JerryvonKramer

It's going to be awesome when I make my pick of who to save and get to dump Backlund.

If you hold the waist it's "Texas", if it's back of the trunks it's "stump", if you jump it's "jumping" and I guess if it's legs it's "gotch style" For anyone who doesn't listen to Titans, at one point me and Johnny had an ongoing debate about whether the piledriver hurts the top of the head. I said it is meant to and he said it wasn't. This was after I criticised someone for going for a top of the head headbutt after taking a piledriver.

So weird this because I was looking up different styles of piledriver last night and was trying to work out the difference between a belly-to-back / Texas (i.e. Normal) piledriver and a stump or puller piledriver. I think Terry Funk did the latter. Backlund did a jumping piledriver aka the most dangerous move in the known universe.

When was the piledriver banned in Memphis?

Dory Funk Jr. and Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen and Ted DiBiase (08/31/85) Dory sporting a beard here. Terry is too. This must have been right before Terry went to WWF. DiBiase doesn't have a beard. Nonetheless, this is is some West Texas reunion shit right here. Ted does a lot of trash talking at his old trainers. Hansen's moustache seems a bit thin. Dory and Hansen to start. Criss cross. Dory grabs the ropes. Wily. Elbow and collar tie up. Shoulder berg, no one giving. Headlock by Hansen. Ted in. Double elbow smash. Snapmare. Knee drop. From face lock. Terry in. Lock up with Ted. Backdrop by Ted. Terry bails. Terry vs. Hansen now. Dumps Terry outside for Ted to get in some shots. Choking on bottom rope. Piledriver. Ted in. Elbow smash. Fist drop. Two count. Some nice stiff reverse knife edges from Ted now and a stomp. Sleeper by Ted. Terry fading but has one arm up. Forces his way out but is so dazed he goes to Hansen for a tag who kicks him in the face, ha ha. Tags in and out now working over Terry. Double backdrop. Terry eventually hits a back suplex on Ted and makes it over for the hot tag. Forearm smash by Dory on Ted. But Ted gets a running knee in and tags in Hansen who hits a drop kick. Double forearm smash. Dory manages to hit his butterfly suplex on Ted though. Funks hit a double forearm smash now. Piledriver by Terry. Hansen saves the cover. Neck breaker by Terry. Texas jabs now. Spinning toehold! Hansen in with the save again. Headbutt by Terry. Suplex by Hansen on Terry. Some double teaming on Terry now. Dory in. Awesome European uppercut. Even more awesome scoop powerslam by Ted. Really good sequence of action here. Terry sneaks in with s drop kick. Hansen posts Dory. All four men outside now, I think I know where this is going. Oh no, back in. Double shoulder barge on Dory. Ted runs to the ropes but Dory dumps him on the mat. Goes for ... Texas Cloverleaf!! See that Malenko! Terry grabs Hansen. But he struggles free. Ted looks like he's about to tap any minute. Lariatooooo! Bell goes without a cover. What's happened here? Hansen has his rope and cowbell, nails Dory with it. He gives it to Ted who pauses for a moment and Hansen is like "do it!!" Ted nails his old mentor with the cowbell. Hansen is screaming "DO IT! DO IT!" Ted is smashing this cowbell into Dory's head over and over. Dory is busted open. Terry is in the crowd throwing chairs at the ring. Hansen has a chair and is massacring young boys. Terry has grabbed a row of four chairs which are connected together. Ted flattens Dory with one last chair shot before bailing. Dory completely covered in blood. Holy shit, that is not what I saw coming. I am not sure what the ref's decision was, but I thought this was headed for a predictable double count out only for Hansen and Ted to go full blown heel beatdown. I also liked the drama of Ted hesitating to nail Dory and Hansen like a sadisitic bastard commanding him to do it. I don't know if the Japanese knew the history between DiBiase and the Funks. But I do, and it really added to that post-match. As for the match itself, I really enjoyed it. I thought the early FIP section on Terry was a bit bland, but things picked up when Ted was heel in peril, and Funks were on offense. All Japan was just so loaded with quality in the 80s, I'm not even going to complain about this not being on the 80s set. But it's another Funks match that would have made my top 50. ****

Ron Simmons nomination.

Timely bump

Well I've fantasy booked a scenario where it might work.

I think he might have looked less out of place against Hogan a couple of years earlier during the Dungeon of Doom stuff. The roster was absolutely stacked in 98. Like I said, I could buy him if you pretend he never debuted and bring him in as Crow Sting's dark skeleton friend who doesn't talk. And maybe some gimmick like he comes out of the smoke or some shit. A secret weapon vs. the NWO. Maybe Sting brings him in after Starrcade 97. You could then drop him into main event spots just through association and once he's there rely on his qualities to get him over further. This is a lot easier than trying to elevate him up the card. There's a Nitro main event (say Sting and La Park vs Hogan + partner / Outsiders) and then he's in the mix for the next PPVs.

