tomk

HBK was gone from RAW for almost ten months this year, HHH for nine. Kane was on Smackdown (Edge recently joining him). It has never been fresher. It's unclear that they have any idea of what to do with it and there are points where (unlike the Cena v Khali period) it felt like it was in a holding period waiting for a DX return to clean house on everyone. But that isn't the case anymore.

I have tickets to a Harlem Globetrotters game in Feb, and am thus sorry to see the lessons of 2006 board gone.

Yeah once you get past the winners last year including Tanahashi and Doi, look back at the criteria. This isn't best draw or best worker. This is combination of positive contribution, box office and strong match quality. Dr Wagner is a guy who probably should win most charismatic and on a stacked AAA card it's pretty clear that he is the biggest star in lucha. But he really hasn't had the strong match quality this year. Not particularly impressed by Mistico match quality this year and well this year was more about booking Volador Jr's heel turn and the elevation of Sombra than it was about Mistico. EMLL doesn't get enough credit for their booking since they don't do the type of week to week comic book coherence that net fans want, but that's all a seperate discussion. LA PARK is the AAA maineventer who actually delivers match quality. He feels like the guy who has the right combination of stuff for this category. He may be a really good candidate for Most Improved: This is segundacaida discussing him in a TV match in 2009: It is IWRG so it's possible that it's a different guy under Comando Negro mask. Assuming same guy, he has come a long way. And Dylan Really over Marafuji or Tanhashi?

Necro has had a bunch of high end stuff in JAPW and IGF this year. As to how a segundacaida contributopr ballot would look, I'm not sure. The observer awards are for observer subscribers and I have long since stopped my sub, Phil quit his sub earlier this year, I don't think Nick or SLLL have one any more. Neither Eric or Lee who I think both still have subs post here but I am sure if you asked both would be willing to give you a look at their ballot. Without putting a ton of thought into it: 1. LOU THESZ/RIC FLAIR AWARD- L.A. Park is only guy I can think of where the combination of draw and match quality would justify. Cena and Dr Wagner really haven't had the matches this year. Might be worth thinking about Rey but... 2. MMA MOST VALUABLE FIGHTER-Manny Pacquiao 3. MOST OUTSTANDING WRESTLER – Black Terry 4. MOST OUTSTANDING FIGHTER –Andre Ward 5. BEST BOX OFFICE DRAW-Manny Pacquiao 6. FEUD OF THE YEAR – Gringos Locos VIP v Cerebro/Terry 7. TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR – Dr Cerebro/Black Terry 8. MOST IMPROVED -Chris Masters (although a bunch of that started last year) 9. BEST ON INTERVIEWS-(a) John Moxley (2) CM Punk © Super Fly 10. MOST CHARISMATIC – (a)Kevin "Special K" Daley (2) Chico Che (3) Miz 11. BEST TECHNICAL WRESTLER -(a) Negro Navarro, (2) Joe Malenko, © Solar 12.BRUISER BRODY MEMORIAL AWARD – (a) Black Terry (2) Dr Cerebro, © Hijo Del Diablo (D) Necro 13.BEST FLYING WRESTLER - (a) Anthony Pettis , (2) Rey © Mascara Dorada 14. MOST OVERRATED - (A) Konan, (2) Edge, © Kane 15. MOST UNDERRATED - (A) Dave Finlay, (2) Chris Masters 16. PROMOTION OF THE YEAR--Top Rank Inc. 17. BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW- (a) IWRG, (2) WWE Superstars 18. PRO WRESTLING MATCH OF THE YEAR -either the 2/7 Cerebros v Gringos or the 3/7 one. The 3/14 one also worth a look as it had the bigger show atmosphere. I'd have to rewatch series. I still really love the Demus v Pierrothcito for the right to be fully respected as a man EMLL match and the 1/28 Navarro, Terry, Cerebro v Segura, Zatura, Solar match. 19. MMA MATCH OF THE YEAR - Old veteran on Oakland Bus 20. ROOKIE OF THE YEAR – SAMOT 21. BEST NON-WRESTLER PERFORMER- (A) Papa Briscoe, (2) That guy in AAA with the blue face paint and a straight jacket 22. BEST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER - Teddy Atlas 23. WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER- Mike Tenay 24.BEST MAJOR SHOW -3/14 Arena Naucalpan show with Dahani Jones CATEGORY B 1. WORST MAJOR SHOW OF THE YEAR -? 2. BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER -LeBell Lock 3. MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC - "I only met Lance Cade once" 4. WORST TELEVISION SHOW - Impact 5. WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR -Was Davey Richards v Shingo this year or last? If last then Davey Richards v Kenny Omega 7. WORST PROMOTION - Dragon's Gate 8. BEST BOOKER -who booked the first four months of IWRG this year? 9. PROMOTER OF THE YEAR - Bob Arum 10. BEST GIMMICK - Gringos Loco VIP or Papa Briscoe as Roughhouse Fargo 11. WORST GIMMICK -Konan 12. BEST WRESTLING BOOK - ?, There was an interesting article on Mataviejitas in Journal of Crime, Media and Culture. I thought it was deeply flawed but it was interesting. 13. BEST PRO WRESTLING DVD -DVDVR Texas set

