JerryvonKramer

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You say that, but if it was so easy, why was MSG dead for so long before Rocca? You've also got increased competition from other forms of entertainment. Broadway is right there. The idea that it's "easy" to draw in New York is a bit overplayed I think.

I think it's a fair point. Bruno did draw in Canada though. He was a mainstay for Frank Tunney, and shuttled between New York and Toronto for years.The point is really that Hogan only worked as a national draw. Vince was also pretty smart with his TV appearances, kept him special, always made sure that the people wanted more Hulk and didn't get burned out on him. And even then they did get burned out by 92.I don't know if you could go national with Bruno, but I do think he would have gotten over in pretty much any territory. Look at that bold line... he was the ONLY national draw. Everyone else was still fragmented. Hogan was a national household name. Only Andre the Giant at the time was even close in being a "national draw". I am not downplaying Bruno's accomplishments the way you downplayed Lawler's but Hulk Hogan was a phenomenon that you had to be around for to truly understand.... at least to a ten year old kid. Maybe old grumpy Hogan haters will have a different take. I don't actually disagree with this Will. My point was that "an argument can be made" for Bruno over Hogan.

You make that sound as if selling out The Garden is easy.

Come on, I thought you Americans had this draft thing down to an art.

Huh?! I'm picking late in the first 3-4 rounds and dead last in another.

I see where you are coming from. Is "Wrestler of the Year" the person who was involved in the most ****+ matches or the person who gave the best performances overall? I'll give you an example, when I gave Wrestler of the Year for WCW to Lex Luger for whatever year it was (1990 was it?), I don't think it was because he was involved in the most great matches, but because as a package he felt like the best worker in the promotion in terms of his performances -- obviously not a better worker in terms of his base skills than Flair or Eaton or Arn, and maybe even a comparable amount of great matches, but Lex felt like he brought it all together that year. If you think after seeing everything that Kobashi was like that, then fine, I won't argue. From the stuff I saw, which I understand is at the very top end, Kobashi didn't feel, as a pacakge, like the guy putting on the best performances. There could also be a peak vs. consistency aspect. Like Hansen's two best performances that year and Kawada's best are better than anything Kobashi did, but over the year he was more consistent? Something like that? I dunno, to me Kobashi still doesn't seem like the finished article and so seeing him as the wrestler of the year seems weird to my way of thinking.

What difference does it make how many matches if as a worker he is not as good as Hansen or Kawada? I can watch all 20 of them if you want, how does it put him over the top? I'm getting a bit fed up of being called "ignorant".

This is why Great Match Theory should not be the be all and end all, because there is no way Kobashi was the best wrestler in the world in 1993.

92 to Kawada and 93 to Kobashi feels generous to me.

I actually think as Vince Sr.'s representative that I should be responsible for booking Andre's schedule. Talent trades and deals for Andre were a key part of the way WWF operated.

I'd quite like the three wise men if possible. Grand Wizard was still alive in July. If the promotions don't come with managers, they need to be added to the draft. Very important for angles.

