JerryvonKramer

I tried to nominate Mike Quakenbush but got thwarted by bureaucratic Candadian red tape.

I think I really value a guy who can "do it all". I said this about Jumbo: To me this automatically puts Jumbo over guys who can only work one style. Same goes for Flair. It's a major plus point for Nick Bockwinkel. On the flipside, I see Bob Backlund's lack of versatilty as a major knock on him. I said this: So absolutely I'm looking for versatility.

I have a bunch of Florida stuff that seems to feature Embry quite strongly. I haven't watched through it yet and he might just be a jobber, but he's all over those cards.

I would like to strap Pete down though, and Clockwork-Orange-style recondition him to understand the difference between "their" and "there". He does that with such consistency that it's almost become endearing ... almost.

Did a single lamb complain to the shepherd about their impending slaughter? It's alright, it's no big deal.

Joe, I wanted to start a feud with you too, but then you went and joined me in shitting on Strongbow as the worst guy ever. Enjoyed this show a good bit. As I wrote on Dylan's FB page: Section on Sting felt a bit like a heel beatdown on the 2-year old rotting carcus of a horse.

To be honest I'm a bit of a ha-do-ken merchant and then if someone comes close do the classic jumping fierce, standing fierce, dragon punch triple combo.

Loss, have you seen any of Onita's matches from 92 with The Sheik?

Does anyone know how much Sheik we have on tape? 70s Big Time Wrestling from Detroit has a bad rep, but I was so taken with Sheik's performances in those matches with the Funks that I want to seek out some more. Any and all recommendations welcome. Bobby Heenan always maintains that Sheik was the greatest heel of all time. And certainly in those AJPW tags, he put on a masterclass in villainy. You don't hear Japanese crowds boo like that very often. I was also one of the few people to absolutely love his match vs. Ricky Steamboat on the 80s AJPW set. EDIT: I found this listing ... BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 1 Sheik vs Tom Jones Sheik vs Don Red Cloud Sheik vs Tom Reeseman Sheik vs Sailor Art Thomas Sheik/Sgt.Jacques(Rene)Goulet vs Dick the Bruiser/Sailor Art Thomas Sheik vs Mark Lewin (U.S.Title) Sheik vs Andre the Giant Sheik vs Tiger Jeet Singh (Mud Match) Sheik vs Dusty Rhodes Sheik vs Terry Funk BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 2 Sheik/Bobby Heenan vs Bobo Brazil/Dick the Bruiser Sheik/Abdullah vs Terry & Dory Funk Jr. Sheik/Abdullah vs Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (Rematch) Sheik vs Giant Baba Sheik/Great Mephisto vs Terry & Dory Funk Jr. Sheik vs Abdullah the Butcher Sheik/Jimmy Snuka vs Jumbo Tsuruta/Ricky Steamboat Sheik vs Tiger Jeet Singh BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 3 Sheik vs Dory Funk Jr. Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Terry & Dory Funk Jr. Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (Rematch) Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs The Destroyer/Mr.Wrestling (aka Tim Woods) Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Giant Baba/Jumbo Tsuruta Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Kim Duk/Kintaro Oki Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Billy Robinson/Horst Hoffman Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Wahoo McDaniel vs Frank Hill (aka Jules Strongbow) BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 4 Sheik/Sabu vs Atsushi Onita/Tarzan Goto (Infamous Ring of Fire Match) Sheik vs Terry Funk Sheik/Sabu vs Terry Funk/Tarzan Goto Sheik/Sabu vs Dr.Hannibal/Dr.Loser Sheik vs Abdullah the Butcher (Cage Match) Sheik vs Abdullah the Butcher Sheik/Pat Tanaka vs Taz/Kevin Sullivan Sheik vs Atsushi Onita (Barbwire Match) Sheik vs Damien 666 BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 5 Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Terry & Dory Funk Jr. Sheik/Dory Funk Jr. vs Stan Stasiak/"Bulldog"Don Kent Sheik/John Tolos vs Mighty Igor/Pampero Firpo (Silent Film Hi-Lites) Sheik/Tully Blanchard vs Henry Garcia/El Zapata Sheik/Mark Lewin vs Harley Race/Larry Hennig Sheik/Bugsy McGraw vs Giant Baba/Kintaro Oki Sheik vs Ricky Steamboat Sheik/Mark Lewin/Kevin Sullivan/Prince Kamalama vs Bruiser Brody/Lars Anderson/Grizzly Smith/Superfly Tui (Bloody Cage Match) Sheik vs Bruiser Brody (Bloody) BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 6 Sheik/The Crusher vs Rudy Kay/Sky Hi Lee Sheik vs Bill Melby Sheik vs Chief White Owl Sheik vs The Guru Sheik vs Giant Baba Sheik vs Bobo Brazil Sheik vs Chief Jay Strongbow Sheik vs Carlos Colon (WWC Title) BEST OF THE SHEIK VOL. 7 Sheik vs Chief Jay Strongbow (U.S. Title) Sheik vs Tiger Jeet Singh (Cage Match) Sheik vs Tom Reeseman Sheik vs Bobby Blaine Sheik/Abdullah the Butcher vs Giant Baba/Jumbo Tsuruta Sheik vs Don Red Cloud Sheik vs Billy Bird Sheik vs Seiji Sakaguchi (Shakey Picture but very Rare Match) Sheik/Mark Lewin vs Ueda/Tiger Jeet Singh

