Coffey

This was a comment on DVDVR that I thought would make a good topic for debate. Just a random comment in the middle of a reply but it really made me start to think: On the other end of the spectrum are guys that are usually in matches that you have low expectations for that leave you feeling that it was a lot better than anticipated. For me, John Cena was one of those guys for quite some time. Eventually, I just realized the dude is money when on Pay-Per-View. What are some examples of both that spring to your mind?

Yeah, I'm not seeing that at all either. If anything, Goldberg is underrated. Although if WWE tried to book Reigns like that, the crowd would probably chant "Gold-Berg, Gold-Berg!" at him like they did Ryback too.

Aye, that match was a pleasant surprise for me when re-watching a bunch of old WWF shows. Really blew me away. I know '92 is kinda the go-to default answer & it was the first one that popped into my head, but I do really like 1991. 2007 also had that kickass John Cena Vs. Umaga match.

Sami Zayn, if he were called up, I suppose. I'm all for Harper/Bryan though. Those matches will be great.

I think my 2015 will be very similar to my 2014. I was happy with 2014. I watched quite a bit and I'm continuing to consume more while working on my BWE list. I'll do the same in 2015 I imagine. As long as I have internet access & WWE Network, I'm pretty good. I'll watch the NJPW iPPVs and maybe sometime I'll try out the new AJPW Network. Not sure on that one yet. Definitely not setting myself up to break any promises but my buddy John has mentioned hitting some Indy shows as well. Happy New Years!

Honestly, after thinking about it some more, I am kind of glad the Authority is back. I mean, even when they were gone, they were pretty much running that angle anyway. We knew Cena would bring 'em back. Seth was still running around with J&J Security. Kane is still "corporate Kane" even after they were out of power. The Big Show is involved. So nothing really changed anyway. And as Loss has pointed out, it gets Stephanie McMahon with a microphone & her antics back on television. Honestly, I have a soft spot for Triple H too. No matter what he says, good or bad, or if he buries someone verbally or whatever, it always makes for good discussion post-show! So he has that going for him. I think he's a good wrestler too, despite that not being a big opinion around here these days. I'll say it: he'll definitely be on my Top 100 & I liked his Wrestlemania matches with The Undertaker. I've also come around on Daniel Bryan Vs. Brock Lesnar if they build to that at Wrestlemania. I'm actually pretty optimistic all around as we're heading toward the Royal Rumble. Even The Miz was busting his ass & got a "this is awesome" chant before his second match with The Ascension. Things aren't perfect but they never will be. There's always something that I can nitpick & complain about. At this point, I just have to accept WWE for what it is: there's always going to be an opening 20 minute promo that sets the pace for the show. There's always going to be a top babyface that's booked like a superhero to overcome all odds. I'm OK with that as I can just watch WWE for what they present & what other shows as well for what they give me. I'm really excited for Wrestle Kingdom 9, for example. Happy New Year, everybody. I look forward to chatting with y'all in 2015 & continuing to work on my BWE list. :-)

I think the "surprises" are going to be El Torito, The Bunny & Sheamus. I expect to see Orton but maybe not as an official entrant but going after Seth Rollins or something.

Half the roster wasn't there because they were double booked with a house show or some shit, some how. So they filled air time with promos & what not to make up for guys like Ambrose not being there. Also they've done Reigns Vs. Rollins before. On RAW on free TV even. It was during the build-up to Ambrose Vs. Rollins. Reigns beat Rollins clean in the middle with the Spear. Sept. 15th.

Someone on DVDVR said that had Edge gotten up after Cena reinstated the Authority & shown that he was in on it & sided with Seth it might have played better. I agreed with that. That would have been great!

How can Steph get her come uppance from a babyface male wrestler when there's no male on female violence on TV-PG? All she does is clown the wrestlers & not get anything done back to her, really. Daniel Bryan going to overcome the Authority to win the big one? Yeah, we already seen that...and don't really need a re-run.

I feel like someone was ribbing him and he had to kill like an extra three minutes of time so he just kept saying "John. John. John? John!" over and over. It was painful and long. And sucked.

Whatev, Chief, you can have that opinion, dawg, I won't fight it. I do hope they go w/ Bryan instead of Reigns. Reigns just isn't ready. I think this RAW is so weird cause half the roster isn't there as they were double booked some how. Orton/Rollins I imagine is still going to happen. Orton has returned on house shows, so I imagine he's coming back soon. Maybe tonight?

If that promo was Cesaro's chance to make a big statement, he fucking blew it by messing up his lines.

It was just too long. It had like three ready-to-play videos all mid-promo after coming back from a commercial break.

Maybe he's going to announce another surgery, so that he'll miss the Royal Rumble to try to stop people from chanting for him, instead of Reigns, at the Rumble?

I think the main event should be Roman Reigns Vs. John Cena© with The Undertaker retiring, not having a match & being the top billed inductee into the Hall of Fame. The Streak is over, so his 'Mania run should be too. It's all he had left. That's my line-of-thinking anyway. At this point, everything feels like fantasy booking as we really won't have a good idea of where they're going until the Rumble is over. The Undertaker is cool. His matches were cool. His Streak was cool. Now he's old, broken down, his matches aren't real fun (for me) to watch anymore & the Streak is over. So what's the point? Buys will be the same regardless of if he's on the card or not, in my opinion.

Yeah, I think we're in an era where the "smart fans" will be in abundance during big shows (Rumble, Mania, post-Mania RAW) and will pretty much boo anyone that they don't deem a super-worker, unless nostalgia is involved. I can easily see the crowd turning on Roman. Instead of Bryan, they'll just chant for someone like Dolph, Ambrose or something. I think the era of pushing someone based on looks is over.