Jim Breaks vs. Johnny Saint (3/14/73) Saint looks like every 70s Roy of the Rover footballer you've ever seen. Walton claims that Breaks has been training with Bradford City Football Club. Believable, I guess. Breaks might do the fastest "full arm drag and twist" I've ever seen. I never know why it's called that by the way, it's probably more like a "wristlock takeover", but Schiavone and Solie would always call it a "full arm drag and twist". At one point Saint does a kip up from a hammerlock straight into a snapmare, which was a pretty cool counter. This was an excellent bout. After Saint took the first fall, Breaks went "on tilt" as poker players might say and ramped up his aggression using a lot of cheap tactics including face mangling, stomps on the nose and other such nastiness. Saint all of a sudden loses his shit and starts hammering on Breaks seemingly breaking his nose. Breaks looks like he starts bleeding hardway, and the match gets real heated. Saint takes a surprising upset second fall to win 2-0 up -- notably this was non-title, so Breaks is still lightweight champ. Fanastic match and probably the best I've seen in this style. Breaks's character work is off the charts, but he's that rare breed of worker that combines that with being an off-the-charts great workrate guy too. Saint looked very good in this match. I loved how Breaks just made him snap here, it was "no more Mr. Nice Guy". Excellent transitions in this match and the sense of progression and escalation of heat was amazing. ****3/4 Jim Breaks vs. Johnny Saint (5/5/73) So the inevitable title match. Breaks isn't fucking about anymore here and has come to fight from the get go. Awesome moment at the end of the first round when Breaks has Saint in some sort of standing arm hold, the bell goes and Saint throws a cheeky arm drag. That fires Breaks up. Second round sees things heat up more. Breaks even begs off a bit. The limb work is just phenomenal here from both guys. The way Breaks trash talks members of the crowd out of the side of his mouth while he's sitting in a hold is one of my favourite things. As is him screaming "WATCH THE NOSE SAINT!" Even though this is only the fifth or sixth Breaks match I'm watching, to me he feels like someone who is comparable to a Nick Bockwinkel or Ric Flair as someone right at the very top of his game and at the top of the profession. Master of the craft in every aspect. At one point Saint gives Breaks a stiff as hell elbow in the face, which causes Breaks to bust out the patented "Jim Breaks Special". Saints tries one himself and Breaks goes to the tights sly as anything, then pleads innocence with the ref. Another cool spot I like is Breaks going for a snapmare but Saint landing on his feet. Breaks stooging is really great. At one point he screams "NO!" as Saint counters a headlock into a wristlock, begs off and then immediately grabs the hair to take Saint down. Consummate heel and as good as any heel you'll ever see. Can't help but be blown away by the guy. The way he flits from moments of schtick to genuine brutality and violence is something to see. The stomp on the back of the head spot is sick. Where Saint controlled a lot of the non-title bout, here Breaks is the aggressor more, which makes sense as psychology if you think about it. But then against the run of play, Saint steals the first fall in round 4 to go 1-0 up. Breaks goes on his facial attack now, bending and twisting Saint's nose. Pressing down on the bridge. Trying to pull or twist it off his face. Saint returns with a snapmare and chop's Breaks's nose to cause it to bleed once again. He has blood all over his mouth now. Saint is surprisingly vicious when he's on offense. Round six and Breaks is slamming Saint's face to the mat with real force. Dumps him outside. Really nasty slam onto the mat again. And Saint is busted open to give Breaks a technical knock out. Someone in the crowd throws their drink at Breaks. This was awesome as a pay off to the last match and just as enjoyable and excellent. This was worked as more of a sprint or heated match from the start. I thought it was great and back-to-back some real quality between these two. ****3/4 Jim Breaks vs. Zoltan Boscik (12/2/72) There is an old woman in the front row with hair I can't take my eyes off. Boscik comes from the Dory Funk Jr school of math supply teachers. He was the lightweight champion before Breaks, and Walton tells us he's just had his naturalisation papers come through to become a British citizen. "Zoltan" is a cool name befitting of a wizard or something like that. I like the fact that a lot of the crowd are wearing suits and ties. Breaks is in a particularly argumentative mood. He's doing a lot of schtick in this match. Playing possum and then going for cheap shots. Begging off and sneaking in with leg sweeps. And so on. There are actually elements of his character that remind me of the comedian Johnny Vegas -- I wonder if Breaks was in any way an influence on Vegas. Maybe some other Brits here might be able to see what I mean. It goes beyond just the accent and "them being Northern", there's something of Breaks's demeanour that Vegas also has, especially for example when he's moaning on Shooting Stars. Funny sequence where the ref picks Breaks up for pulling on Boscik's ear, and Breaks shouts back "I'm not touching his ear!" while clearly pulling the ear. I should note that Boscik does the same land-on-the-feet counter to the snapmare as Saint. They pan over to show a blind girl in the crowd wearing earphones so she can hear Walton's commentary on the match. "Sandra". Super fan. It's so much fun watching Breaks. Boscik is not a particularly interesting opponent, but Breaks is in a permenant state