Coffey

I didn't used to give zero stars or five stars. I didn't think there was such a thing as "perfect match" or a match that brought zero to the table. Just entrances alone and a headlock would give a match a ?*. If they show up and try, they get something. Whereas, I didn't ever want to rate a match 5 *'s because, to me, that means it's "perfect." So, what then when another match down the road comes along and I like it more? One has to be better than the other. Eventually, with a lot of viewing of matches, you get a slew of matches that are rating in someway similar but then when you look at the list as a whole, it seems to lose a lot of credibility. For example, you'll have one match at *** and another match at *** and you'll think "well, this match was better than that match" so you start tinkering with the *'s. It's a never-ending process. That's why I kinda got out of the habit of doing the little snowflakes.

It certainly doesn't deserve it's own thread but Mickie James might have the best ass in wrestling history. Jesus Christ. She's just thick in all the right places. THAT is what men are talking about when they say they like women with "meat on their bones."

Speaking of ROH, I haven't really followed them this year. I followed them through all of '05 and thought it was the best wrestling that I'd ever seen. I loved damn near everything, if not everything, that they were doing. Abyss & the Embassay. Gibson, Joe, Homicide, etc. I went to a live show in Dayton back in January. That was the last show I've seen. I've read some results and opinions about Am Drags reign and such. Have I really missed out on a lot? Anything better than '05? I thought Kobashi/Joe & Manhattan Mayhem were amazing.

Oh man, I remember that. Is it on You Tube or anything? I'd love to see that again. It really was a great video package.

Because to a lot of people, just because it's not WWE, it's better. Personally, up until about three weeks ago or so, I found iMPACT! damn near unwatchable. The Samoa Joe/Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash/X-Division stuff has helped a lot. I liked the ECW/WWE show last night. I wasn't huge on the commentary but I did like the insider jokes that kept getting thrown around. Just too many guys trying to talk at the same time to get in their pot shots. It was too hectic. It was cool to see some old faces again. I was actually surprised that Mickie James went over Jazz. I was surprised that Rob Van Dam beat Rey Mysterio clean, although I guess if you follow Smackdown, it's not that big of a shocker. The match was certainly hindered by the commercial breaks but it was still decent to good. I liked John Cena's promo. I liked how he acknowledged if he won he'd be in the middle of a riot. Foley's promo was good too...but it's basically the same "serious" promo that he always has. That blown spot bump that Edge took looked HORRIBLE. My goodness, he's lucky he can still walk. Dreamer was definitely blown up. It's a good thing he's in a tag match where he can brawl because even if his partner is jelly-boned Terry Funk, it'll still give Dreamer more time, or a slower pace at least, to work with. He's definitely not in ring shape. Sabu/Cena was better than anticipated with the expecting clusterfuck ending. Sabu didn't blow any spots that I can recall and hit a damn good triple-jump Moonsault. That's probably the first time a lot of the fans there had seen that move. Even though he doesn't have any ties to ECW really, Big Show "turning" made me mark out. It did kind of feel like the old nWo days for a minute. I'm hoping that Show will be booked as the monster that he is in ECW...and hopefully not booked like Big Sal.

...and even then, he still got some mic time. It was minimal, granted, but they (WCW) built-up the segment (Goldberg speaks...TONIGHT on NITRO!) and then Goldberg was short & sweet, but to the point (Who's next!?) It stood out and people wanted to hear him talk. Of course, it was because they'd never heard him talk before, I'm sure, but it still was a decent way to, I don't know, "develop" his character? I'm certainly not denying that Goldberg got pushed and was super, mega-over.

I don't think using Goldberg as your prime example is the best way to talk about wrestlers getting over without mic time. He started out 176-0, squashed everyone and even went over Hogan clean.

I said "we" could defend our opinions. If I thought it was just going to be me against the world, I'd have a made a "tell me why I'm wrong for liking HHH" thread. If there's something Triple H knows about, it's water. If you're looking for a kayfabe reason, he could've just remembered them doing it to HBK before his Kiss My Ass segment.

