip himself would claim that it's had success with him. John

So was Silva "good pro wrestling" or "bad pro wrestling" at UFC 112? Or when it's bad, does the similarity to pro wrestling get ignored? John

Contracts were half of it. The other half of it was a massive decline in revenue. House shows, PPV and merch all went in the tank. Let's say the swing is this: 1998: $135M revenue on $80M expenses/cost = $55M profit 1999: $94M revenue on $110M expenses/cost = -$16M loss 2000: $58M revenue on $120M expenses/cost = -$62M loss I'm pulling numbers completely out of my ass, but here's the thought: High on the hog in 1998 and expecting not only to continue the ride (remember their ego at that point), ATM Eric is more than willing to hand out contract increases left and right while also spending other money left and right to go first class. Except revenue dips strongly. WCW isn't cutting off those big contracts because they don't want folks to go to the WWF... unless they're head cases say like Waltman. Let's say expenses increase again in 2000 as they desperately throw things at the wall while also having loads of fat, increasing contracts. At the same time revenue falls off the cliff. When they signed those deals, they were expecting revenue to continue to grow like it had from 1996 to 1997 to 1998... which was tremendous growth. They thought the would be able to cover them. Tons of companies and people go bankrupt this way. They have a certain revenue stream, they see it growing in the past and project continuing growth (or even conservatively simply sustaining the growth), and budget their businesses/live to be supported by the revenue. When the revenue goes south, or even something as simple as fails to hit the projected growth, that budget takes a hit. If that was done by running up a debt, they're in trouble. In a sense, contracts are a form of debt for a company: just another payable they're obligated to hand over cash on. John

WrestleCrap Thread: Master P/No Limit Soldiers in WCW What a horrid idea. John

I belive I said "Liar" rather than "Idiot" in the case of Lagana. I also was talking about Madden in terms of gaydar, not Lagana. John

According to Madden in the piece above: "Kanyon wasn’t out when he was in WCW, but everybody knew, and I never once saw him victimized by homophobia." Now that could be Mark bullshitting, or perhaps Mark has exceptional gaydar. But if "everyone knew" in WCW, it's pretty hard for Lagana *later* in the WWF to not have known. It's more of a stretch when one understands that Kanyon was out enough at the point of the Boy George spot that others on WWF Creative not only knew, but they also wanted to fuck with him. It's wrestling. When people think they "know" something, they pass it around. Take the "Savage Banged Steph" story. No matter how much folks on here have walked through how the story doesn't add up at all, lots of folks in the business "know" it and it's all over the place inside. So Lagana... on the standard Idiot Or Liar test in wrestling, on this one he comes across as a Liar. John

There also was talk of Taker saying something similar to Vader before their first match. Which I happened to see live: WWF @ San Bernardino, CA - Orange Pavilion - April 1, 1996 (3,000; sell out) The Undertaker pinned Vader with a chokeslam It was a Raw taping the night after Mania. That was a dark match, though the cameras were clearly rolling (red light city). And it was typical Vince/WWF bullshit of forcing Vader to clean job almost instantly after coming into the promotion to "prove" himself, and also to have it in the can if he was a pain in the ass and they needed to make him look bad. Don't know if Dave ever printed the item at the time that Taker told Leon not to work stiff or he would have Vince fire him. But Dave did tell us the next time we hooked up for a show. John

Dittos the racial jokes. John