JerryvonKramer

Through to 95 and I'm veering on the side of thinking Kawada may be a bit overrated. He's certainly a guy I don't see criticised nearly as much as any other top tier candidate, and times I have criticised him on All Japan Excite series it's almost like I'm committing a heresy. Kawada more than any other guy seems to be haloed in a way that Flair, Kobashi, Misawa, Jumbo, Tenryu, and Funk are not. Although Hansen is a close second for halo effect. For me, he's had a number of disappointing performances. Times when he goes to the mat, I don't think the work is all that. He is a logical worker a lot of the time, good at focusing on specific body parts, and possibly the most *oppertunistic* wrestler ever. He has a genuine cheeky horrible little bastard vibe when he equalizes by going back to an injury to regain momentum. Better at that sort of thing than practically anyone I've ever seen, but this is not the only thing to consider. I don't think he's particularly great at going long. Whether in singles or tags, I really really haven't enjoyed the hour broadways that clog up 95. There is a pervading sense of "out of ideas, out of tricks" in all of those matches past the 30 minute mark. It's weird, like they can go 40 mins no problem but not the full 60. Has to be a knock against Kawada. Flair, Jumbo, Bock, these guys were masters at going 60, but Kawada it seems to me could not master that. Another thing I thought about was that, for example, Flair vs. steamboat seems like a 5-star affair every single time out, especially 89 series, not just trilogy but the others too. Misawa vs. Kawada is not five stars every time out. It might be an unreasonable demand, but we're right at the top end talking fine margins here, and things like that should be considered I think. He's great at a lot of things, but I don't think he should be put on a pedestal beyond criticism. One thing I am keen to do is see Kawada outside of his highest end four pillars stuff. I want to see the equivalent of his Flair vs. Ricky Morton or Flair vs. Kerry or Flair vs. Koko Ware, Flair vs. Sam Housten even. Any number of "lesser" guys. I'd be fascinated to see what Kawada could do against some real scrubs too. If anyone has a list of Kawada vs. Randomers they'd like to share, I'd love to take a close look. This is another thing that for me is a knock on he All Japan guys. It's alright having 5-star classics with other all-time elite workers, but what about working with the mortals like some other candidates had to do?

Shame to see an original voice not posting any more.

Who are the best offensive wrestlers in your view? I made a top ten of those I've spent decent amounts of time viewing. 1. Kenta Kobashi - so dynamic, so huge 2. Yoshiaki Yatsu - I think people should make more of a fuss over his amazing offense in general 3. Bob Orton Jr. - probably the most exciting bombmaster of his generation 4. Harley Race - suplex for every occasion, piledrivers galore, awesome "follow through" punch in corner, headbutts, bizarrely worked underneath for most of his career. 5. Jumbo Tsuruta - the only man who can make a basic bodyslam seem like a finisher. Every move he hits is like a finisher. 6. AJ Styles - the most exciting and dynamic of that generation of guys for me, sick bombs. 7. Billy Robinson - swank moves, massive bombs. 8. Bobby Eaton - maybe I'm a mark for back breaker variations, see also Billy Robinson 9. Iron Sheik - in his younger days awesome suplex machine 10. Vader - yes. The reason guys like Angle and Benoit aren't here is because I often feel like they don't give moves time to sink in and register. See also "go go go". I've been really disappointed by Benoit whenever I've seen him recently.

I really do wish I could understand where you and others are coming from on this, but I really don't see it. Perhaps part of wider disconnect from lucha, but who knows. Breaks for me is one of the most natural heels ever and this cam be obvious from just one match. Character work 10/10.

I'll be ranking The Destroyer, but the older 50s guys work a style that I find too boring in general. And I have watched a good chunk. Hans Schmidt is a guy I'd consider but it seems we don't have a huge amount on tape. He's stiff as hell. Carpentier looks amazing first few times you see him, but it quickly becomes clear that he's that eras equivalent of a spot monkey. Don Leo Jonathan is someone I might consider, he's looked good in all stuff I've seen.

Right now I go: 1. Misawa 2. Kobashi 3. Kawada 4. Taue On these guys.

http://placetobenation.com/all-japan-excite-series-10/ Parv and Steven return with a bumper show to get the All Japan Excite wagon back on track. 07/28/94 - Steve Williams vs Mitsuharu Misawa 01/19/95 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi 01/24/95 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada 03/21/95 - Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue 03/26/95 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 04/08/95 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Akira Taue 04/13/95 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi 04/15/95 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue

Don't we have Flair in places like Hawaii and Portland? Hardly massive markets in his mind. I don't think you can make any assumptions about Ric phoning it in if he didn't like the town. He also says he hated working with Jumbo and most of us like those matches a good deal. But once again, things are flipped, I talked about Funk phoning it in for South West matches (Dory did too), and somehow it's back to Flair allegedly phoning it in. Funny how it happens.

I'd certainly be interested to take a look if there's any footage.

