Childs
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Everything posted by Childs
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Amen.
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I don't think anyone is asking Phil to rank Davey Richards or Joe to rank Jerry Lawler or me to rank Manami Toyota. Vote your bliss, even if that means rejecting whole genres of wrestling.
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Mark Rocco vs. Marty Jones 6/30/76 vs. Steve Grey 10/11/78 vs. Pete Roberts 5/28/80
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I was there live for Aries' Dec. 2007 ROH title challenge against Nigel, and it was one of the best matches I've ever seen in person. I also remember seeing him in an elimination match with a bunch of lesser guys at Chikara's 2009 King of Trios, and he was a total pro, holding an unimportant match together. So I think well of him, especially after he managed to make TNA interesting for a brief stretch. Excellent offensive wrestler, has brought personality to his work in multiple character guises, carries a long list of very good matches. I doubt I'll list him, but it's not a ridiculous idea.
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Watched Cortez vs. Grey from 1981 last night and I really undersold that match when I first reviewed it a few years ago. They brought a tremendous sense of struggle to the grappling, with Cortez going after Grey's arm like a pitbull and Grey responding by getting a little more chippy than he usually would. I loved the sense the match could get out of control at any moment, even as they showcased great technical skill. The ending left a bad taste the first time I watched it, and it was still shit. But overall, the match bolster's each guy's case for this list.
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That's an interesting take. I agree Akiyama's All-Japan work would get him a decent spot on its own, but it's really his endurance over the last 14 years that will give him a shot at my top 30-40.
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Conveying a "great desire to win and overcome the odds" requires skill. Selling something with facial expressions and movements is a very important part of pro wrestling. It's not heart. Kobashi has heart, but if his passion translated into being a subpar professional wrestler instead of a great one I wouldn't care about him. I don't think it was hard to interpret that Alan and Joe were describing Sekimoto's ability to convey passion in his work. Your refusal to see that just comes off as obtuse and dickish. If you want to make an actual argument about Sekimoto's flaws, make it.
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Heart? What do you mean by heart? His willingness to withstand a certain amount of Chops? I don't think "heart" is a quality that really matters in pro-wrestling. Really? Conveying a great desire to win and overcome the odds isn't important in pro wrestling? Everyone from Ricky Morton to John Cena to Kenta Kobashi would beg to differ. Feel free to be skeptical about Sekimoto. I'm skeptical about him myself. But that's a silly statement.
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Laser Loss is dead. Does that mean we're done with personal improvement?
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Honestly, I haven't watched many of his matches with a focus on his performance. It's more a case of I'd watch the few BJW matches that made Will's MOTYC sets, find them to be overkill and not dig beyond that. But I'll do another go-round, given how much he's loved by you and others.
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At least tepid and curious instead of tepid and dismissive
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I'd like to read a Sekimoto supporter's concise case for why he's good. I ask because I haven't been able to get into any of the pimped BJW matches from recent years.
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Rewatched the match last night, and I'm not sure I get this take on it. Misawa took a horrific beating to make Morishima look good in winning the title. Of course he fired the elbow; that was the only gun he had that could keep this young bull off him. But the story of the match clearly seemed to be a tired champion who couldn't muster one more comeback against the latest young killer. What else should Misawa have done? He went above and beyond to give the best performance he could under the circumstances.
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Ikeda did harrowing violence like nobody else, that's for sure. Anyhow, I went and watched the Ikeda-Greco OJ mentioned. Really good, tight match. Ikeda probably worked from underneath more than usual, though not on the level of Ishikawa in his '98 and '08 classics with Greco. BTW, Greco was an amazing talent; I need to do a focused watch of his BattlArts work to see if he's a guy I might vote for.
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I watched Grey vs. Myers from 11/20/75 last night and it was absolutely spectacular. Those guys were phenomenal athletes--quick, deft, balanced, fluid. And the wrestling was just beautiful to watch, though it never got nasty, like some of my other favorite WOS bouts. Right now, I'm thinking Grey could easily crack my top 30, and Myers could make my list as well. I'd encourage anyone who's voting to give this stuff a taste, especially given how readily it's available on YouTube.
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ROH did get a little better about that as time went on, but yeah, the constant MOTY talk/ethic on the early shows was dreadful.
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I watched the Martin match last night, and Marino was indeed quite a stylish wrestler. But I can see what you mean about the matches not taking off past a certain level. He certainly seemed skilled enough to be a top 100 candidate, even if there's not enough (or any) prime footage to make the case.
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I'm a little puzzled that you're so bothered by this, especially given that these discussion threads have been great for the site. It's the essence of humanity to attempt to organize information that's vastly beyond our capacity for understanding. AKA it's fun to rank things!
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[1998-08-02-NJPW-G1 Climax] Shinya Hashimoto vs Kazuo Yamazaki
Childs replied to Loss's topic in August 1998
Just to be clear, too, this was the G1 Final. I know the listings are a little confusing. -
I need to rewatch Slaughter's performances in the aforementioned great matches because honestly, he's never stuck in my mind as a great wrestler. I see the elements others describe and I like the acclaimed matches. It's just never all added up.
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OJ, what are your favorite Mike Marino matches? I know you like him as a worker, but he doesn't show up a ton on your great Euro matches list.
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I've come to hate ECW. I don't even know what this was supposed to be. It's hilarious that Heyman identified ECW with post-punk music, because this was the most bloated crap imaginable. It's like the worst possible hair metal in somebody's out-of-touch idea of punk clothing. And from now on, I'm skipping any segment involving Tommy Dreamer. One of the least likable babyfaces in wrestling history.
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[1998-08-02-ECW-Heatwave] Bam Bam Bigelow vs Taz (Falls Count Anywhere)
Childs replied to Loss's topic in August 1998
That spot going through the ramp looked so dopey, but I did like Taz emerging from the wreckage and running Bam Bam down to throw the choke on him. -
[1998-08-02-ECW-Heatwave] Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka
Childs replied to Loss's topic in August 1998
I was going to slag this, but you know, they actually did a really good job building to the huge spot where Tanaka power bombed Awesome through a table. And then they didn't overstay their welcome. That crazy spot actually led to the finish. Awesome was such a weird wrestler. No matter what Joey Styles said, he actually looked shitty doing most of those high spots. But he knew what got him over and didn't attempt to be anything he wasn't. So I have to give him credit for that, even if I don't enjoy watching him.