of disgruntlement: irritated by the ref, irritated by the crowd, he's a classic British "moaner". And it feeds through everything he does. He gets a fall to make it 1-1 and even complains to the ring announcer that he didn't call him "Lightweight Champion Jim Breaks". Completely awesome. He goes over fairly quickly in the sixth round with a standing Jim Breaks special. Not quite as good as the Saint matches because I didn't find Boscik nearly as engaging a babyface as Saint, but I think Breaks's superlative character work makes this definitely worth checking out. It was quite long but he kept things entertaining throughout. ***3/4 Jim Breaks vs. Bobby Ryan (3/23/76) British lightweight champ vs. European lightwieght champ here. Crowd are doing football-style "Bobbbb-y Ryyyyan" chants. He's also wrestling in a "number 6" vest. This is billed as a "TV all stars" match or something -- seems like Ryan is part of a stable called the "TV all stars". No titles up for grabs I don't think. Breaks assaults the nose with the pressing. Walton never misses a chance to remind us that Breaks's nose is broken. "Ryan, of course, unlike Breaks has got a bone in his nose". At one point Ryan injures his back missing a dropkick, but for some reason Breaks doesn't follow it up and instead targets the arm. I thought that was a missed opportunity and some illogical psychology. Later though, he does this weird move with both arms behind the back and a foot on each one, hard to describe but it was neat. Ryan does the land-on-feet counter to the snapmare too. Looks like a standard Breaks spot. Breaks spends a lot of this match trying to break Ryan's left wrist, which Ryan sells pretty effectively with genuine agony on his face. Cool spot when Breaks throws Ryan and his legs land and hang over the top rope. The finish is spectacular as Breaks has an armlock on, and Ryan flips over for a bridged flash pin. 2-1 and the win. This was good, but I wasn't sure why Ryan's back injury didn't play into the narrative more. Breaks did stick to his gameplan of attacking the wrist and had a laser-like focus on that and the finish was great, but this is the least of the matches I've watched in this sitting so far. ***1/2 Jim Breaks vs. Vic Faulkner (7/5/77) Walton tells the story of how Faulkner lost the title to Breaks on a DQ, and had tears in his eyes because he'd never broken a rule before in his life. Wonderful!! Faulkner is a pretty firey babyface, and as more spunk than Ryan or Boscik. His headscissors was nasty. Stamp on the hand. Slap across the face. This sort of thing ramps up intensity. Seems like Breaks has really pissed Faulkner off. Breaks it seems to me has a number of basic strategies: 1. Destroy (left) arm usually culminating in the Jim Breaks Special. 2. Attack the face, especially the nose. 3. Dominate with throws, mainly the slams across the ring. 4. Needle with taunting and incessant complaining to rile up opponent make them lose their cool and make a mistake or get themselves DQ'd 5. Cat and mouse. Stooge. Beg off. Sneak attack or cheap shot (hair, tights, etc.) These are his main weapons, and he moves between them like a master psychologist and pushes in a certain direction depending on the opponent. He can combine them, he can switch between them, but these are mostly the basic ingredients of his gameplan. A lot of them on display in this match, where it is clear that Faulkner is struggling to keep a level head. Breaks's taunting is world class. He points to his chin over and over again goading Faulkner into taking a shot (and so a DQ). Faulkner has to muster all his self control not to. The stomp variant of the Breaks Special is sick as fuck by the way and legit one of the most painful looking moves ever. Although the submission mostly comes from the standing version. Ultimate payback now as Bert Royal distracts the ref for Faulkner to get in a punch and steal a pinfall. Breaks looks totally shocked. Crowd erupt, get to their feet and seem like they want to get in the ring. Breaks offers his hand to shake and they do. Great match which had some real heat because Faulkner brought a lot of fire, while Breaks worked and worked to rile him up only to see it back fire for a great payback spot and a real Wile E. Cyote moment in the finish. Great psychology and storytelling plus tremendous character work and some sick limbwork. ****3/4 Jim Breaks vs. Young David (12/3/79) Davey Boy is 16 and is ridiculously young and skinny. Literally a schoolboy. Sort of the ultimate version of the DiBiase vs. Dustin challenge match combined with Razor Ramon vs. 1-2-3 Kid. Stip here is that if Young David can score a pinfall, Breaks will give him £100. Much of the drama of this match comes from seeing a veteran wrestler go up against this boy with more guts than sense. There are some nasty moments, like when Breaks gut punches David. Or when he has his wrist twisted back as he's lifting him up for the Breaks Special. He even hot shots him from the special onto the top rope at one point. And David submits eventually to the special. This is legalised assault. The visual of this grizzled man brutalising a 16-year old alone is worth seeing. David's screams of pain as Breaks twists and bends and stomps on the wrist are genuinely a bit disconcerting. What this means is that the crowd cheer wildly for any bit of offense that David gets in. And, of course, he steals the pin to come back to 1-1 ensuring that he gets the £100. The ring announcer counts it out in £5 notes. And then announces David as the winner just to rub salt in the wound. And then announces him as "the loser of the contest" just to annoy him a bit more. This match has a unique dynamic and is definitely worth seeking out. ****

