Childs

Some people seem to like the matches with Steamboat, but I haven't seen them in a while. Are they just all Steamboat? Not that that would be surprising. I hated those matches. Worst Steamboat feud ever.

I know I've seen a full 60-minute version of Jumbo-Choshu, but I can't remember where if it's not on the Classics. Maybe on a commercial tape called Jumbo Legend? Or on the G+ Classics as opposed to Samurai? EDIT: I checked and it looks like the version we watched when working on the '80s set was, in fact, from the Jumbo Legend comm. tape. Vol. 3, disc 1. There's some other cool stuff on there if you can track it down, like the interpromotional match with Rusher Kimura from 1976.

I think it'll be worth having more Joshi discussion come the '93 and '94 podcasts. Hard to avoid talking about some of the most acclaimed matches in the world, especially given how highly Loss rated them.

Yeah, it exists in full on Classics.

It's not bad. But a 60-minute singles match just wasn't ideal for Choshu. There was a lot of down time. It won Tokyo Sports MOTY though, so if you become interested in Choshu's Army, it's worth watching.

Yes, 11/4/85. Honestly though, the tags are what you want from that feud.

Old Andre was a really smart, expressive worker who knew how to get around his limitations. Younger Andre, say pre-1983, was an unbelievable force of nature. He was just as charismatic but with exceptional agility for a man his size. He was one of the stars of the New Japan DVDVR set. The Hansen match from '81 and the Killer Khan match from '82 are two of my favorites from the '80s. If we had more '70s Andre on tape, he might be widely regarded as a great worker. Based on what I've seen, he was.

Can I vote Arn? Absolutely. I felt a little bad about not mentioning him after I posted. He'd be No. 3 for me.

One of the questions I can never resolve in my own mind is whether Morton or Eaton was the greatest U.S. tag team wrestler of all time. Do you give Morton more credit for lugging Gibson or do you give Eaton more credit for being great with multiple partners? Do you like Eaton's offense or Morton's selling/fire? It's one where my answer changes repeatedly.

That's what I meant. Sorry.

I give him credit for booking a promotion that built a truly loyal, long-term audience, even if I have loathed most of my experiences with it. As a wrestler, he can be overly self-aware, which would be similar to my criticism of the whole Chikara product. But he's technically very good and has appeared in some great matches. I'm thinking of the 2009 KOT match with Saint and Skayde against Danielson, Claudio and Dave Taylor and the 2009 tag with Ricochet against Danielson and Claudio. Also the trios we saw live in Delaware where he matched up with Negro Navarro. He wasn't the best guy in any of those matches but certainly held his own. His 2011 blowoff with Kingston was very good as were some of his matches with Hero.

Do we have a sense of how many voters take their HOF selections seriously? Or more specifically, how many would go beyond their gut impulses (that guy was a star!) to read something like Dylan's Patera research?

I have never quite gotten the love for this as a match. As others have said, it was a tremendous event with one of the best crowds in WWE history. The Hart Foundation's entrance was as captivating as anything in the match. All of the stuff with Austin clicked. But god, when Austin wasn't there, the match just died. At least half of it featured wrestling of the meh, Raw-main-event variety. Tim compared it to the Slamboree match, but I thought that featured more energetic work with better build to the big spots. Shit, give me Kevin Greene over '97 Jim Neidhart any day of the week. The yearbook context made me appreciate this more than ever as a spectacle. The match itself? Still not buying.

I loved all the shenanigans around this match, especially the bit with Goto's second cutting Tenryu's boot and Tenryu kicking the shit out of Goto with his bare foot. What I've always liked about Goto is his ability to come off as a straight-up, ass-kicking tank in the middle of all the spectacle that comes with FMW. He certainly did that here. He's one of the last people I'd want splashing me from the top. And Tenryu was great selling the beating, then finding a new level of nastiness with his comeback. This was all I wanted from the pairing.

I was actually surprised they moved into the high flying so quickly. You usually don't see Santito hit his tope in the first fall. But in this case, it created a cool sense of urgency -- a lucha title match on amphetamines. I didn't want the match to end when it did, but hey, at least we get more later in the month.

Regal absolutely could have adapted to working in big main events. He just didn't. Completely agree on Liger. I don't put him in this category, because he was as much an ace as he could be in his context. I almost think of NJ juniors and NJ heavies as linked but separate promotions. The juniors even had their own big shows.

