Dylan Waco

I"ve seen a bunch of his matches. He's okay. He is not dry which is a plus, but he is trying to work exactly like his dad which will be a long term problem

I don't think there "has to be that time" at all. Rightly or wrongly, I don't think it will ever happen. If forced at gun point to pick who would be the most likely of this bunch I'd say Nakamura, but we are talking about a fraction of a percentage of a chance.

This may be deserving of it's own thread, but does anyone else think The Shield may have had Los Misioneros de la Muerte like influence on the WWE? Obviously the difference in degree is massive, but I don't remember there ever being this many multi-man tag main events until The Shield popped up, got hot, and started having a great tio match every week.

Went to a WWE show tonight. Sent in a note to Meltzer on it and tweeted throughout, but here is a rundown with some thoughts. First of all it occurred to me that there may have been five WWE events going on tonight. The Network is streaming content live at all times, Smackdown was on, there was an NXT taping with some of the main roster guys and gals (New Age Outlaws and Emma I know for sure), the show I was at, and I assume another split crew show based on how "thin" this card was. When you think about that it is insane that there are people who seriously talk about how the WWE is "in trouble" because business isn't at or near Attitude Era levels. Secondly I got a text from a friend who works in the building during the show. He said it was the best attendance at that building for a non-televised WWE show in years. I would guess that is right as there looked to be about 7 or 8 thousand in the building to me, maybe more. Every "sold" section of the building was at least three quarters full with the vast majority being ninety percent full or more. Cena merch was everywhere and before the show someone told me that the ticket sales took off when they announced Cena v. Orton Cage Match main event. Big E v. Ryback v. Fandango Ryback got a huge face pop on the way out which was amusing. Big E. was incredibly over. Fandago was awful in this match, but Ryback and Big E. both worked really hard and the crowd was into their exchanges. The psychology here was good an it ended up being a pretty decent match though Big E's finish looks even worse live than it does on t.v. Tyson Kidd v. Curtis Axel Someone in the crowd had a Tyson Kidd sign which was hilarious to me. The crowd actually stayed pretty hot for this which was surprising. This was not terribly smooth, but Axel impressed me by leaning in to all of Kidd's offense. Every time Kidd teased a Sharpshooter it got a big pop, but he never did lock in. He won clean with his blockbuster finish in a decent enough match. Sin Cara v. Alberto Del Rio Del Rio was actually really good at working the crowd with standard heel schtick in this, but when he originally came out the reaction was sad. Amazing to me that this was a guy who looked like a potentially huge star in the making just a few years ago. I like Hunico but he was sloppy here at times. Crowd popped huge for a Cara tope and this got better as it went along. Del Rio lost clean on a reversal out of an armbar attempt which tells you exactly how much value they see in Del Rio. Real Americans v. The Rhodes Brothers Pre-match promo from Zeb was awesome stuff with him doing all your staple cheap heat stuff (getting the name of the state wrong, bitching about booing, et) but mixing it up in an interesting way. Crowd was molten for him here, though they all chanted along with the "We The People" bit as well. This was a legitimately great match. I was there with an old friend and his son an it was fun to watch them gradually get hotter and hotter for this as the heat section built. This had a double FIP, with Cody going first and Goldy second. Lots of teased dissension on the Real Americans side throughout so you can see the break up coming all the way at this point (as if it was in doubt). Cesaro looked like he might have