I didn't take the "Mighty Mouse" thing so literally. I didn't take it as literally dressing him up as a cosplay superhero rodent, I took it as booking him like Dynamite Kid. I guess I'm too naive.

Bleeding? That...doesn't factor into anything at all for me. For anyone. That one seems odd.

Even when Haku was young he was always stout as fuck. A few of his King Tonga matches from old MSG shows are on WWE Network & even back then he was built like a brick shithouse. Not to mention he was always ox strong. Why would someone try to mess with him, even without his reputation? Craziness.

I remember that girl having HUGE boobs, so she would fit right in in pro-wrestling. Honestly, she would probably make some of the current Divas look bad by comparison. If the reported Dunn comments about Kelly Kelly were true, he would love Coral. She was quite pretty. Although that show was years ago. I remember thinking the dude, CT, was hilarious on those shows too. He was always either 1. clowning someone or 2. fighting. Mix in booze and, welp... Yeah, The Challenge was a guilty pleasure.

Read the whole thread tonight as I can't sleep. It's late, I'm on meds as I'm sick as shit and I'm not sure how well written I'll be or how much of this will all make sense. I must say, I don't think any other wrestler nominated will in the same thread have one person saying "not in the top 500" while another says "maybe #1." I'll dodge the firestorm & mud-slinging & just say I disagree with both. That is two radically different ends of the spectrum. I don't like all Shawn but I do like some Shawn & he'll be on my list. Not sure where. Not #1 and not #500. I do think that him being touted as "the greatest ever" by WWE hurt him in the eyes of some fans. To some degree, I think that has hurt Ric Flair as well. I don't think, however, that all the workers that have praised those guys over the years were all kayfabing their comments and I think most the fans of each are genuine in their praise as well, from what they have seen. Not what they have heard that they let persuade their opinion. I do definitely sense some resentment from some big wrestling fans in regards to the high praise that wrestlers receive as it grows over the years though. Shawn, to me, is one of those wrestlers. I feel like I'm seeing it again now with CM Punk around some parts of the internet too. The Rock also had it, especially after he left to go make movies. On the other end of the spectrum, sometimes wrestlers that were shit on start to universally have people come around to them too. Chris Masters, Mark Henry, in example. It's weird how there's like "trends" in wrestling on forums. Not saying hivemind or any of that nonsense, not trying to open that can of worms again. PWO has a lot of strong minded, opinionated posters. A lot of which seemingly know each other outside of the forum & are on a first name basis. Who the fuck is "Joe?" Without a username, I'm lost. I feel like a fish out of water here all the time. I'm in my early 30's & feel "young" when I come on here. Despite watching wrestling my entire life, it feels like everyone else has seen more & can remember more than I can. I don't think anyone knows my name, or gives a piss to, or can remember any of my posts at all, but I still come around because, fuck it, the wrestling talk is good. Also, we've all seen all of Shawn Michaels' stuff because it's all readily available. It's on DVD, it's on WWE Network. We grew up watching it. If I've seen his entire career, his tag work, his early solo stuff, his main event run, his comeback... how am I going to compare his entire work to, say, a dozen YouTube matches of The Destroyer watched individually without any build? It doesn't matter how much stuff I try to seek out between now & the vote, it's not going to be able to compare because I'm watching it all, in one year, at my current age in a group sit, in a vacuum, outside of the moment. I grew up watching WWF. I'm nostalgic for a lot of it now. I have memories of things that I remembered from growing up. How can I fairly compare the two? It's night and day. The footage won't be judged on the same scale as I can't disconnect myself enough from my past to be able to re-evalutate all things with a clean slate. Even with the dates put in place there doesn't seem to be enough time. I'm still struggling with trying to be impartial & finding a process that works better for me. I'm watching more wrestling now for this list, which is really just a hobby between internet nerds, than I spent doing work at jobs or projects for grades in school. I feel kinda silly about that, by the way. My girlfriend is now to the point where I get cussed if I mention watching wrestling. Also, if Shawn's later shit sucks, that doesn't make his earlier shit worse. If a wrestler dies at age 30 but was good from 25-30, does that mean he's better than Terry Funk 'cause Funk's still wrestling on jelly legs at 146 years old? Cause the early Terry stuff still owns & can't be taken away from him. The bodies of work are different. Shawn Michaels threw Marty Jannetty through the Barbershop Window! It's not a match but it's a moment I'll never forget. How does that not factor into my line of thinking when I'm comparing stuff? I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter too much as everyone is going to have a different list & there will be a lot of arguments & no one will be happy with the outcome of the final list anyway. That's the nature of lists. I love the process: the watching the footage, the pimping of matches, the reading the threads/discussion & the recommendations & nominations. This is the first thread I've read so far where it didn't really feel too fun for me anymore. This quote from the Integrity thread really resonated with me:

I'm warming up to Larry Zbyszko the more stuff I watch. Just saw his Bruno stuff & the cage match (low quality, kinda clipped on YouTube) and I'm going back to watch some AWA stuff. Great freakin' promo, man. I had no idea... Looking forward to watching more of his stuff. Next to The Destroyer, Zbyszko has been my biggest surprise so far.

I wouldn't have been able to listen to the commentary if Meltzer was on there. His constant "ya know?" every four seconds made his podcasts unbearable, I can't imagine his commentary. A man that's a terrible writer and terrible speaker has a newsletter & a podcast. It's so backwards that it makes perfect sense that he's involved with professional wrestling, since nothing else makes sense there either. Not that was I looking forward to Mike Tenay or now Matt Striker on color commentary either, mind you.

If that's true, I might give it up as well. Here I am hoping for MORE older stuff, like WCW Saturday Night & instead they might take some of it away? Bleh. Especially for shows that I have zero interest in. Do they really have a space issue where they have to remove stuff? Ugh.