I think it's a prestige ranking and within the game, they essentially treat Central States as being St. Louis (they have Wrestling at the Chase as their TV show and Sam Muchnick as a the owner -- I believe).

Steve Grey vs. Clive Myers (11/22/75) Completely awesome setting -- it always reminds me of snooker at The Crucible in Sheffield, both in the crowd and in Walton's commentary style. Something so British and crap-sounding about "Steve Grey from Peckham".Clive Myers is in his new union jack trunks. The ref is extremely loud with his counts and uses this bizarre kind of Scottish auctioneers' voice, probably the greatest ref in the world. He looks like he could be a town butcher or something like that. Definitely enjoys a pint or two and maybe a packet of pork scratching down the pub. Bizarre spot about 7 minutes in where Grey rolls up into a ball and Myers rolls him around, gets a laugh out of the crowd. There are some extremely neat and lightning fast counter sequences here. This is worked uber-clean. They get themselves into some highly improbable knots and the crowd laugh a few times. There's a lot of comedy in Grey's performance. At one point Myers has him down for a pin and he raises an arm in a comical manner, Myers does a double take. Crowd find it funny. He's kind of a worm, wriggles out of things a lot. Myers the aggressor for the most part. This was a mix of some stiff looking matwork, explosive action, weird comedy spots and excellent fast counters. Pretty enjoyable, time flew by.I'm not sure about PeteF3's 5-star rating, but it's definitely a great match. ****1/2

Whether you draft first or last, it will be skill in booking that counts.

I'm JJ Dillon, I'm Bobby Heenan. To be the man you got to beat the man, and that man is Kelly. *Holds the four fingers to signify Titans for life*

You've made him the underdog babyface here Kelly.

What about the actual Chase in St. Louis, Pete?

Philly Spectrum? The Kiel in St. Louis?

Here are matches I'm super high on: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30977-your-34-matches/&do=findComment&comment=5669539

Can you think of any matches I've been super high on that you've disliked? Just curious. Most of the examples I can think of are the other way around.