One thing people don't often talk about with Abdullah is that by 1980, he'd already been wrestling for 22 years. In terms of "miles on the clock" he had already had 100s of matches before the 80s even begin. We don't have his first decade on tape. It's not really an excuse for him, but the vast majority of Abby matches see him past his prime. I think he also learned how to generate heat from The Sheik, and -- just like him -- that meant being wedded to certain formulas that got over. There are some people who argue "well if it got over, he was doing something right". But I wonder if Abby got lazy with it? I still want to see some of those brawls from Puerto Rico.

Yeah, but wouldn't it have been nice to let those with the set come to that conclusion themselves as per Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask? It was the first AJPW match that Dave gave five stars to.

Two things: 1. Does anyone have any info on AJPW commentators from the 70s, 80s and 90s? Who were they? When were they changed etc? 2. I'm claiming that I could beat anyone on this forum at Street Fighter in a best of 5.

Thanks for posting all these Will. Just wondering about the 12/08/84 tag with Hansen and Brody ... did the committee consider the fact that Meltzer gave it 5 stars? I mean even if none of you liked it (and I haven't watched it yet), just seems a bit strange to leave off a match like that which has historical significance and critical acclaim when you managed to find room for like ... Joe Malenko vs. Dean Malenko (7/11/89), which was just hideous. I'm not having a go because it's one of the greatest sets ever put together by anyone, but it does seem like the Funks 80s run got kind of shafted at the expense of stuff from 88 and 89 that really didn't matter that much. Also, how come 12/04/85 didn't make the cut with two nominations? --------- The other thing I'll say is that you've completely ruled out Dory, but how much of him in the 70s have you watched? And how much of him outside of All Japan? Just wondering really. -------- Anyway thanks again, these notes will make for a good basis of comparison when I hit some of this stuff soon.

If there was ever a job for Kelly, it's the Denucci HoF case!

Coming off the back of 12/06/77, which is a snoozefest, I thought it was positively action-packed. There is a moment about two thirds of the way in when Dory gets an armlock on and you can feel the energy being sucked out of the match, but I thought Robinson did an excellent job of keeping things interesting for 90% of the time. I think it is the sort of match that would confirm someone's prejudices about Dory, it really isn't one of his better performances, but I think Robinson more or less carries it to ****. It's a feather in his cap. I'll tell you what Pete, it's a hell of a lot more exciting than those fucking Inoki vs. Backlund matches we watched (and Valentine vs. Backlund). *Okay, okay, I'll get my coat*

Yeah, God, don't let that happen.

For guys looking at the Billy Robinson case, I've just watched two matches that will surely add to it: Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk vs. Billy Robinson and Les Thornton (12/01/1980) - just a fun sprint, but you can see how great Robinson was at throwing and taking bombs here. and the interplay with Terry Funk is heated. Dory Funk Jr vs. Billy Robinson (03/07/82) - 30-minute match and more or less a showcase for what Robinson could do. Good performance from him, playing heel, keeping it moving, good intensity, and big bombs towards the end. He also takes a big Curt-Hennig style bump. I did also watch Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk vs. Billy Robinson and Horst Hoffman (12/06/77), which really left me cold, but I could see some people enjoying that one. He does the random big Hennig-bump in that one too. -------- I'll tell you where I am on Robinson: on his day, he's a fantastic wrestler. But he's also a guy, who I think, could dog it when he wanted to. He had disappointing performances in AWA right around the time he had that match for MACW / AJPW with Dory. Suggests he could turn it off and on, which is the sort of thing that I've seen Bret Hart criticised for. Not decided where he'll finish for me yet.

