Childs

Regal absolutely could have adapted to working in big main events. He just didn't. Completely agree on Liger. I don't put him in this category, because he was as much an ace as he could be in his context. I almost think of NJ juniors and NJ heavies as linked but separate promotions. The juniors even had their own big shows.

Regal takes the prize for me in this category. Few have ever been as good match to match, but he wouldn't have a shot at cracking my top 20, because he didn't work the kinds of era- or promotion-defining matches pulled off by the guys I'd rank ahead of him. Will and I had this conversation recently, and I know he disagrees. As for some others ... Fuchi and Kikuchi come to mind. You can't be any less featured than the All-Japan juniors. Sano wrestled in a few main events but never consistently as far as I know. Hase was never really a main eventer; he only got one shot at the IWGP title, I think. Mysterio verges on this category, doesn't he? Clearly an all-timer and a draw, but he's rarely been more than an upper mid-carder with WWE.

Ditch, how do you rate the Kobashi-Akiyama from December vs. the Misawa match? Watched it on the treadmill this morning. Akiyama's respective performances carried a lot of the same virtues. Kobashi worked "bigger" than Misawa, in part because he was ultimately going over and in part because he was Kobashi. I guess that match had a little more fat on it than the Misawa match, with a finish that was less clearly memorable in the narrative of these guys' careers.

You know, I thought it was an excellent match with Akiyama delivering a performance that made him seem worthy of taking the leap. But it didn't quite stir me on that classic level. Misawa wrestled a smart, generous match; he just didn't work at the peak of his powers.

I think I'm going to try to get a ballot in. One thing that has struck me in watching a few matches from early 2000: All-Japan was still cranking out quality wrestling despite its impending demise. I really enjoyed Kawada-Kobashi, Kawada-Vader, Kawada-Misawa, Misawa-Akiyama and Kobashi-Takayama. It's not like any of those would push for a top 50 spot in the '90s but that's still plenty of good stuff for a five-month period. I could see most of those making my list of 100.

The big matches tended to be native vs. foreigner before the '80s. Choshu's Army was certainly revolutionary in making a native vs. native feud the center of a promotion, and it did huge business. The reaction to Choshu was interesting. He generated tremendous emotion, but a lot of it was positive, perhaps from fans who identified with the frustration of being stuck in place in a rigid society. I'm no expert in Japanese culture, so perhaps someone else can offer a more nuanced take on the reaction. But he certainly wasn't a pure heel, more like Steve Austin in '97, if you're searching for a U.S. comparison.

1) It's not all in ring, though that's the emphasis. Two of the most important angles/feuds of the '80s -- Choshu vs. New Japan establishment and Tenryu vs. Jumbo in All Japan -- began with rebel figures abandoning their former partners in the middle of tag matches. You see a lot of partners becoming rivals after the junior member gets too big to exist in the ace's shadow. Hierarchy is probably the most important thing to keep in mind as a newbie. Many of the angles are about young guys trying to build steam to take on the top stars. Sometimes, that happens abruptly, but often, it's built slowly, through interactions in six-man or tag team matches. When the new generation took on Jumbo in early '90s All Japan, you often saw the next Triple Crown challenger get some particularly hot interactions with him in the weeks before a championship match. 2) Not much emphasis on promos. The big angles usually happen in or around matches. 3) Run-ins aren't super-common, but they have played roles in a few big feuds. Stan Hansen made his All-Japan debut as a guy standing at ringside for a tag league match between the Funks and Snuka/Brody. Needless to say, he got involved, and Hansen vs. Funks was one of the promotion's hottest feuds for the next two years. Interference also played a part in some of the Choshu's Army stuff, both in New Japan and All Japan.

It's not just you; I've seen Choshu described as a go-go-go worker in several places over the years. I guess the idea is that, compared to Japanese main eventers of the past, he preferred working an intense 15 minutes to a slow-building 30. While that's true, he's not what I think of as a go-go-go worker. He didn't try to cram a ton of shit into his big matches or blow past what should have been key moments. Quite the opposite. Toyota epitomizes the go-go-go worker to me. She fetishized relentless pace and offensive stamina. But there have been a ton of others, including whole promotions such as Dragon Gate and PWG.

Finally got around to that Lucero-Hechicero match today and boy was it great. Just an incredible display of skill in the first fall and then a ton of drama in the third, stemming from a batshit insane bump by Hechicero. I'm still catching up on other lucha and Japanese stuff, but it deserves a place right up there with the Summerslam matches, Ohno-Regal, etc. Dylan or others, what are the must-see matches in the Casas-Rush feud? Looks like the 6/28 trios is the peak to date?

I think he's gone to several tapings in his area in recent years. When he does, he usually includes a section in the newsletter comparing live impressions to watching on TV.

