Coffey

I remember that girl having HUGE boobs, so she would fit right in in pro-wrestling. Honestly, she would probably make some of the current Divas look bad by comparison. If the reported Dunn comments about Kelly Kelly were true, he would love Coral. She was quite pretty. Although that show was years ago. I remember thinking the dude, CT, was hilarious on those shows too. He was always either 1. clowning someone or 2. fighting. Mix in booze and, welp... Yeah, The Challenge was a guilty pleasure.

Read the whole thread tonight as I can't sleep. It's late, I'm on meds as I'm sick as shit and I'm not sure how well written I'll be or how much of this will all make sense. I must say, I don't think any other wrestler nominated will in the same thread have one person saying "not in the top 500" while another says "maybe #1." I'll dodge the firestorm & mud-slinging & just say I disagree with both. That is two radically different ends of the spectrum. I don't like all Shawn but I do like some Shawn & he'll be on my list. Not sure where. Not #1 and not #500. I do think that him being touted as "the greatest ever" by WWE hurt him in the eyes of some fans. To some degree, I think that has hurt Ric Flair as well. I don't think, however, that all the workers that have praised those guys over the years were all kayfabing their comments and I think most the fans of each are genuine in their praise as well, from what they have seen. Not what they have heard that they let persuade their opinion. I do definitely sense some resentment from some big wrestling fans in regards to the high praise that wrestlers receive as it grows over the years though. Shawn, to me, is one of those wrestlers. I feel like I'm seeing it again now with CM Punk around some parts of the internet too. The Rock also had it, especially after he left to go make movies. On the other end of the spectrum, sometimes wrestlers that were shit on start to universally have people come around to them too. Chris Masters, Mark Henry, in example. It's weird how there's like "trends" in wrestling on forums. Not saying hivemind or any of that nonsense, not trying to open that can of worms again. PWO has a lot of strong minded, opinionated posters. A lot of which seemingly know each other outside of the forum & are on a first name basis. Who the fuck is "Joe?" Without a username, I'm lost. I feel like a fish out of water here all the time. I'm in my early 30's & feel "young" when I come on here. Despite watching wrestling my entire life, it feels like everyone else has seen more & can remember more than I can. I don't think anyone knows my name, or gives a piss to, or can remember any of my posts at all, but I still come around because, fuck it, the wrestling talk is good. Also, we've all seen all of Shawn Michaels' stuff because it's all readily available. It's on DVD, it's on WWE Network. We grew up watching it. If I've seen his entire career, his tag work, his early solo stuff, his main event run, his comeback... how am I going to compare his entire work to, say, a dozen YouTube matches of The Destroyer watched individually without any build? It doesn't matter how much stuff I try to seek out between now & the vote, it's not going to be able to compare because I'm watching it all, in one year, at my current age in a group sit, in a vacuum, outside of the moment. I grew up watching WWF. I'm nostalgic for a lot of it now. I have memories of things that I remembered from growing up. How can I fairly compare the two? It's night and day. The footage won't be judged on the same scale as I can't disconnect myself enough from my past to be able to re-evalutate all things with a clean slate. Even with the dates put in place there doesn't seem to be enough time. I'm still struggling with trying to be impartial & finding a process that works better for me. I'm watching more wrestling now for this list, which is really just a hobby between internet nerds, than I spent doing work at jobs or projects for grades in school. I feel kinda silly about that, by the way. My girlfriend is now to the point where I get cussed if I mention watching wrestling. Also, if Shawn's later shit sucks, that doesn't make his earlier shit worse. If a wrestler dies at age 30 but was good from 25-30, does that mean he's better than Terry Funk 'cause Funk's still wrestling on jelly legs at 146 years old? Cause the early Terry stuff still owns & can't be taken away from him. The bodies of work are different. Shawn Michaels threw Marty Jannetty through the Barbershop Window! It's not a match but it's a moment I'll never forget. How does that not factor into my line of thinking when I'm comparing stuff? I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter too much as everyone is going to have a different list & there will be a lot of arguments & no one will be happy with the outcome of the final list anyway. That's the nature of lists. I love the process: the watching the footage, the pimping of matches, the reading the threads/discussion & the recommendations & nominations. This is the first thread I've read so far where it didn't really feel too fun for me anymore. This quote from the Integrity thread really resonated with me:

I'm warming up to Larry Zbyszko the more stuff I watch. Just saw his Bruno stuff & the cage match (low quality, kinda clipped on YouTube) and I'm going back to watch some AWA stuff. Great freakin' promo, man. I had no idea... Looking forward to watching more of his stuff. Next to The Destroyer, Zbyszko has been my biggest surprise so far.

I wouldn't have been able to listen to the commentary if Meltzer was on there. His constant "ya know?" every four seconds made his podcasts unbearable, I can't imagine his commentary. A man that's a terrible writer and terrible speaker has a newsletter & a podcast. It's so backwards that it makes perfect sense that he's involved with professional wrestling, since nothing else makes sense there either. Not that was I looking forward to Mike Tenay or now Matt Striker on color commentary either, mind you.

If that's true, I might give it up as well. Here I am hoping for MORE older stuff, like WCW Saturday Night & instead they might take some of it away? Bleh. Especially for shows that I have zero interest in. Do they really have a space issue where they have to remove stuff? Ugh.

Who the heck wants to see Rock-Rusev? I only want to see that if it is a 6 minute squash, ala Vader-Inoki. I do. With Rusev going over & getting revenge for Rock clowning him & Lana in New York. Beating the Rock makes Rusev look better than beating anyone else does. Including Cena or Bryan.

I'm all for Alberto Del Rio going to Ring of Honor but I have zero interest in any of those matches. They need to choose better opponents for him, in my opinion. I would much rather see him work, in example, Jay Briscoe, Jay Lethal or Adam Cole. Even Silas Young or Tommaso Ciampa. What's next, a fourth match against Michael Elgin? Actually, that could be OK too, I guess. I have just never been a fan of Roderick Strong. Daniels is OK but I don't "get" that match & ACH could have a good match with him but I think their styles might clash. We'll see, I reckon.

Also, is it really far fetched to think that John Cena, in front of the Wrestlemania crowd, will be the biggest heel in the company? He's like the top face and top heel at the same time.

There's quite a bit of Mania talk at the end of the big WWE thread. Maybe those replies could be moved to this thread?