The main issue with this is that it might assume at some level "all other things being equal", but all other things are not equal, because ... well, most other people just didn't have Flair's career, variety of matches, opponents, quality, quantity, etc. etc. as we've discussed over and over. So let's say Flair starts at 100 based on all of that and that tiny thing knocks him down to 99, so what? Who else is at 100 based on all of the same criteria? This is more to the issue and more what we are getting at in Part 4. And then let's say -- for the sake of example -- you work out that for you based on whatever Funk is a 100. Then does he get the same sort of scrutiny? Are you going to pull out a random match he had in 1981 in South West against ... whoever. Well, see, I did review that match in South West and it wasn't all that. Funk phoned it in that night. But, when it comes to Funk's case nobody is going to give a single shit about that, whereas in the Flair case for some reason it is supposed to matter. Do you understand where I am coming from on that?

My main question would be that could something as tiny as that really be the differentiator between putting someone like a Funk above Flair? To me it seems really disproprotionate. As in, even if what you are saying is true --that Flair made certain opponents do spots they didn't usually do whereas Funk didn't (as I said, there are spots that Funk opponents ONLY do vs. Funk, but let's humour this) -- in the overall scheme of things how significant is it really? I mean what about all the other arguments made? Does fixating on this one tiny detail invalidate all the other stuff Pete said or Charles said or I said in those last two parts? Not having a go, just wondering why this one thing is given so much importance, especially when the other examples like Funk are given a compleltely free pass when they shoehorn opponents into standard spots too -- the bark like a dog, the roly poly, the jab duel. Funk opponents habitually are made to do those things when they never do them vs. anyone else. I gave other examples: Rey's 619, Bossman's leg over the bottom rope. There are others that we haven't mentioned, like Bret's standard transition through the sternum bump, which he'd do as a face or a heel to set up the heat or shine respectively. Whoever it is would have to do the move that produces the sternum bump. It just seems very nitpicky to do that to Flair when you could do it basically to any wrestler. I am also going to be starting my "GWE Top Tier Guys vs. SCRUBS" sub-project soon, reviewing matches from top guys against lesser opponents. Since so many of the knocks on Flair come when not in his top end matches but in his lesser matches against lesser guys. I am going to shine a very bright light on Misawa, Kawada, Jumbo, Lawler, Tenryu etc. etc. vs. lesser guys. Let's see how great they are against the equivalent of a Nikita Koloff in 85.

No one is saying you have to listen to any podcast, just don't comment on stuff you haven't listened to, especially since many of the points you raised we addressed specifically in those shows to the point it was comical to anyone that had actually listened. And I think it's fair as a basic principle for people to stay out of commenting on stuff where they have no clue what was said. Also, please, "vanity project" -- all the hundreds of shows any of us have done and just this one is a vanity project? We have listeners, plenty of them, I really don't care who does and does not listen. Always been grateful to the people who do and for their support through feedback and donations. Is it so much to ask that you don't go wading into threads set up for specific shows? This isn't your finest hour El-P, and I've been a fan of some of your stuff in the past. Anyway, not to derail ... I'll be turning in a ballot, which I hope would make anyone else feel comfortable to do so considering how much stuff I've not seen or don't care for. It's a snap shot not a definitive end point.

Show up for me again now. Sorted Wing?

Hmmm, you're right, seems not to be on there, not sure what to suggest since all the right boxes are ticked. I'll try re-upping the file and see if that fixes. You can listen / download from the Soundcloud.

Should be there because it downloaded for me last night, see "feed", something like that.

Parts 3 and 4 have been uploaded and added to the original post as well as PTBN link.

This match is fucking awesome.

DiBiase vs Slater is a match I'd be excited about

You wouldn't see Funk as a master brawler? Just kind of interested. To me both guys are brawlers who can work technical if required. Terry it seems to me is also a big bumper in the mode of Race or Flair and the similarity of his basic working style to either of those guys is seldom acknowledged.

If it had Lars on it or Rancid music on there, was likely pulled because of copyright. They yanked a few tracks like that about four-five months back.

I wonder how much any of the old-timers ever explained the "why", especially to kids they considered greener than grass. Do you think Bock explained why to Hogan? Do you think Buddy Rose did to any of his younger opponents? I'm not saying they didn't, but have you ever heard a wrestler give an account of an older guy explaining exactly why they are doing everything they are? I think the expectation was to pick things up almost by osmosis. Learn on the job, "get a feel" for it, etc. And then maybe in the car ride on the way home, if the kid fucked up they might lay out why.

Number of PMs so far: ZERO. I don't need a PM to accept but I need time to listen to all of the podcasts. How much time do I have to listen to the podcasts before recording? Let's take this to PM. Bill, I'm hardly running away from anything. It's just that I've read a few of GOTNW's reviews and don't think he and I are ever going to see eye to eye on basically anything. To the point where I don't think engagement with them would be particularly fruitful. That's not running away, it's getting to the point where the impasse is such that there's no point even having the conversation. His reviews read like hatchet jobs to me, and when guys like Chad or Charles have put in so much thought, effort and analysis into the same matches only to see them get beaten with a bludgeon, I don't see why I should give him time and attention when he doesn't seem to have bothered to do that for anyone else. Some of us take stuff seriously, and to the point where sometimes it's better not to go there with someone who in your mind just doesn't get it and never will.

Also the idea that Flair wasn't 100% in his comfort zone working Broadways with Steamer, Mid-Atlantic chop fests with Garvin or brawls with Funk demonstrates a startling lack of understanding. I'm sorry but it just does.

So to get this right, you'd like to see a green Nikita Koloff in 85 have more of a say on calling the match?