I think the key point is "of his height". But how many others are even in the equation? Onscreen, looking at a legit 7' 300 lb dude (wearing those pants that cover his chicken legs) he's easier to be bought as a badass than a guy whose half his size. In the initial Diesel years and then after the disastrous babyface run, they were able to make him look like a killer. Nash then brought some of that with him to WCW, added the comedy schtick and drew ridiculous money. He wasn't playing chickenshit heel during the NWO years. Sure he's completely broken down now but to say Nash never drew money as a guy that was a "threat" is incorrect. Did not see any of the Diesel stuff live, but did get to watch lots of Nash in WCW stuff live. And I stand by my point. At his most succesful Nash had an aura around him but it wasn't an aura of toughness. Live he didn't give off the tough aura of either Oddities ear Kurggan or Giant Silva. Not physically threatening. Nash's Jimmy Valiant, I represent the street people charisma when booked properly gave him a main event aura but that wasn't physically tough or intimidating charisma. The "I'm too cool to be involved with your bullshit macho games" isn't guy chickenshit running from trouble, but at its most effective it has similar dynamic (guy who acts like he's too good/above the sillyness of the wrestling around him where the fans want to see face drag him kicking and screaming into that sillyness). The fans never did get that payoff, and Flair could run from Brody for an hour holding onto his belt. It worked for a while. But honestly Flair's chickenshit stuff was more about toughness than Nash's cool act. Nash not seeing that isn't exactly surprising. But it is lack of self awareness.

Some of this discussion may be going over my head as outside of Miz matches I haven’t watched a ton of WWE in last couple months ( so have really nothing to say about Seamus) and well I don’t watch shoots so haven’t seen Nash/Waltman thing. Still: -Yes I've seen kids still do the who would beat who discussion. -I’ve been really digging the Miz that I’ve seen lately. For a guy who started out doing Rock impressions, his mic work and in ring work now a days feels super Brian Christophery. He’s a guy who is easy to dislike , who you want to see beaten who has a bunch of signature spots which also work really well as signature missed spots. I think Morrison is really bad in the Taz chasing Corino role. But Miz is really good as guy you want chased. -In 1985, Randy Savage matches pretty much consisted of nothing but him beggin off, running and bumping until he was able to bonk opponent with scroll (bonking opponent with scroll wasn’t transition to heel offense it was finish where either he’d win or loose by DQ). A year or more of this made him appear tough. This is the old WWF has no strong heels crit. The counter argument to that criticism, is that while I may find that booking strategy to be dull, they’re very successful with it. At no point does Miz come across less tough than 80s WWF weak heels. He comes accross as tougher than "Ultimate Opportunist" Edge. -Real World/Road Rules challenge has very slowly transformed itself into a ridiculous Marine triathalon. It was always an event where you saw guys pushing themselves beyond their normal limits…but it has slowly transformed itself from a show where junkies and drunks push past their limits to a 14 mile race where the contestants cover themselves in tar at three mile point to make the heat worse for last 10 miles (where somewhere around 6 mile point they have to wade through a swamp while trying to remember the difference between Russian and Polish verb conjugation). If it was a choice between getting into a fight with 5’4 Derrick (not even CT) or Nash, I think most Tv fans would be far less intimidated by Nash. After last challenge flamboyant 6’ 200 lb Tyler is probably more intimidating an athletic challenge. Miz is from an earlier cycle when the competition was less athletic….but the transformation of the Challenge into a more and more strenuous athletic competition has been so smooth that I think people forget how unathletic it once was. And Miz isn’t hurt. -One of the points I made again and again when I was reviewing TNA, was that booking Nash (wether someone else booked him, or he booked himself) as tough and intimidating was always a mistake. When Nash is booked as tough and intimidating he comes off as clumsy and fragile. There are lots of ways to book Nash strong and to play to his strengths. But if you’ve seen him live, Nash may be the least tough or intimidating guys of his height. Shawn Kemp is more menacing. If he thinks that the period when he drew was a period where he had an aura of toughness around him, he has no self awareness.