It's been a disappointing haul for the recent batches of Dory I've been watching, but finally another match breaches the B+ line. Dory Funk Jr vs. Billy Robinson (03/07/82) Enjoyable 30-minute match worked at a fairly brisk pace for these two. More of a showcase for Robinson than Dory though. Rating: **** / B+

Dory's rep has always been as a technical worker who is world class on the mat. While he's been in some great matches so far, the best performances have been in heated brawls. We've only glimpsed Dory's technical prowess against Horst Hoffman. Because I find Inoki so deathly dull, I can't face the prospect of that hour-long today, but I do want to see some more "technical Dory". I thought, well, who better to see him with than Billy Robinson? The following three matches were among the most difficult to find of all the matches I've tracked down for this. And thanks to those who helped me out in finding them. Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk vs. Billy Robinson and Horst Hoffman (12/06/77) This one has no sound for the first minute or so. You can find it here. This is from the 1977 RWTL in All Japan. Hoffman and Robinson are a bit of a European dreamteam. Terry has a very short buzz cut here and doesn't quite look like himself. First ten minutes feature some neat chain wrestling between Dory and Hoffman based around various headlock reversals. Robinson then takes over with a head scissors, which Dory tries to headstand his way out of. Bit dry so far. Terry tags in and gets an atomic drop on Robinson. Robinson takes things back to the mat with a headlock and eventually hits what is basically a Stone Cold Stunner before tagging Hoffman in. Hoffman works on Terry's arm now. The phrase "he's twisting him like a pretzel" comes to mind. Funny moment now when Terry deadlifts Hoffman while still in the arm hold and deposits him in the Funks' corner to tag out. Dory comes in and Hoffman gives Terry this slow double take, quite funny and surreal. Armdrag by Dory. Cool suplex thing by Hoffman. Robinson back in. He works Dory's arm a bit but then takes a randomly massive bump all the way to the outside after Dory elbows him. He sold that like Curt Hennig! Bearhug by Dory now. Terry takes over. Eventually Robinson gets in a belly-to-belly suplex to break it, but Terry goes right back to it. Tags in Dory who takes over and dumps him in the turnbuckle. Here come some uppercuts. But it's back to that bearhug. We get a shot of the young Jumbo Tsururta in the crowd studying the competition. Quite cool. Double forearm smash by the funks now and Terry tries to turn Robinson over for a Boston crab. Obvious point but it's good psychology to follow up an extended bearhug with a Boston crab. They've been focusing on Robinson's back for about 10 minutes now. Terry rocks back and forth on this Boston crab. A lot of men would have submitted by now. Terry turns it back over for a pin attempt then tags in Dory. Hoffman is getting a bit pissed off on the apron now. Dory turns Robinson over for another Boston crab but Robinson powers out. But Dory goes right back to it and gets the full crab again. He bounces on the small of Robinson's back, then pulls it back and twists him before Robinson powers out again. Dory runs over to prevent the tag and brings Terry back in. Robinson eventually gets to tag out and Hoffman is hot. Terry ends up bailing. Back in and he's ready to fight. Hoffman tags out. Now I don't understand that at all, Robinson had taken almost twenty minutes of punishment and he's tagging back in? Robinson absolutely levels Terry with a loud smacking elbow and Terry seems to shout "you fucking bitch" at him, or words to that effect. Test of strength spot now. Crowd seem distracted by something, which sometimes seems to happen on these All Japan shows. Terry goes for the spinning toehold and Robinson quickly scarpers. Dory back in. Hoffman back in. Headlock takeover by Hoffman. Dory counters the headlock with a shinbreaker. Standing leglock. Terry takes over on it. Dory back in. Double falling leglock! They are clearly setting Hoffman up for the spinning toe hold. But Hoffman is back to come back with a surfboard thingy. Full nelson! Don't seem to see that very often. Hoffman gets Dory in a pinning predicament. Again something during this gets the crowd laughing. Snapmare by Hoffman and a very nasty kneesnap to Dory's head. Robinson in. Backbreaker! Tombstone piledriver!! Couple of uppercuts before Dory flips him out of the ring. Terry decides he wants to give Robinson a little helping hand to get back in the ring and they brawl outside. Back in and Robinson gets an abdominal stretch on Terry. Things threaten to boil over now but don't quite and both guys tag out. Dory gives Hoffman a couple of reverse knife edges and goes for the big butterfly suplex. Hoffman struggles. It would be lovely for something to happen. Robinson comes back in and does a series of headscissor takeovers. Hoffman come back in with uppercuts and a side salto. Terry in and it's a slugfest. Hoffman does some nasty shots on Terry while holding back his arm now and Robinson comes in to hit a butterfly suplex. Hoffman is busting out some stiff chops now. Terry is spagghetti legged. Gets the tag though and Dory hits a back suplex on Robinson. Uppercuts now. Forearm smash. Spinning toehold! Spinning toehold! The bell goes for a 45-minute time-limit draw. Dory shakes hands with Robinson and Hoffman, but there's a standoff between Terry and Robinson. Will they shake hands? They do. I have to say that this was pretty boring for the most part. Almost an hour and the matwork