Coffey

Maybe it's 'cause the fake Kane looked dumpy as fuck. His hair was terrible, his body shape was terrible and his Chokeslam was terrible.

I may be the only person in existance that still sides with Batista in all of this.

I understand that, Rock was just my example because he's the glaring name that stands out. Why? Because when Rock was still active, he was bashed on-line and Benoit has always been praised. "The Rock can't wrestle." "Another twenty minute promo." etc. To me, Benoit is no better than Rhyno. Benoit is certainly a better worker than Rhyno but...once again, they just do shit in the ring and I sit on my hands for the most part. I think Benoit is in the spot he should be in right now...but that doesn't mean when his music hits I stand up and start cheering. Benoit isn't the total package...but why does everyone overlook his weaknesses all the time? By everyone I mean people like Wild Pegasus who seem to live for Benoit and Benoit alone. TSM, DVDVR, etc. Benoit is universally praised simply because of his ring work, yet other people can't be universally praised for an area that they accel at? It's fickle. It's like everyone name drops Benoit 'cause they've seen other people name drop him.

Alright, here's a sort of different way to take this thread. When talking about "workrate" (a term that I'm not too keen on) Benoit's name is often mentioned towards the top of the list, when composing a list. Of course, so is Kurt Angle, whom most "smarks" would agree is beneath Benoit in terms of "workrate." So, if you were to make an all-encompassing list, everything that it takes to be successful in the wrestling business...is Benoit still there? That's kind of my perspective on the thing. The Rock wasn't an amazing wrestler really but he'd certainly be on "the list." I don't know if Benoit would. People talk about matches as if they're art and what the wrestlers do in the ring is an artform. Well, if that's the case, everything the wrestlers do is part of the same art and Benoit fails in some departments whereas others don't. If you're on camera, you're performing. When looking at the whole picture, it seems a lot of other workers bring more to the table, as a whole, than Benoit. However, for whatever reason, Benoit seems to get a free pass because his in-ring is that good. Take away the bell-to-bell from Benoit and what's left? Not a lot. Take away the out-of-ring from The Rock and what's left? Enough to get by. Does that make sense? It's sort of a moot point because wrestling should play to wrestlers strengths but even in ECW Heyman was trying to get Benoit over on the stick. Wrestling is a business. You have to sell the fans on wanting to see a match. So, why do the fans want to watch any of Benoit's matches? He's not a compelling character and he never has great storylines building to blowoff matches. He's just a good wrestler. I don't know how well this relates but my favorite parts of wrestling, the memorable moments, aren't usually entire matches. It's the simple stuff, like Austin coming out and hitting the Stunner on Regal because he was reading Hamlet. Or HBK throwing Jannetty out the Barbershop window. When those moments build to a match, then I care about the match. I like the wrestling aspect outside of matches a lot. Like random run-ins to hit finishers...not like WCW did with every match ending in a screwjob...but like Raven hitting Evenflow DDT's when he wasn't in a match or Kevin Nash coming out to Jackknife Powerbomb X-Divison wrestlers after they've already lost.

OK, so argue it then. What's this "well defined character" of Benoits? He's a "wrestling machine~!" How is he better, kayfabe-wise, than Kurt Angle? I'd argue that Benoit has more intensity than charisma. People flock to the great intensity that he brings, like Goldberg.

I don't think it's fair that WWE gave Chris Benoit a "thank you" title run when Rick Rude never got one and he had more tools than Benoit. DiBiase and Hennig too. Of course, since when has wrestling ever been fair? Different era's anyway. Maybe it's because the internet wasn't the monster that it is today back when those three were in the midcard of WWF but I don't get a lot of the Benoit love. I'm more impressed when a bad wrestler has a good match than when a good wrestler continues to have good matches. I was genuinely surprised at the Smackdown where Henry beat Rey for example. Compare that to Finlay/Benoit from this last Judgment Day PPV.

So, here we are. Since I made a new thread, I thought I should add more content to the original post and perhaps expand on my opinion more. Chris Benoit is pretty much the embodiment of "smark-darling." He has a ton of wrestling experience, great selling, good facial expressions and he's one of the best wrestlers currently active as far as it pertains to psychology. He's put on great matches in countries all over the world. He's worked for ECW, WCW & WWE. He trained in the infamous "Hart Dungeon." So, why then, do I find him so boring? It's certainly not what he does in the ring. I've found several of his matches gripping, such as his Royal Rumble match with Kurt Angle. However, even that match, to me, took awhile to get started. Maybe it's because he's so universally loved on-line that my expectations for him are raised too high? Or maybe, just maybe, it's because he lacks that certain "it" to put him on the next level as an entertaining superstar. That superstar quality. The charisma and out-of-ring quality. Perhaps it's because my attention span is too low and I don't want to sit around and wait for his matches to start getting good? Has WWE brainwashed me into being accustomed to short, "WWE style" matches that are "right to the point" so to speak. So, when Angle/Benoit are given half an hour to work, the first ten minutes feels like filler to me instead of building a story. I don't know. To me, like I previously said, it takes more than just great in-ring work to be considered a good wrestler. As much as people hate WWE and Vince McMahon, he has a point whenever he talks about "making movies" or "telling stories." As lame as a lot of the shit is, you can't just throw great workers into the ring with no rhyme or reason, tell them to have a great match and have that be the end of it. Look at Ring of Honor. So many great matches that each month dozens are forgotten. That's how Benoit comes off to me. Forgotten. His character consists of "I can wrestle good, so I'll beat you" and that's, really, about it. That is boring. I've watched Benoit in the J-Cup tournament in Japan. I watched him when he was a member of the IV Horsement in WCW. I've seen him win the WWE World Title at Wrestlemania by making HHH tap-out in the main event. It's all been good...but I'd still take a "sing-along with the Rock" over all of it. Also, because it's a thread about Benoit, here's an animated gif that my friend Jeremy made with Pivot Stick Figure Animator entitled "Benoit's Last Day." I got a kick out of it:

Maybe it does deserve it's own thread but I don't like Chris Benoit. I never really have. He's certainly had good matches in the past but for the most part, I find him extremely boring. To me, it takes a lot more than having good matches to be a good wrestler. Maybe that's why I'm a WWE fan? As far as TNA is concerned, I'm glad that the last episode of iMPACT! did well ratings wise. It was a good show. They have a couple of storylines going on right now that I care about. Good word of mouth from the internet (for the most part) is the reason that I went out of my way to watch the show...and I'm glad that I did. DVDVR makes TSM look like a bunch of Einsteins collaborating on scientific theories.

He's a chubby chaser? Hey, look! A pun!

That's all fine & dandy but part of the appeal of watching the PPV's is so that you're current with the storylines and outcomes of the matches. If you don't follow WWE weekly, yeah, it's a great solution. However, if you plan on watching Raw on Monday's, having to wait to watch the PPV for three months kinda sucks.

I thought Steph was hot when she first got with Hunter, certainly not "mannish." It wasn't until after she got the balloon implants and her arms started getting bigger that it started going downhill.

No love for his IC title match with RVD? The match had rolling Northern Light Suplexes with the arm trapped, Anderson style. Great shoulder work in that match.

So, forty bucks for a two hour & forty-five minute show? That seems expensive entertainment wise. You can go see a movie at the theatre that lasts close to two hours for only eight bucks.

The epitome of "meh." I don't even think TNA will want him. I never really got to see what he could do in the ring. Even when he was paired with Benoit, he was getting squashed in under a minute every time. I thought he had a decent enough look though.

Why does it matter how many moves a wrestler uses? Look at Hogan and he made millions. Hell, Bret Hart whom is universally loved on-line and notorious for being a great worker only had about ten moves total.

I'm downloading the show right now. The guys over at the LAW gave it thumbs down though.

Loss, I quoted your Khali response over at Something Awful. I hope you don't care. I just thought your paragraph really summed it up well.

I think a move to Raw would benefit her anyway. Get her around Foley.

I'm not a fan of the splitting of MNM but we'll see how it pans out, I guess. If Melina & Nitro show up on Raw tomorrow, I'll be happy.

There's a Smackdown PPV tonight. I really want Mysterio to lose the World Title.

Kind of in the same vein but what I don't understand is why does WWE feel the need to change what's working for the guys in the developmental league? For example, why couldn't Damaja come up as Damaja instead of as a Basham Brother? It's not like debuting on national TV and the extra road schedule and ring time and arena fans isn't pressure enough. They basically have to start all over in more than one way. They have to get over again, in front of a new, larger, more critical audience AND they have to work with a completely new, usually bigger saddled gimmick.

I guess it's like the whole baseball theory. You don't know what it's like to play in the show until you're at the show. That's all I got.

That's the best post you've ever made. Completely summed it up.

The production values continue to improve, even on the Indies. Video packages are always good. The "big draw." When wrestling is at it's best, there's always that one guy that you can point to and be like "he's the guy." You had Hogan in early WWF and Flair in early NWA/WCW. You could slap guys in the ring with them, like Orndorf or Luger or Sting or whomever and they'd gain instant credibility. Wrestling doesn't have that now. You have Cena getting the superman push and Triple H still on top. When you throw a Rob Conway or whomever in the ring with them, they aren't stars at the end of the match like they would've been if they were in there with a younger Flair. There's also not any real compelling storylines or a top faction. Whenever wrestling has been good, there's been both. The IV Horsemen with everyone chasing after Flair's title, for example. The nWo fending off Sting, DDP & Goldberg. Good managers seem to be a lost art in WWE too.

The problem is there's always something in WWE that interests me. A lot of the time the bad outweighs the good but I still like watching certain things. For example, right now, I like HHH. I like seeing which cities boo and which cities cheer Cena. The Spirit Squad make me laugh. A lot of the women, namely Mickie, Maria & Trish, are hot. I liked the Styles promo and I'm glad I got to see it live. Etcetera. I think my problem came when I tried to make wrestling more than just a TV show. When it became a hobby other than just watching it on Mondays. When I started talking about it to friends or trying to defend my opinions about it on-line is really when it all started going downhill. Honestly, I think the last boom period is what killed wrestling for me. In more ways than one. The bar was set too high. I had too many options available for me. It was the "in" thing to talk about and whatnot. When the boom died down, I was left by myself. I've been on life support since then.