The Vicious and Delicious team was probably the team that Bagwell brought the most to. They were two guys who worked better as a pair then they did on their own.

I want to say Bossman did good numbers opposite Rock in 2000. Everyone was doing decent numbers opposite Rock in 2000. Still you would have thought that Bossman would have done significantly worse numbers than Rock's more contemporary opponents. I want to say that he didn't.

It has been number of shows over 10,000 (ratings, buyrates, merch sales etc...not counting). Traditionally he has weighed 20,000 as a two to 10,000 as a one. This is the new weight adjustment that I'm curious about: He does reference the guy who was head of WWFs regional buisness untill a couple years ago as saying that the only guys who actually effected ticket sales were Sammartino, Hogan, Rock and Austin. and he makes the point about being part of a major brand. But there isn't any adjustment for it. 8. HHH (tied with the Sheik which is amusing) 14. The Rock 16.Undertaker 18. Steve Austin 28. Cena (tied with Pat Oconnor) 30. Shawn Michaels (tied with Dusty) 36. Kane 39. Kurt Angle (tied with Fritz) 47. Randy Orton (tied with Eddie Graham and Paul Orndorf) 50. Chris Benoit and Big Show (tied with Wilbur Snyder) are all in essentially for WWE gates this decade (99-09). I'm not Chris Harrington but my point was that for this to meaningful there should be a way to do draw value v replacement player (or v median). The Shawn numbers are pretty much all post comeback #s. Shawn is there for the same reason as Kane.

I wouldn't wish Von Erck on anyone. Meltzer is a guy who has provided a really important resource. It's the reason to criticize: I wish he wouldn't get caught up in some of his more ridiculous foolishness. I would hate to see him stuck in position of defending himslef against the kind of publicity that a Von Erck would bring.

Society as a rule judges pedophilia as being worse than political quackery. But even if you were a sexual libertine, if you're running a website where you regularly take shots at Vince Russo: you don't want to give Xavier von Erck an opening to come after you.

I mean on the one hand yes that analysis being applied to something like this is ridiculous. But on the other hand, I think looking at the Matt Farmer stuff outide of HOF season is useful. Allows people to talk about the flaws without being tied up in lobbying for their favorite HOF candidates. The following section seems new I'd be interested in knowing what the formula is for doing this as I don't remember that ever showing up in the classics analysis. but a vorp or value v. median guy would be real useful thing for the current era. This is followed by a more nuanced discussion of what it is to draw in different eras than what he normally says when discussing draws (although there is his normal shot at Backlund mixed in there).

I think that's Amy Lee

I didn’t want to ask you to transcribe podcasts. I didn’t want to ask you to transcribe podcasts. What has Coughlin said on podcasts that struck you as particularly smart. I don't have access to podcasts, and don't listen to podcasts in general. But I imaigne i that if you point to particular podcast dates I might be able to find a way to listen to them. Coughlin has never struck me as insightful writer but if that is the fault of the written form and he comes off better on radio, I am hoping you could point me to something. His technical breakdown of fights are amazing and his calling card, listen to the one he'll do GSP and Koscheck. So in summary: Rovert said that Snowden has a history of making false claims and that Snowden could learn something from Coughlin. When questioned to follow up on this he refused to list any false claims Snowden has made outside of some personal issue, and can’t come up with any examples of insightful written analysis by Coughlin. When given the opportunity to present an example of something that Coughlin has said insightful on a podcast (which is a format that I don’t think Snowden has used) instead of pointing to any particular analysis from the past rovert instead pointed to Coughlin’s analysis in the theoretical future. Like Nostradamus rovert knows that the smart Coughlin will come in the future. So yeah I think we should move on from the Snowden v rovert thing which was a distraction from the original two issues: A)Coughlin is obtuse: Everyone who has ever written about BJ Penn writes some variation of “the outcome depends on which Bj Penn shows up”, “BJ Penn sometimes comes into fights showing absolutely no fire”, yadda yadda.Couglin read where Snowden said that Penn was sometimes uninspired and somehow interpreted it as Snowden accusing Penn of deliberately throwing fights. B)The figure four board is a message board with a section devoted to leering pictures of underage girls: Here Coughlin is correct. It would be odd to get kicked off a website that has a section devoted to leering pictures of underage girls. what could you possibly do that would be more potentially bad for the website owner's reputation. Which brings up the larger point, that the figure four board is a message board with a section devoted to leering pictures of underage girls.