surprisingly lacked intensity or brutality. I was disappointed by the Europeans here who were not as stiff as I would have hoped. While the psychology was good in parts, the matwork was flatout boring at times just eating up clock. When the high spots do come, for whatever reason, the don't feel very special either. Crowd was mostly sitting on their hands too. Match felt like it drifted at times, expected more from these two teams. **1/2 Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk vs. Billy Robinson and Les Thornton (12/01/1980) This has now been kindly uploaded to youtube by someone. It's from the 1980 RWTL in AJPW. Funks start out with Thornton and neither of them seem to be in the mood for matwork. Forearm smash by Dory. Piledriver by Terry. Robinson tags in and immediately nails Terry with a Rick Rude neckbreaker and a big uppercut. Thornton back in with an uppercut. Scoop-slam suplex (???) by Thornton. He gets Terry in a chinlock now and pounds on his head while doing it. Robinson in: butterfly suplex! Uppercut and Terry is noodle-legged. Dory tags in and calms his brother down. Running forearm smash by Dory. He goes for the spinning toehold and Robinson bails! Terry goes out after him and they brawl outside. All four men brawl and they pull apart. Back in the ring and it's Terry vs. Robinson to start, but Dory seems to want to go and Terry tags out. This really pisses Robinson off who swings at Terry at the apron, who in turn gets really pissed off himself. Another big stand off. Finally it's Dory vs. Robinson, but Robinson is distracted by Terry on the apron. Big backbreaker by Robinson! Two uppercuts. Dory comesback with a backdrop to reverse a piledriver attempt. Full bridge up to come back to a vertical base, and again. Oh! It seems like Dory pinned Robinson on the second bridge up. He's not happy! Terry jumps up and down in victory rather childishly to rub it in. Well, well, forget about technical wrestling! This was a really fun 10-minute sprint and bomb-throwing contest worked at a good pace. It was really Terry who made this match though, his constant goading of Robinson made for a very entertaining encounter. Very fun. ***1/2 Dory Funk Jr vs. Billy Robinson (03/07/82) This match took place in Charlotte for Mid-Atlantic but on Baba's TV and seems to have been a whole card co-promoted by JCP and AJPW. Many listings have it down as being on MACW TV but as far as I know it only aired in Japan and it is on one of the old G+ classics (#41), but you can also find it here. Mr Charisma Jim Crockett Jr himself is here to introduce the match to the crowd. As far as I know this is the only Dory vs. Robinson match that exists on tape. It's for Dory's NWA International title. As things start Robinson does the massive oversell on Dory's elbow again and goes tumbling out of the ring to the floor. He almost lands on a guy in the crowd and threatens to punch him, which gets some good heel heat. Robinson looks like a great heel with that moustache! Full nelson by Robinson. He has this applied for some time. Dory struggles and gets a snapmare for his troubles, then a swinging neckbreaker. Robinson is doing a good job playing to the crowd and heeling in this match, he's jawing with them and playing up. Cheeky slap on Dory, who slaps him back and gets in an armdrag into an arm bar. There's a shot of the crowd and a guy looks like a fat, bloated William Shatner. Wristlock by Dory. This is more like the matwork I'd want to see from him. Robinson kips up but Dory shoves him back down controlling that wrist. Random aside: every time I see Robinson with the tash, he reminds me of The Bloodbottler from the film version of Roald Dahl's BFG. Fairplay, Robinson seems intent to work this at a fast pace. He's been very agile and sudden with his movements in the counters. He targets Dory's back with a few stiff shots now. Dory comes back with uppercuts and a Boston Crab. Fifteen minutes gone and this has been a good match so far. Backbreaker by Robinson. Goes for a Boston Crab himself but Dory twists and powers out. Abdominal stretch by Robinson. Somehow Dory reverses it. Both men tumble out of the ring. Back in and Dory hits his big uppercuts a few times. Robinson comes back with a forearm. Dory goes to an arm lock now which somewhat takes the life out of the match when it seemed to be picking up. Robinson comes back and targets the leg. Some stiff shots while he's doing so. Dory reverses this leglock and Robinson screams out in pain. Forearms and elbows everywhere now. Butterfly suplex by Robinson! That gets two. Gutwrench suplex by Robinson! Barely a one count. Spinning toe hold! Spinning toe hold! Has Dory got this? No, Robinson gets an inside cradle. Backbreaker! But Robinson hurts his own knee. Another spinning toehold attempt. ... Holy shit!! There's a cut to the crowd and ... WHAT IS THAT? Ha ha ha ha. It's Tweedle Dum from Alice in Wonderland. Series of nearfalls now and the bell goes for a 30-minute time-limit draw. This was one of the better Dory singles matches I've seen, but in truth it was the Billy Robinson show. I don't think Dory is particularly compelling on the mat working a hold, he's better working counter sequences. Robinson was terrific in this match from start to finish, and those considering him for their GOAT lists should definitely give it a watch. Not the greatest advert for Dory, but he did hang in there. He might have been a bit more emotive when selling -- he was really shown up by Robinson's screams of pain here. Despite this being 30 minutes, Robinson insisted on keeping it moving. He was definitely on for this one. ****