LA Park vs. Dr Wagner Jr (02/06/13) First fall had quite a few indie garbage worker tropes that I wasn't that fond of. For example, Wagner Jr queitly standing by the turnbuckle after taking an 8-minute pounding checking his head for blood while Park casually gets four chairs into position for a powerbomb. I mean "come on". Disappointing end to the first fall that. Also didn't like setting up the chair for a baseball slide shortly after that. Not the sort of thing I can really get behind. I will say that I quite like the crowd though. Things pick up when Wagner finds a bottle in the crowd and starts bashing Park with it. I think he might have even glassed him with it. Pretty brutal. Park bleeding a hell of a lot with his mask ripped off. Second fall was better. Pretty sick cuts and bleeding from Park here. His face looks like a piece of butchered meat. I thought the actual wrestling exchanges in the third fall were pretty lack lusture, and the missed arm drag spot looked silly. There was a very good feeling of carnage and aftermath during it though. Wagner did a bit too much of the "what do I have to do to put this guy away?" sitting up and looking bewildered stuff for my tastes. Also some pointless ref spots. I don't know, I feel like I'm totally not on the same page as the people talking this up. It does have an epic bleeding job from Park, but as a 35-minute brawl, it felt slow in parts and I felt the match peaked too early with Wagner's sick comeback sequence. There's no real escalation of violence in the third fall, because after you've taken a bottle to a guy's head, where do you go from there? Certainly not a classic or anything. I did dig the crowd and setting, so that's a plus. ***3/4 LA Park vs. El Hijo del Santo (4/28/04)[??] Park all in white for this (hoping this is the right match). There's an excellent transition at the 6-minute mark when Park hits a drop toehold with Santo coming off the top rope and he immediately ramps up the level of violence in the match when he takes over on offense. Santo a bloody mess before long. There are some sick shots of blood being splattered all across the ring which is a cool visual. Park does sometimes give me the impression that he's walking around thinking about what to do next, which can make these brawls feel a bit lethargic in places. I'm not sure that 2/3 falls is the best format for a brawl, to be honest. There is a guy sitting in the front row in a cowboy hat, which I dig. Finishing sequence looked really sloppy, I hated those sunset flips. Covers looked lame, and the double refs were out of position which made the actual finish look forced as the second one took forever to get over there. I can't be sure if this was the right match [for identification purposes, La Park is wearing WHITE here], but I have to be honest: it didn't do a lot for me. I didn't really care for some of the switches from brawling to surfboards and technical sequences, seemed to defy the logic of what they were going for. The level of the work just doesn't seem like it is there to me. I thought this was actively not very good. **1/2 LA Park vs. El Mesias (12/11/10) Quite the spectacular entrance for El Mesias. Silly six-sided ring. Opening assault from Park was pretty wild. Like the sequence through the crowd and the chair shots looked great, his inzaguri and vertical suplex on the chair is the best bit of actual wrestling work I've seen from him in this sampling. Then he goes and gets an actual skip (seemingly one made of plastic -- it's more like a rubbish collection unit on a trolley) and bodyslams El Mesias onto it. I don't really like the "hardcore" elements to these brawls beyond the chairs. El Mesias is a really "modern" worker in his look, style and character work -- not really my sort of thing, wouldn't be out of place on Raw. This AAA crowd is hot as hell though and the atmosphere has added to the match quite a bit. Neat kick to the face from Park followed by a scoop powerslam by Mesias (he's no DiBiase). Park does the missed armdrag spot again, I really don't like that. Looks weird to me. I'm also not sure about a heel hitting multiple armdrags, it's a babyface move in my book. Big plancha by El Mesias. Park has a lot of colour here, face almost completely red, mask ripped. Whole series of hurricanranas from El Mesias and a flying bodypress from the top to the outside. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Few minutes later, a superplex by Mesias, but Park kicks out. Well you've got to expect that, we've just seen a flying bodypress from the top rope treated like it was nothing. Fast-forward a few minutes and Park hits a tombstone piledriver. He replaces his mask. Puts a mask on El Mesias and a white sheet over him. Goes for a figure four ... inside cradle! Interesting nearfall. If Jesse was on commentary he'd have been hammering Park for wasting time with the ceremony. Crossface from El Mesias. Is Park going to tap? No, he gets to the ropes. A dude hands him a chair. Low blow! Why was the ref turned around there? Was he paid off? This wasn't my cup of tea at all. Really didn't enjoy it at all. ** I came into these three matches fully expecting to enjoy them. Pretty disappointed all around. On this evidence, I don't think Park is making my GWE 100. I thought the Wagner Jr bout was at least worth watching, so I'd be prepared to watch at least two more.

Well I could convince him back in the ring for a last run with the strap. If he's not available though, so be it.

Let's move on, let's move on.