What do I have to convince you of, that we have different opinions? That's why my opinion was unpopular, hence the thread. What more can be said that won't just end with someone saying "I disagree?" It's not like I'm going to sway anyone's judgment.

I've always heard this too. This is terrible news; he was so young! I remember writing a letter to Hogan after 'Quake squashed Hogan on the Brother Love show. Tenta, you were a great heel.

I don't know how to respond to this. Especially coming from someone with the user name "Wild Pegasus" whom just make a "top 50 favorite WWE Benoit matches" topic. I like Triple H because he's entertaining to me. It has nothing to do, really, with how he's booked. Even if he shows ass and gets dominated in a program, like he did with Batista, he still entertains me. I guess that's why it's an unpopular opinion? Saying Triple H is "in no way special" is just silly. What can't he do?

This is sort of like the "State Your Unpopular Opinions" thread at TSM, except I thought we could actually defend ours here:[li] Triple H is my favorite wrestler He has been for sometime and now that he's seemingly turning face, a lot more people are coming around on him. Before he feuded with Cena, though, I was trying to defend HHH daily against multiple naysayers from several different message forums. I just like his persona and his wrestling style. He really does remind me of a mix of several old NWA wrestlers. Namely Harley Race and Ric Flair. I also think he's entertaining in non-wrestling segments. For example, on Raw, I marked out when he spit out the water that Shane spiked. [/li][li] I like the Nash Vs. X-Division Angle in TNA I've been talking about this in HTQ's blog over at TSM. HTQ certainly makes good points and is rightfully doubtful about how it'll all play out. I'm more thick-headed, so I'm giving Nash the benefit of the doubt. I think it's made for some entertaining TV so far which is something that TNA has desperately needed. [/li][li] I'm not high on Chris Benoit As you can read in the topic I started about Benoit. I don't hate Benoit, I'm just not up-in-arms over him like the rest of the internet. He's a great wrestler, it's just that in this day and age, I think you have to bring more to the table than being a great wrestlers. At least when you're on the WWE stage.[/li]

I agree 100% but it's still a problem. I don't think that's completely accurate but I can see the argument being made. For example, people cared about Bobby Lashley winning or losing when he still had the undefeated streak going. People want to see the Great Khali lose. Benoit has had chances in the past to get over on the stick and has failed, like you said though, he doesn't get a lot of chances because WWE don't have any faith in him. Just like Rob Van Dam and Bobby Lashley. They know they can't talk, so they don't let them talk too often. Benoit doesn't come out and cut a promo that puts me to sleep, he just comes out and if I don't care about his opponent, I change the channel. It's different when it's a PPV but on TV, it's like, the match isn't going to be anything amazing and even if it's good, it'll be ruined by a commercial break, so I have no investment in his TV matches.

See, this is also where I disagree because Benoit is in WWE. It'd be different if he were still wrestling in Japan or if he was in Ring of Honor. He's not, he's in WWE, where that shit certainly is important, dare I say the most important. Benoit puts on great PPV wrestling performances. I can't dispute that. The problem is leading up to said PPV match, I have nothing that pulls me in and makes me want to watch his PPV match. I know I'm talking in circles, but that's my point. Benoit may be a good wrestler, or as you put it "Benoit is a wrestler who wrestles really well. That's his appeal. That's all there is to it." That's my problem: that's all there is to it. I don't care if Benoit wins or losses. I don't care if he gets screwed or gets revenge. I have investment or interest in his persona from a fan perspective.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I liked Rude, DiBiase and Hennig as previously mentioned and they could all go. It's just that in-ring (and outside of the ring) they were simply more entertaining. Benoit does very little in his matches that excite me. Especially when he's been doing the same by-the-books WWE style match for years now. Am I supposed to get excited when he goes for the Diving Headbutt because it might get a long two-count?

That's bullshit. Just 'cause I don't like Benoit doesn't mean I'm not a real wrestling fan. I shouldn't have to work at liking him...he should make me like him. I guess I want more out of wrestlers than actual in-ring wrestling talent. I still watch Nikita Koloff and Michael Hayes, for example.

