JerryvonKramer

I guess my real question is that if you are setting a bar where Bret, Jumbo and Martel are all not making your list, who on earth is? And what criteria do you use to get to the point where you get to 100? Like just looking at your stock falling and rising lists from a couple of months back, what would be the basis of ranking a Gino Hernandez above any of those three guys? Or Brian Pillman? You have Steamboat as a riser, which suggests he might make your list, to a lot of people he's a very similar sort of worker to Martel. What distinguishes them in your view? None of this is intended as a a knock, just a little intrigued as to how you will get there. On the face of it, it seemed like you don't like big performers, but then Pillman, Gino and Steamer are all huge performers. Do you think any of them are demonstrably smarter as workers than a Bret, Jumbo or Martel?

Earlier on, I watched the classic Kung-Fu flick Five Deadly Venoms. And last night I watched The Raid again. Couldn't help but think about how some of those dudes would fare in a UFC ring. Googling about I've found some disappointing, largely boring and predictable results which suggest that even though the early days of UFC were all about the geek's wet dream of putting different styles of fighter against each other a la Street Fighter 2, it quickly became dominated by Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and the whole thing became homogenised. Seems to boil down to Kung fu guys not being able to deal with getting grounded or having an answer for grapplers. I have virtually no interest in MMA because a lot of the bouts I've seen have been pretty dull. However, I am interested in that dream hypothetical "what if Bruce Lee had a fight with kick boxer?" sort of deal. To me that sort of hypothetical is the "hook" of what would make something like MMA appealing. Yes, I basically want a real life ninja squaring off against a real life karate master, or whatever. In this thread, I just want to know what are the closest examples of this that have actually taken place? YouTube clips encouraged. Ideally inside a ring, but if there are examples of real life fights somehow captured, then cool bring em in.

Just seen this. Sending all the positive thoughts I can.

I'm just interested to know what happens when you get 70 deep, to see what sort of guys you are putting over Bret Jumbo and why. Not saying impossible, just interested.

You can name 100 better workers than Bret Hart Jumbo?

This seems too low. Was an easy ****, IMO. As I recall, my issue with that match was Kobashi, who I thought was not quite there in 91 and did several things that bugged me during it. See AJ Excite Series #2.

I still need to see that one, don't exactly go out of my way to watch Mil matches. I might do a "Jumbo: odds and ends" thread soon.

I'm just interested to know what happens when you get 70 deep, to see what sort of guys you are putting over Bret and why. Not saying impossible, just interested.

You can name 100 better workers than Bret Hart?

Still don't get it. What are you saying? Gene only "made it famous" in WCW?

Gene in AWA predates Tony, and even him in WWF is contemperenous with Tony in JCP. I believe Tony replaced Rich Landrum in 1984 and Gene joined WWF from AWA in 84. You can get a good look at Okerlund in AWA during those Heenan and Bockwinkel promos on the YouTube playlist. I dig Tony though, as announcer, as interview guy. I think his best role, however, was doing colour alongside Ross.

True, but then they mention Hansen is in on the strength of being a legend in Japan.

Based on all the stuff I've seen of his, Adonis is a guy who'll probably make my hundred.

this is precisely what makes him good I am of the mindset that Vince and David Crockett are both much better and much more what I'd want than a Mike Tenay or Joey Styles. The old barometer used to be "knowing the moves" My new one is how emotionally invested can they get to you into it.

He's awesome

On the All Japan Excite Series, here are the ratings I have for Hansen matched vs. Four pillars. Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (9/4/91) ***1/2 Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (7/29/93) ****3/4 Stan Hansen vs Toshiaki Kawada (2/28/93) ***** Seems like we didn't watch a lot of the Stan stuff.what other ones should I definitely check out and review?

I didn't think that Mil match was particularly memorable Chad. I've seen Mil have much better matches with The Destroyer and Harley Race (see 9/12/80) and even though I wasn't crazy on it, thought the Tenryu match where he bleeds from the mask stood out more than Jumbo's 82 match with him. Even though he's annoying and selfish, it seems weird calling Mil "subpar" when so much of what makes him suck is his refusal to give. I get the impression he could be having better matches but chooses not to. Slater I probably see as being much better than "serviceable" and think he was probably a top 30 level work in the late 70s and early 80s. But you're right, off-hand I can't think of a better singles match from him. In a tag he has this: Terry Funk and Dick Slater vs. Jumbo Tsuruta and Tiger Toguchi (4/12/80) I gave that 4.5 To my thinking, Slater is on par with guys like Bob Orton Jr, and Adrian Adonis, who to me feel like they should be top 100 level workers but we have severe footage gaps which hampers making a serious case.

I probably won't go back before 94 for Benoit.

goc, I think the list is mostly completely arbitrary and if you look at the actual article has no depth at all, laden with typos. It is an atrocious piece of work designed for the express purpose of generating click through rates for the ads. Curt Hennig ran for two reigns as intercontinental champion, so his credentials can not be argued with. He also took part in some classic battles and went from loosing to winning easily. Orton became the youngest world champion ever so just for that deserves a place on this list. Perhaps his out of ring antics are the thing that stops him being crowned the best of the best, but it is all up to you at the end of the day! Samoa Joe - This very stylish big wrestler is not much for words and prefers to let his actions in the ring do the talking for him. Dynamite Kid - Bret Hart [sic?] was brilliant inside the ropes but outside was a total media nightmare! He was also a smaller wrestler who had the power and skill to beat much bigger guys which was part of his appeal. With the help of Davey Boy Smith he was one half of the ‘British Bulldogs’ who at the time were the best tag team in the business. Unfortunately a huge back injury meat an early retirement and a wheelchair. Stan Hansen - Well know [sic] as a very technically good wrestler in the US, but known as a living legend in Japan, Hansen was probably the biggest earner in the sport in Japan. He was a well known reveler out of the ring which didn’t win him many friends in the ring, however, the fans loved him! Billy Graham - Wrestlers of the 60’s and 70’s were a bland lot with nothing really to separate any of them in terms of style..enter Billy Graham! Graham had a fantastic physique and wore brightly colored clothing as well as head bands. This look totally took the wrestling world by storm. His run as WWF champion was a long one [not particularly!] and he sold out Madison Square Garden many times. We are wasting our time even looking at it.

I'd go as far as to say there's no rationale for this list at all. It seems entirely random.

And Dusty.

And Harley.

It appears they forgot about the Funks.

Happy to move those two guys back to 94. Honestly, I was thinking more of Eddie in 89 (Funk match) and Benoit vs. 2 Cold in 93. I have not much explored their earlier careers outside of a handful of matches.