On some tape I have I remember there being spanish language advertisements for a New York Outlaw group that was running with Backlund v (I want to say) Graham as co -main with Colon v Tully and there may have been an Abby match too. do you have any idea who ran that and if it was before or after this experiment? PWUSA doesn't use Colon again till the December show and their in a match placed low on the card. They don't use Invader again either. -Oh yeah early twenties Maeda v 50+ Candians amuses me.

I didn’t want to ask you to transcribe podcasts. I didn’t want to ask you to transcribe podcasts. What has Coughlin said on podcasts that struck you as particularly smart. I don't have access to podcasts, and don't listen to podcasts in general. But I imaigne i that if you point to particular podcast dates I might be able to find a way to listen to them. Coughlin has never struck me as insightful writer but if that is the fault of the written form and he comes off better on radio, I am hoping you could point me to something.

Dude, I think you, me, and eight other people (who probably all post here) know that was Curtis Iaukea. Iaukea is pretty well known figure. The Dungeon of Doom angle was ridiculous but his role was memorable (not neccesarily a positive). His angle with Morales is the only real Pedro Morales storyline that I've ever heard repeated by older fans. In the nineties you had both a WCW rookie and an AJ rookie working gimmicked Iaukea relative gimmicks. I think Kriss is suggesting that new markets weren't big cities. Saving Hogan for big cities.

Is this one a joke too?: http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/6685/145/ Reads like it might be tongue n cheek, but not sure. The Won online search function isnn't that great of a search engine but you can find plenty of Coughlin there. What should I read?

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/11271/145/ http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/17300/ http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/17323/108 Coughlin's review of Total MMA where he found errors thus proving more knowledgeable?: http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/8770/

So I've read that Snowden article a couple times through now and have no idea how someone could read it as Snowden saying BJ Penn threw fights. What's the story here. Since becoming an MMA reporter what are the Snowden false claims? Uhh. I'm not a Snowden fan but where is the smart Coughlin writing? Was someone supposed to learn a thing or two from Coughlin's eulogy to Evan Tanner, his open letter to Fedor?

They don't? Is that accurate? The last sportswriter bio I read was on Lester Rodney, and well regularly lobbying for integration of baseball in thirties is definition of not understanding the “business”. But while there weren’t a lot of sportswriters pushing that line, my general sense is that mainstream sportswriting is built on the ideology that advocating for fairer conditions for competition is what is in the best interest of the “health of companies, the sport and the marketplace”. That "ideology" may be wrong, but that's the basic assumption behind most of it. My sense is that in early days of most sports leagues, sportswriters did make arguments that leagues needed best players even if they weren’t in the league. Fuck. Not just in early days. When I followed hockey regularly,I remember reading sportswriters pimping that the NHL needed this or that foreign player. And the NHL has been around for almost a century. People writing about college sports regularly complain about who is and isn’t in the BCS. Boxing is filled with this type of writing. There were boxing writers who were pushing for a Dempsey v Willis fight in the 20s, which is absolutely not ”understanding the business” as boxing was just starting to recover financially from having an African American regularly in title fights. My memory is Winky Wright was a guy who was pushed by boxing writers despite him not being attached to any of the big time boxing promoters. The whole point of boxing writers ranking fighters or keeping track of lineal champions is that it is in the best interest of the sport, the fans, the gamblers, etc if the best fighters fight (instead of just having the matchups that the promoters want).

Bumping after close to 4 years because I'd like to find this. I think it was on the old itscwrestling board which had a wildside and an Al getz talks indies subsection.

Maybe this belongs in lessons of 2006. Don't know if any of the other Jamie Dundee Springer episodes are up on the net. I had never seen "The Convict" character before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkB5fPGPD_4

Dave was replying to this statement which he pretty clearly didn't understand: So Dave's response to Koscheck being "real asshole" not "worked heel" is that heels aren't supposed to be contrived ironic wink-wink heels.

So I've been following Team Koscheck assistant coach Daniel Cormier's career since before he got into MMA. I was hoping someone would call into the WON show to complain that Comier works too much like Pez Whatley, and how if he wants to make it in the competitive MMA market he needs to work more like Shaska. Thanks