Yeah, I know why the perception is there. I was just pointing out the absurdity of pushing for an LA Park main event run in 1998. Doesn't matter now anyway.

I was talking about the general fan perception of him in 1998. A quick google of "LA Parka cruiserweight" will show you that it is still something with which he's associated. I just got miffed at being called ignorant.

Looking for more high end Dandy after the three I've already looked at. I haven't exactly been enamoured with him so far. My biggest take away has been "wow, that Negro Casas is really something".

Whatever you do don't call this guy a cruiser weight!

I loved a lot of Doom matches in 1990. They are much better after they lose the masks, and literally at the point where they seem like the best thing ever, they split them up.

Dylan, try vk.com. You may need to sign up for an account but they have a shit load of 70s All Japan on there.

One use for LA Parka in a higher role might have been as a Sting ally. But it would have been more effective if he didn't debut until Sting revealed him. That might have given him a kind of Kane run.

WWE seem to think he was in the division: http://www.wwe.com/superstars/la-parka These guys also: http://www.prowrestlingpowerhouse.com/the-top-ten-wcw-cruiserweights-of-all-time/ Plus who ever booked him to all those light heavyweight titles he won in Mexico.

This is a thread asking a normative question. Parka was over, had a very unique look, was in no way a light heavyweight (really an embarrassingly ignorant claim) Come on now, he wasn't associated with the division?

It's not one particular argument but just a general observation from seeing and hearing countless reviews over the past few years. If you look at what I've said, you could probably guess. But I'd rather not point to anyone in particular.

Subjective vs objective is not really the most helpful way to cast this, and it gets away from what I was getting at. That's too abstract and far away from the brass tacks of actually discussing matches. I was talking about criteria and consistency. Whichever way you cast it, most of the time you come up with a conclusion (I enjoyed this match) and work backwards to a set of premises, that is reasons, for your conclusion. Whether it is ultimately subjective or objective has nothing to do with the price of beans. Either people have criteria (implied by giving reasons for liking or disliking matches) or they don't ("I like what I like"). I'm talking mainly about people in the former group. If they are giving reasons, they have a criteria. And my point was that people are often hazy, inconsistent or working with different standards depending on who is working when drawing from that criteria.

I posted that before I saw your post Bill.

I'll have to remember all this. Next time Johnny or Pete or whoever wants to argue with me about a Backlund match or whatever I'll come back with "you like what you like, let's move on". People should copy that phrase too and roll it out whenever there's any sort of disagreement, it would save a lot of energy.

Please Parv, make it. I am all ears. Bruno sold out the garden or near enough for about twenty years, month on month. There were some down periods, but he consistently drew 15,000+ at MSG from the mid-60s on and often 20,000+. He was equally as consistent in Philly, Boston, Pittsburgh and other WWF secondary markets. Month on month, year on year. Hogan was a case of diminishing returns. I'll give you a good example. When I went to see TNA a couple of years ago, a lot of the crowd was there to see Hogan, just one time. If they'd come back in a month, how many of the same people would turn out to see Hogan again? "Well I've seen him now" Hogan was the circus coming to town. You don't see the circus every month. So yeah, he can draw you a big house once, but can he do it next month, and the month after? Even in 1986, they brought Bruno back to pick up some flagging local house show numbers. Hogan pops a gate, but he was a novelty act and novelty wears thin after a while. It worked because next month he'd be in LA, next month after that he'd be in Toronto, month after that in Texas or wherever. Bruno just worked the same towns again and again and over time the numbers never flagged. He had a special connection with those people in a way Hogan never really did. Hogan is people turning up to see a big star, Bruno is people turning up to see their hero. I think it's a difference. I think the Bruno run is more impressive. People can make similar arguments about Jerry Lawler in Memphis, but Bruno did it on a grander scale. And I don't think Lawler was ever over as a hero to the extent that Bruno was, the fact he worked heel so much is testament to that. Bruno was unturnable. To make the argument he was a better draw than Hogan you have to look at repeat gates for Hogan in the same towns over a period. Look at MSG month on month vs. Bruno over a similar time span. Don't forget that Hogan suffered a dip in business from about 91 to 96. And he had to turn heel to remain relevant. The fans never really turned on Bruno like that. They always wanted to see him, they paid to see him, they cheered for him wildly. This is without going into how Bruno was used to prop up Backlund's gates throughout his time as champ. Shea Stadium is Bruno's gate, not Bob's.

I think you can make the argument that Bruno was a better draw than Hogan.

Yeah, the main difference is that they were Austin (biggest draw ever), The Rock (movie star), and Foley (author of number 1 bestsellers), whereas the others were DDP, Booker T and Jeff Jarrett. Excellent point well made by me.