I'm not interested in Daniel Bryan Vs. Brock Lesnar from a business perspective at all. Not as a main event, anyway. From a fan perspective, from wanting to see a great match, yeah, sure. You know it would be awesome. I'm not sure it makes too much sense for WWE though. Daniel Bryan already climbed the mountain top & had his big Wrestlemania moment last year. He's not topping that, in my opinion. Beating Brock wouldn't mean as much, in my opinion, as beating Triple H, Batista & Randy Orton all in one night. I don't think that Brock needs the title. I don't think WWE will be real quick to shoot Bryan back to the top & in the title hunt right after coming back. Plus, I'm pretty sure they're dead-set on Roman Reigns getting the big push now, not a year from now, even if he's not ready. That has never stopped them before. They don't exactly slow roll things these days, even when they should. Just look at how long it took for CM Punk to return after he "left" with the title, or when John Cena was "fired" via the Nexus. Even now, with The Authority... They were "fired" & gone from the shows...but even without Triple H & Stephanie McMahon on-air, it doesn't feel like anything has changed. Seth Rollins is still with J&J Security, Kane is still "corporate" Kane & the commentators mention The Authority every segment, to remind us that John Cena has the power to bring them back. I also, sadly, feel like The Undertaker's Wrestlemania mystique is tarnished. His loss hurt him some. That Streak was money. Now that he's lost, to me at least, he's just another old guy; part timer. If he has to be on the card, I think the "special attraction" match is where he'll be. Like 'Taker Vs. Sting or something. They had a license to print money with John Cena Vs. The Undertaker, especially if it were Streak Vs. Title, but 'Taker has lost now & I think the moment has passed. I would do: John Cena© Vs. Roman Reigns Seth Rollins Vs. Randy Orton Triple H Vs. Sting Rusev Vs. The Rock The Miz Vs. Damien Sandow That leaves Dean Ambrose, The Undertaker, Bray Wyatt, Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Luke Harper, Dolph Ziggler, Ryback, Sheamus & unfortunately Big Show & Kane with needing something to do. Finding something for the whole card is never easy. I'm just going by what's been on TV. Most of these matches wouldn't even be great matches...but I'm not sure if that's something WWE gives a lot of thought to. They're more storyline driven. What it would do, however, is allow Cena & Orton to give the rub to newer top guys in Reigns & Rollins along with having guys with credibility, like The Rock & The Undertaker put over big someone that will be there the following Monday. A New Day, Jack Swagger, Fandango, Erik Rowan and most the tag teams (Matadores, Rhodes Bros, Usos) all feel dead in the water to me right now. So they gotta do something with them too. If they're going to be on Wrestlemania in some capacity. Same with the Divas. Who knows? They'll probably change their minds a dozen times between now & The Royal Rumble. Brock might keep the belt. Reigns might win the Rumble. Batista, I guess, could come back? No idea on the health status of Bryan or Sheamus or when Orton is coming back. Seems with all the talent they have & 'Mania drawing nearer, there's no excuse for the shows to be as boring & lackluster as they have been. Everything seems RIGHT THERE but they just can't make it click.

I'm thinking that John Cena beats Brock for the title this time. I think that gives WWE more options for Wrestlemania & gets the title off of Brock going into the show, since he doesn't need the belt. I wouldn't be surprised to see John Cena Vs. Roman Reigns.

Car crash appeal, I reckon. Someone taking a bad bump in an unsafe match. I can't wait to see Bray Wyatt in a TLC match. Not because I think it'll be good but because I wanna watch that tubby dude climb a ladder & take awkward ECW-style bumps.

Vince McMahon won't live forever on top of WWE. He'll retire eventually, or if not, he will die. Morbid & I don't wish ill-will on him but he's no spring chicken. From all I've read, as soon as Vince is gone, Dunn will be gone too.

They even waited until the copyright logo popped up first! GENIUS! This show owned.

Well, that match owned.

Women's match was good. I think Sasha is better than Charlotte though. I guess with Charlotte retaining she's not getting called up after all.

I hate this crowd. They remind me of the old TNA Asylum crowd.

I like Corbin. I have zero desire to watch ANY match with Bull in it though.

Well my stream refuses to play without constantly messing up, so I guess I'll have to try to avoid spoilers & check it out later. :-/ At least I got to see the Steen debut. EDIT: Resolved! For now. Thankfully.

Good debut for Owens, in my opinion.

Thanks for the thread, Goodhelmet. What makes you think it could be a disaster? I'm really excited for this show tonight! I expect Sami Zayn Vs. Adrian Neville to be really good. I'm excited for the Kevin Owens debut. Charlotte Vs. Sasha could be pretty decent too.

I'm certainly more excited for the NXT show than I am for TLC on Sunday, that's for sure.

Curious if there is going to be a live thread for NXT Takeover: R Evolution tonight?

Yeah, I just watched it the other day. I commented on it in the ROH thread some. I like Briscoe too.

I want to see a feud. A feud between two wrestlers. That builds up & is heated. A good guy against a bad guy. The good guy wanting revenge. The bad guy getting his comeuppance. Culminating in a bloody cage match with a decisive babyface win. In 2014, now almost 2015, is there a chance that can even happen anymore? I don't think there is in WWE. Maybe I should just go back & re-watch cage matches from yesteryear.