tomk

That is kind of my point. But my question would be: why is that such a bad thing? Would Rick Rude be as fondly remembered if he'd just been plain old Rick Rude? When they think of Rude, do people think of first, or do they think of the Iron Match match vs. Steamboat? I think it's a mistake to have GOAT-type arguments and restrict the criteria to in-the-ring alone. I mean for a start, does in-the-ring take crowd heat into account? Because for crowd heat during a match Hogan and Warrior smoke Dean Malenko, as do Rude and DiBiase. Why should the questions be restricted to: "did they have great matches?" and "did they draw?" For me, this is one of the classic problems with the so-called "smart" approach. I honestly believe that Ric Flair wouldn't be as highly rated as he is were it not for his persona, incredible mic-work and ability to get a reaction from the crowd. If he was just plain old Richard Flare during all those great matches, surely we'd think of him much more like a Backlund or a Dory Funk Jr. Who disagrees? Who agrees? I'm not sure what is meant here. The character Ric Rude portrayed in the ring was the same one he played on the mic. Ric Flair behaved in the ring the way you would expect the Ric Flair character to act in a ring. Dusty behaved in the ring the way you would expect the Dusty charact4er to act in the ring. Same is kind of true of Bugsy Mcgraw, Jimmy Valiant, Mr Wrestling II, and Bob Backlund. Irwin R Shyster didn't really come accross as a tax auditor in ring.

It could be argued that Pfeffer still figured out how to continuosly draw money from the 40s-60s even after that. And I think he's responsible for the Fargos act. So that clears him of everything.

The thing about the Wrath push was that he was given these long never ending squashes, where he would beat a guy for 7 plus boring minutes. Opponent would get less offense than Goldberg opponent (or even a Sid opponent)but Wraith would take forever to finish them.

Lawler has worked that match with Jimmy Hart and a half dozen fake Jimmy Harts. He's never made it go that long. My sense from watching it was that they didn't want Lawler v Hart but rather wanted to do rich man's Zbysco v poor man's Bischoff. I also get the sense that this is how they wanted to do Coach v Austin. This is how they lay these things out.

Yes, no way is Vince going to book him like an ace. In the U.S., Stan Hansen was the best working brawler in the 80s. In the U.S., Rocky Maivia was the biggest drawing brawler in the 90s. In a fantasy world where NJ could afford to bring in the Rock no one would say "Rock isn't getting the same kind of response as Stan Hansen. That's what's wrong with New Japan these days. They are forcing the the Rock to tone down his act and that's why he doesn't come off as recklessly violent as they allowed Hansen to look in the 80's". Mistico is a guy who had a bad backstage rap in Mexico too. But this really feels more like the CM Punk brags about his four star matches rep than anything else. It was never clear if CM Punk was an idiot who brought DVDs with him for other people to watch; or if he just mentioned a match once and the WWE lockerroom is built on reminding folks "anything you've accomplished outside of here has no value to us". Alberto Rodriguez, Ricardo, and I think they have a bunch of Mexicans and Puerto Ricans in developmental as well. But it doesn't take rubbing more than two people wrong to start a lockeroom rumor.

Someone failed to tell him that before being inducted into the HOF, Abdullah had gone out to the desert and tied himself to the riverbottom to pureify himself of all his bloodthirsty animal ways.

Are Dibiasse's skits and promos more or less memorable than Piper, Jake Roberts, Rude, Henning, Lawler, Dusty, Akeem the African Dream, The Grand Wizard, Heenan, Paul Bearer, Mr Mcmahon, etc?

I'm not saying he isn't a high flyer. I'm saying comparing his accomplishments/successes with that of Rey or Juve misses the entire point of who he is and what he does (or who they were and what they had done prior to U.S. run). Mistico wasn't the most spectacular highflyer in Mexico (nor was het he most spectacualr highflyer when he took his touring act to Japan), he was biggest (recent) main event draw in Mexico. Was not saying that he was Dusty Rhodes. I was saying something similar to what WildPegasus was saying in the Tiger Mask thread when he compared the appeal of TigerMask to that of Goldberg: guy whose appeal came from being booked as guy who was undefeatable.

My sense used to be keep the streak going, wheel him out every year for a walking tall match. Problems with that as I see it are: -Mania is the premier name WWE PPV show. It becoming too associated with Undertaker is a problem. Mania becoming the Taker PPV feels like something that needs to be separated. Ideally promotion is building Mania around their main storylines and not around Taker. -If you give Taker a big showcase match, it means that the shortcuts which could be used in the main event for the guys you are building the promotion around are denied them. -Taker is a guy who I like a lot but his matches often kill crowd heat. Even in an undercard match (something like Taker v Muhamad Hassan), the crowd is emotionally drained post match and it takes a ton for the crowd to get back into a show.

I do not have a current Won sub. What are Dave and Bryan's feelings on the way Mistico (sinCara) is being rolled out? Mistico/Sin isn't Rey or Juve. His appeal isn't the same as theirs was. There was a novelty to Rey v Juve or Psic in Japan (vis a vis the rest of the card) that there simply isn't for Mistico v Averno in Japan. Mistico's appeal wasn't about his flash it was about the way he was booked. He was a small guy who was booked as an ace. Not a guy who was booked as an underdog babyface, he was booked as a guy who wins all of his exchanges. He'll bump around for a while without really selling it before taking over in one fall, dominate the next before loosing in a real slip on a banana peel way and then dominate the third until the heel cheats to score a BS victory. Yes he is charismatic and hits his flashy stuff cleanly and consistently. It is a bad comparison (Dusty is a guy who often worked underdog from below), but Dusty Rhodes was really charismatic and had a great elbow drop that he hit well every time out but you take away the guys lining up to fly for the bionic elbow and you take away a ton. The appeal of Mistico was less about the flashiness and more being booked for everyone to fly from bionic elbow. He's going to be a hard guy to book in the WWE context. It is possible that Mistico is a guy who will learn to play face in peril (small underdog type role) but he doesn't have a ton of experience doing it. But complaining that he doesn't come off flashy enough or that he doesn't get the opportunities of Rey/Juve misses the point of who he is.