You'd see a form of babyface control when the younger All-Japan guys worked Jumbo. Not a classic face-heel dynamic, of course, but they were working as spirited underdogs. I'm thinking of the 3/9/88 Tiger Mask match and the 10/24/91 Kawada match. in which the younger guys used a lot of headlocks to manage/control Jumbo, who would obviously destroy them going toe-to-toe. The ultimate goal was different, with hierarchy taking precedence over good vs. evil. But it struck me as a variant of babyface control. I feel like Steamboat worked a fair amount of headlock/arm control sequences as well, though perhaps fewer late in his career. I think he did them to demonstrate he could outwrestle the heels in a straight-up context.

I'd be game to do a puro pod.

And still no one has stepped in to make a case for Tanahashi. Does the man have no fans on this board?

I would honestly be interested in reading an intelligent rendering of Tanahashi's case as one of the best guys in the world. I've never thought he was irredeemably awful, just really uninteresting for a guy who's routinely described as the best of the best. He's the clear ace of a fairly hot promotion, so he's obviously doing something right for somebody. I just never see it.

Yeah, Satanico got a bit overshadowed by all the Dandy praise. But he'd be at worst top five and quite possibly No. 2 on my best wrestlers of 1990 list. He was excellent in both trios and singles throughout the year and after the '80s set, I wouldn't be surprised if I have him in my top 20 all-time.

Something like 6/9/95 is definitely richer if you have some sense of the Misawa-Kawada dynamic, and I'm all for people going back and watching everything. I just wouldn't want someone who's curious about Japanese wrestling to avoid diving in because of some belief that he/she must know EVERYTHING to appreciate anything. I started watching fairly haphazardly and was able to backfill as my appreciation deepened. And now, god help me, I've seen every New Japan and All Japan match that made tape in the 1980s.

Yeah, but we have hardly any tape of their work. He's obviously not rating the biggest lucha stars.

I agree with OJ; there's no use in beating your head against the context wall. When I decided to get into Japanese wrestling seven or eight years ago, I read jdw's '90s pimping posts and some other threads at DVDVR, and then I just started watching the most acclaimed stuff. As Jerry said, it's not that hard to gain a feel for the most important wrestlers and rivalries. For one thing, they remained pretty consistent in NJ and AJ, with pushes of new stars developing very slowly. I mean, if it bothers you not to understand every word of commentary, that might be a problem. But there's not a good way around that. If you want to dive into the '90s, the yearbook threads here are a good resource and give a real sense of how things developed. Also, there are a ton of people here to field questions.

God, Vince is great biography fodder. Interesting business narrative, tons of color, lots of facade to try and work around. Wonder if anyone will ever take a big swing on that one?

I hadn't watched this in a long time and went in hoping to find something redeeming. But no, the criticism is merited. Misawa gave a tuned-out performance and Kawada a nonsensical one. The armwork from Kawada was fine in theory, but they pushed it too long for it to be meaningless, yet not far enough for it to carry real weight. We didn't get any kind of great, layered comeback from Misawa. He was either on or off. And Kawada made some really strange decisions, like following a string of head drops with a submission attempt on the arm he hadn't worked. The crowd even shit on that one. Anyway, despite all the punishment to his neck, Misawa never seemed in danger of losing. The finishing stretch, with Kawada, trying to survive, was pretty good. But even that felt like a lower-quality version of something they'd already done. Definite low point in their great rivalry.

They delivered about 3/4 of a great match. I liked the dynamic of Kanemoto stalking Samurai with kicks and submission attempts and Samurai trying to be opportunistic with his offense. But at some point, Sammy popped right up from a big Koji move and went straight into his comeback without selling. And it was like a switch had flipped. After that, they went all highspots, with no sense of pacing or meaning. I don't much like Kanemoto as a flyer; he was better at playing a nastier, more grounded counterpoint. I agree with Loss that it's still a good match but what a disjointed experience.

Love that New Japan card.

He's not a genius; he's a shrewd man of immense personal force.

I had no idea what the fuck was going on a lot of the time, but this was an entertaining bit of mayhem. Tajiri delivered a spirited performance as the one really athletic guy in the match. And I enjoyed seeing '80s relics Kimura and Ishikawa as the tough veterans. The Tajiri-Kimura fight on the outside was probably my favorite sequence, in part because they're guys I know really well from other settings. Glad this made the set.

This was really good, and I'm surprised how much I've liked the Liger-Koji stuff from this year. Kanemoto wrestled with less attitude but more focus than he demonstrated in their February match. And I liked the way they paid that off, with Liger selling that his leg was too weak for him to mount the kind of sustained finishing run he used to win on 2/16. You still had the slight problem of Liger's offense looking a lot nastier than all of Koji's non-kick stuff. But they found a way to advance the rivalry regardless.