If you're a Capcom guy, there is a wrestler in Final Fight who is actually called "Andre", in some versions "Andore" -- more or less the same design as Hugo in the later Street Fighter games. Some people claim that Haggar from Final Fight was based on Jesse Ventura, but I don't see that since it came out in 1989 and I don't think Ventura's political career had started.

Road Warrior Hawk is one of my least favourite workers because he's ridiculously selfish and I get the impression that the selfishness isn't simply "because it's part of the act" but it's because somewhere in his mind 1) he doesn't understand that it's okay for the babyface to sell sometimes and 2) he legitimately believes the Road Warriors to be the best act on the planet and therefore they should, by rights, sell for no one. It's Bruiser Brody syndrome. It's at its most egregious in the Flair match from 1987 and after about 1990 when the Road Warriors are clearly past their peak as a big act but Hawk can't or won't accept it. He's still working like that well into the mid-90s. I honestly hate the guy. Animal was just there. I remember thinking as a kid that he was the asskicker of the team and especially in WWF would be on the end of the hot tag. But looking back it's clear that everything is built around Arch Dickhead Hawk. Come it think of it, Hawk is challenging Chief Jay Strongbow as my least favourite wrestler ever. There might be worse, but in terms of who I dislike the most Hawk is right there.

Recently, when I've been out and about, whenever I walk past a lamp post or pillar, I've found myself *really* wanting to nail it with a massive lariat. Few times I've been out with someone and have just gone for it. They probably think I'm nuts, but also found it pretty amusing since I was wearing a tweed blazer at the time. But it's surely a tell-tale sign that I've watched altogether too much wrestling. What are your symptoms?

How about getting rid of people who seem to do little but whine and push meta-forum discussion rather than talking about wrestling?

I watched this last week and thought it was really great. I have to ask though: does Dragon Master have any other performances on that sort of level? It just blows my mind that that's the same guy from WCW a month earlier.

I'll just say that I'm roughly at the same point in my 80s NJPW viewing as Charles, and Fujinami absolutely has a shot at my top 10, possibly even top 5. I said this by the time I hit September 1980. I really liked his match with Chavo (5/9/80) and with Isamu Teranishi (10/8/81) The only thing I see potentially hurting him vs. Flair and Jumbo is that I'm a big character guy and while Flair and Jumbo have that in spades, Fujinami has been kind of bland so far in that department. Other than that, he has a quality that I'm pretty much demanding from the top tier, which is: ability to work a variety of styles against a variety of different opponents.