been holding back at first, but ended up putting in a great performance in the second half of the match. There were some awesome spots on the build to the hot tag, including a great one where Cody got knocked off the apron, Goldust finally made it to the corner and then ate a vicious running uppercut to the back from Cesaro. Earlier he had tried to leap over Cesaro to get the tag and ate an equally nasty uppercut to the head instead. Cody's hot tag was really good and the finish was pretty great. Swagger countered a disaster kick into an ankle lock and Cody was reaching for the ropes but Cesaro was on the floor pulling the rope out of reach. Goldy came running over and decked Cesaro out of the way, Swagger went to reach at him, Dustin hit him with the big fist an Cody hit the Cross Rhodes for the finish. Really awesome stuff. At intermission they were plugging the hell out of The Network but Justin Roberts is not a good pitch guy at all. There was no chatter in my section about The Network all night outside of me and my friend which surprised me. Wade Barrett v. The Miz Barrett cut a good pre-match promo, but got decked in the face by Miz who then cut a Zeb Colter level promo effectively telling Barrett that people like him needed to be rounded up and deported. Of course this got a massive pop. This was actually a good match, much better than I would have guessed. Nothing outstanding, or gripping, but Barrett worked stiff, they worked some good momentum changes an the finish with Miz diving off the top into a Barrett forearm looked good. The Bellas "beat" Aksana and Alicia Fox in a dance off next. This whole thing was really bizarre as they had a fan vote to see what sort of match it would be via twitter. The live crowd clearly wanted a match when asked, but the twitter choice was a dance off which lasted less than three minutes and was even less entertaining than it sounds. Randy Orton v. John Cena - Cage Match Cena got an unbelievable pop here. I have been going to wrestling shows for 27 or 28 years. I've been to WCW shows, ECW shows, ROH shows, NWA shows, WWE shows, random indies shows, et. Literally hundreds of shows I've seen live. And this was probably one of the ten loudest pops I've ever been a part of live. Cena ended up getting ambushed at the bell. He had his leg taped up and that played in some when he was trying to climb the cage in the match as Orton would throw these desperation punches and headbutts at it. I expected this to be a decent little 7-12 minute match, instead this went about 15-18 minutes, and they ended up delivering a tremendous match. They kept teasing big spots off the stage, which they never really delivered, but I actually loved that as all of the simple bumps into the cage were made to be all the more important as a result. They teased escape the cage finishes and finishes off of big moves. The two best teased were Orton crawling almost completely down the steps and out to the floor while locked in the STF, only for Cena to drag him back into the ring, and a great near fall on an RKO that the entire crowd fell for. Orton also kicked out of the AA. Finish was Orton throwing Charles Robinson into Cena and hitting him with a ball shot before crawling out of the cage. The heat for the match was completely off the charts and kids were literally crying all around me when Cena lost. Cena was so insanely over it had the feel of watching prime Bruno in MSG. Post-match Orton tried to attack Cena with a chair and Cena beat back his attack. He ended up cutting a promo in the ring saying he had been diagnosed with a groin injury from Monday's attack and was told to take the weekend off but said "hell no." The crowd ate all of this up, and the show ended with massive "Cena" chants. Overall the show was very good with two great matches and no real stinkers unless you count the dance off. It's really amazing to go to a show like this as you see first hand why it would be completely insane to turn Cena heel without having an obvious heir apparent in place.