Regal takes the prize for me in this category. Few have ever been as good match to match, but he wouldn't have a shot at cracking my top 20, because he didn't work the kinds of era- or promotion-defining matches pulled off by the guys I'd rank ahead of him. Will and I had this conversation recently, and I know he disagrees. As for some others ... Fuchi and Kikuchi come to mind. You can't be any less featured than the All-Japan juniors. Sano wrestled in a few main events but never consistently as far as I know. Hase was never really a main eventer; he only got one shot at the IWGP title, I think. Mysterio verges on this category, doesn't he? Clearly an all-timer and a draw, but he's rarely been more than an upper mid-carder with WWE.

Ditch, how do you rate the Kobashi-Akiyama from December vs. the Misawa match? Watched it on the treadmill this morning. Akiyama's respective performances carried a lot of the same virtues. Kobashi worked "bigger" than Misawa, in part because he was ultimately going over and in part because he was Kobashi. I guess that match had a little more fat on it than the Misawa match, with a finish that was less clearly memorable in the narrative of these guys' careers.

You know, I thought it was an excellent match with Akiyama delivering a performance that made him seem worthy of taking the leap. But it didn't quite stir me on that classic level. Misawa wrestled a smart, generous match; he just didn't work at the peak of his powers.

I think I'm going to try to get a ballot in. One thing that has struck me in watching a few matches from early 2000: All-Japan was still cranking out quality wrestling despite its impending demise. I really enjoyed Kawada-Kobashi, Kawada-Vader, Kawada-Misawa, Misawa-Akiyama and Kobashi-Takayama. It's not like any of those would push for a top 50 spot in the '90s but that's still plenty of good stuff for a five-month period. I could see most of those making my list of 100.

The big matches tended to be native vs. foreigner before the '80s. Choshu's Army was certainly revolutionary in making a native vs. native feud the center of a promotion, and it did huge business. The reaction to Choshu was interesting. He generated tremendous emotion, but a lot of it was positive, perhaps from fans who identified with the frustration of being stuck in place in a rigid society. I'm no expert in Japanese culture, so perhaps someone else can offer a more nuanced take on the reaction. But he certainly wasn't a pure heel, more like Steve Austin in '97, if you're searching for a U.S. comparison.

1) It's not all in ring, though that's the emphasis. Two of the most important angles/feuds of the '80s -- Choshu vs. New Japan establishment and Tenryu vs. Jumbo in All Japan -- began with rebel figures abandoning their former partners in the middle of tag matches. You see a lot of partners becoming rivals after the junior member gets too big to exist in the ace's shadow. Hierarchy is probably the most important thing to keep in mind as a newbie. Many of the angles are about young guys trying to build steam to take on the top stars. Sometimes, that happens abruptly, but often, it's built slowly, through interactions in six-man or tag team matches. When the new generation took on Jumbo in early '90s All Japan, you often saw the next Triple Crown challenger get some particularly hot interactions with him in the weeks before a championship match. 2) Not much emphasis on promos. The big angles usually happen in or around matches. 3) Run-ins aren't super-common, but they have played roles in a few big feuds. Stan Hansen made his All-Japan debut as a guy standing at ringside for a tag league match between the Funks and Snuka/Brody. Needless to say, he got involved, and Hansen vs. Funks was one of the promotion's hottest feuds for the next two years. Interference also played a part in some of the Choshu's Army stuff, both in New Japan and All Japan.

It's not just you; I've seen Choshu described as a go-go-go worker in several places over the years. I guess the idea is that, compared to Japanese main eventers of the past, he preferred working an intense 15 minutes to a slow-building 30. While that's true, he's not what I think of as a go-go-go worker. He didn't try to cram a ton of shit into his big matches or blow past what should have been key moments. Quite the opposite. Toyota epitomizes the go-go-go worker to me. She fetishized relentless pace and offensive stamina. But there have been a ton of others, including whole promotions such as Dragon Gate and PWG.

Finally got around to that Lucero-Hechicero match today and boy was it great. Just an incredible display of skill in the first fall and then a ton of drama in the third, stemming from a batshit insane bump by Hechicero. I'm still catching up on other lucha and Japanese stuff, but it deserves a place right up there with the Summerslam matches, Ohno-Regal, etc. Dylan or others, what are the must-see matches in the Casas-Rush feud? Looks like the 6/28 trios is the peak to date?

I think he's gone to several tapings in his area in recent years. When he does, he usually includes a section in the newsletter comparing live impressions to watching on TV.