This is a good summary of how I kind of feel. Except, for me, it's just a part of it. I also find his character boring and this charisma that he has, apparently, doesn't shine on all...cause it missed me.

No, it's more shallow than he's old. I just don't like him. He doesn't entertain me. I think it's a crappy gimmick...but, then again, Goldust worked.

I guess they're too busy running return videos of Batista & Kennedy, showing not one but TWO See No Evil ads (weeks after the theatrical release), having Great Khali on Piper's Pit and having Vito come out in drag. Honestly though, I don't want to see Tatanka on Smackdown. I'd just get upset if he ever went over anyone.

Maybe it's 'cause the fake Kane looked dumpy as fuck. His hair was terrible, his body shape was terrible and his Chokeslam was terrible.

I may be the only person in existance that still sides with Batista in all of this.

I understand that, Rock was just my example because he's the glaring name that stands out. Why? Because when Rock was still active, he was bashed on-line and Benoit has always been praised. "The Rock can't wrestle." "Another twenty minute promo." etc. To me, Benoit is no better than Rhyno. Benoit is certainly a better worker than Rhyno but...once again, they just do shit in the ring and I sit on my hands for the most part. I think Benoit is in the spot he should be in right now...but that doesn't mean when his music hits I stand up and start cheering. Benoit isn't the total package...but why does everyone overlook his weaknesses all the time? By everyone I mean people like Wild Pegasus who seem to live for Benoit and Benoit alone. TSM, DVDVR, etc. Benoit is universally praised simply because of his ring work, yet other people can't be universally praised for an area that they accel at? It's fickle. It's like everyone name drops Benoit 'cause they've seen other people name drop him.

Alright, here's a sort of different way to take this thread. When talking about "workrate" (a term that I'm not too keen on) Benoit's name is often mentioned towards the top of the list, when composing a list. Of course, so is Kurt Angle, whom most "smarks" would agree is beneath Benoit in terms of "workrate." So, if you were to make an all-encompassing list, everything that it takes to be successful in the wrestling business...is Benoit still there? That's kind of my perspective on the thing. The Rock wasn't an amazing wrestler really but he'd certainly be on "the list." I don't know if Benoit would. People talk about matches as if they're art and what the wrestlers do in the ring is an artform. Well, if that's the case, everything the wrestlers do is part of the same art and Benoit fails in some departments whereas others don't. If you're on camera, you're performing. When looking at the whole picture, it seems a lot of other workers bring more to the table, as a whole, than Benoit. However, for whatever reason, Benoit seems to get a free pass because his in-ring is that good. Take away the bell-to-bell from Benoit and what's left? Not a lot. Take away the out-of-ring from The Rock and what's left? Enough to get by. Does that make sense? It's sort of a moot point because wrestling should play to wrestlers strengths but even in ECW Heyman was trying to get Benoit over on the stick. Wrestling is a business. You have to sell the fans on wanting to see a match. So, why do the fans want to watch any of Benoit's matches? He's not a compelling character and he never has great storylines building to blowoff matches. He's just a good wrestler. I don't know how well this relates but my favorite parts of wrestling, the memorable moments, aren't usually entire matches. It's the simple stuff, like Austin coming out and hitting the Stunner on Regal because he was reading Hamlet. Or HBK throwing Jannetty out the Barbershop window. When those moments build to a match, then I care about the match. I like the wrestling aspect outside of matches a lot. Like random run-ins to hit finishers...not like WCW did with every match ending in a screwjob...but like Raven hitting Evenflow DDT's when he wasn't in a match or Kevin Nash coming out to Jackknife Powerbomb X-Divison wrestlers after they've already lost.

OK, so argue it then. What's this "well defined character" of Benoits? He's a "wrestling machine~!" How is he better, kayfabe-wise, than Kurt Angle? I'd argue that Benoit has more intensity than charisma. People flock to the great intensity that he brings, like Goldberg.