My point was more that he has been doing exactly what you described for while. Having said that you could argue Christian had a similar run a few years back. Hardy a year before that. Both in ECW. Rey in 09 had a very similar run. In some ways Cesaro's run feels like a bigger deal because his adaptability is incredible and those other guys - while great - are more formulaic in certain ways. But I don't think it's unusual for a WWE guy in this era to have an incredible run like this. What's unusual is the way Cesaro has done it.

He's been doing this for over a year.

Very good show over all. I have detailed thoughts on the entire enterprise but it's going to take me a few minutes to gather my thoughts.

My problem ended during hbk talking. No problems for main so far

I've had plenty of bad experiences with customer service lines, but nothing even close to this prolonged. Perhaps I'm simulate the luckiest man alive.

That might be the most ridiculous thing he's ever said

I don't believe that story for a second, and this is coming from someone who has to deal with a very poor company customer service line pretty regularly.

My dad calling me at work last night to mark out about a completely random ECW match he found while searching for Terry Funk matches. My boss who is a nominal fan at best, watching WM III on his tablet during his break. Someone else who doesn't have cable, and normally follows only from youtube clips, coming into work to tell me that they watched a "dark match" (meaning one of the MSG house shows) and loved it. This was the stuff I was hearing/seeing after day one from non-hardcore fans. All of this is a great sign for the WWE.

I'll stop taking this thread off topic, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Titan v. Averno from 12/1/13. I can't remember if you watched or commented on that match at the time.

I'd be curious to hear what makes Zayn's offense/spots terrible by comparison to the offense/spots of Titan in the Virus match. I actually like Titan for the kind of worker he is, and historically have been nowhere near as high on Generico/Zayn as many people, but for the life of me I can't fathom how someone could view Titan's work as "fine" and Zayn's work as embarrassing/awful in the two matches in question.

I like the Sheamus Main Event match as much, or maybe more than the Cena match, but other than that it's the best Cesaro/Claudio match I can remember seeing. I didn't think the stretch run was nearly as video gamish as something like Cena v. Bryan from last year (a match I really liked, but was maybe the most counter happy/momentumless WWE match I've ever seen), and in fact I thought a lot of the work done played off of things that had happened in previous tag matches these guys were in, even if it i is possibly incidental. I do want to watch the match back to back with the Wyatts v. Shield match and Titan v. Virus in a few months though to see if it was a case where the real time reaction inflated the match. At the moment I'd rate it behind the trio, but clearly ahead of Titan v. Virus (which had a second fall comeback from Titan that was vastly worse than anything in either of those matches) in my MOTY depth chart

Some of us have been arguing that WWE produces more quality week-to-week wrestling than any company in history for about eight years..

Carlos Colon is the master of the barbed wire match, completely incredible in that setting even against middling/poor opponents.

There is literally no one on earth I want to see wrestle less than 2014 HHH. I knew the match with Bryan was coming, and I'm sure they will work hard to make it compelling, but I have absolutely no interest in seeing it.

I will be watching WCW Greed tonight after all

Honestly this is the most confusing things I've ever seen. I have no clue if I am signed up for the network or not. I am terrified to keep trying because it's obvious that the WWE has no clue what's going on, and I see zero reason to believe I wouldn't be charged for every attempt.

I have filled out all this shit a few times and it doesn't go through. I have no patience for this, so maybe I should just continue to not give the WWE my money.

I want to note that one of the reasons the Wyatts and The Shield was so great was precisely because it included those "nods" Loss talked about. The tease of the Rollins going through the table with the triple power bomb? A nod to The Shields M.O. Ambrose getting taken away from the action and Rollins getting taken out? A nod back to the way The Shield won their very first match in the promotion. Reigns being left to face the "numbers game?" An obvious nod as well. I didn't get that vibe at all from the Chamber, though I did enjoy the hell out of it. To be honest I saw the Chamber as a pretty meat and potatoes match, with guys filling time by beating the shit out of each other in fun, violent and interesting ways, until the inevitable overbooked finish. That sounds a lot more negative than I mean it to be, because I did enjoy the match a great deal, but I agree that it's only the third best match of the week, and I'm fairly certain their are more than a hundred WWE matches in history I think are better.

I really enjoyed the Chamber, but it wasn't even my favorite match on the show, nor was it my favorite Chamber match of all time. I have to say I was kind of surprised to see that Loss even like the match, let alone that he rated it that highly.

I actually liked Del Rio v. Batista, but at this point they pretty much have to make Big Dave the official corporate champion or he will end up being the biggest waste in recent memory

I don't disagree with any of that and don't want it to come across like I'm dogging the match. I called it my MOTY too by the way. But I didn't like the part of the match they worked like a traditional tag. It was worked really really well, but I thought it was so orderly that it was out of character for everyone involved. Shield and Wyatts have been involved in far more normal tags than brawls. This reminded me of one of those Choshu's Army multi-man matches