"Freak"

My memory is that they were not complete. Either something clipped out or joined in progress.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02...i#ixzz1D9JC0tAA

Alex Koslov got signed to the WWF after working as a jobber for a Del Rio Smackdown match last August. From Online World of Wrestling: I'm sure there have been a bunch since then.

With the purchase of Strikeforce this whole thing comes off even dumber. I'd still like to point out the ridiculous thing that always seems to be missing from Meltzer's UFC pieces: The UFC is owned by Las Vegas Casino Owners The Fertitas Brothers. The UFC is based out of Las Vegas. Las Vegas has no major sports franchise. No NBA team, no MLB team, no NFL team. And they don't want to be there. NFL spokesman Brian Mccarthy lobbying to prevent the expansion of legal sports betting outside of Nevada Supposedly the NFL bars TV networks that broadcast its games from talking about "point spread". They are in a position to do so. The UFC is run by casino operators and run out of Vegas. To complain about the use of an oddsmakers tool like independent ranking completely misses the point that the UFC's home is Vegas.

"connect with the crowd"

I don't know...alll youtube threads will have racist comments...and I assumed the villain of the epic beard fight was the woman on the front of the bus who tells the Black man not to avoid confrontation and to go back.

Sober. Less into intense musclemen than you. They start to blur together for me.

sorry got those guys confused. Yeah Nathan Jones was UPW guy who didn't actually get much better. But yeah the Australia PPVs and the Hashimoto matches are neat carry jobs.

They have used jobbers pretty regularly in the last decade. The Angle challenges and Masters challenges were all about jobbers. Deuce and Domino were set up in a ton of matches v jobbers. They will wheel out a bunch of joobers as needed. They just don't want to overdo the gimmick.

I was referring to "promo where demolishes"

To give Hunter fair credit, were I to give him a second moment, it would be the reaction he got on Raw that night when he came back from that injury. And number 3 would be that promo in the ring with Cena where he just demolished him. If this is the promo from DC, this was something I saw live and a pretty definitive HHH moment. They were promoting HHH v Cena ( with HHH as heel and Cena face) at same time they were teasing DX face reunion (of HHH saving HBK from Vine's anus) neither of which was getting a pop from crowd. Crowd chanting for Goldberg, Sid and Jarrett and general indiference to both Cena and HHH. Only when HHH mocked Cena's wrestling and Cena had to agree did anyone get a pop and you could see HHH using Cena (sacrificing the Mania main event face) to cement his own DX face turn. It was amazing. Even the drunkest of folks around me (we were all kicked out by secirity by night's end) picked up on it. I kind of was hoping that HHH went over Taker in Mania. They have really backed themselves into corner at this point. Mania is the definitive WWF show of year and it has become a show associated with one wreslter (it has become the Taker show). And Taker is a guy who while I like in ring a ton, is a guy whose matches kill a crowds heat. It takes a ton to get a crowd to recover from a Taker match. A couple years ago I would have said let him retire with streak intact or just bring him out every year to walk tall with Stagger Lee opposite some bumping heels...at this point I kind of think they need to seperate Mania from Taker. Whoever ends streak will be considered underserving....HHH is better suited to getting undeserving win than anyone else they have on the roster.

The thing about Kimala is that for the 80s despite the gimmick ( and I don't really care about "play the role " arguments) he was a big moveset highspot guy. The second rope splash was a big highspot let alone the top rope version. Nevermind the big leg drop, second rope corner axe handle, second rope middle of ring axe handle, standing splash, his bionic style elbow, Ringo Mendoza spin kick, etc. I think his stuff with Andre is worth tracking down, I'd also go through Midsouth set looking for his matches (I think his series with Terry Taylor may have unfortunately not made the set). He is at his best when he is doing workrate sprint brawl. He can be deadly dull when he moves away from the big moveset matches and does his more technical match built around nerve holds.

Shanghai Pierce and Tex slazenger were a ton of un in WCW and was dissapointed that none of their stuff v Cactus Jack made it to either 92 or 93 set as they were essentially 90s mobile heavyweights (your Kane/Mike Awesome FMW type) combined with actually having some southern tag psyche. Also think you would enjoy the HHH hog pen match. NWO Sting is fine in NJ. Nathan Jones has a bunch of this guy is being carried stuff in begining of his career. He was typical UPW guy in that he was monster gaijin who was better at eating bumps than at making his own offense look good (which makes you an awful monster gaijin) still thought Hashimoto did nice job working around him. And he was a guy who could fly around for Steiner (and because Jones is so big it looked real impressive). By end of his WWF run I thought he kind of had his shit together and enjoyed some of his new Legion of Doom tags and the Undertaker series.

Flair v Steamboat Rey v Eddie Mcmahon v Austin Heenan v Hogan Mankind v Undertaker isn't something that people may want to watch in reflection but at a time where Undertaker was a guy who didn't have feuds (he had build to match followed by match) kind of showed how actual feud can do a lot to revive and add years to a guys career.