JerryvonKramer

True but since WON-reading wrestling fans have historically been hyper-aware of nepotism, I'm not too worried about that.

I'm not going to consider drawing but I am going to consider "consistently put in meaningful positions" -- this says something about a guy. Longevity means squat if you were a jobber for the second half of your career.

I've probably reviewed three Destroyer matches but not in Microscope. I do see why Grimmas has made the rule though. Some guys have gone under fairly intense scrutiny, so why should some get a free pass. But maybe expand to "three reviews on PWO"? I will aim to finish the Harley Race and Dory projects before the year is out. This is proving a great catalyst for footage watching.

I have a question Grimmas, a lot of the guys I want to nominate are not really contenders for the number 1 spot, but guys I'd want to see represented in the 100. Do I go ahead and nominate or not?

It is lacking this classic: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyokoi_ken-patera-murders-a-promo_shortfilms

What will happen regardless of the criteria is that the people who make long posts and argue will do so, and the ones who make little short one-line posts will do that, and the ones who lurk and don't post much won't post much, because as great as PWO is, it's still the internet.

While Sight and Sound don't consider box office, they surely do consider "historical significance" (AFI certainly does). So ... why don't we include "historical significance" as a nice if slightly nebulous criterion, and leave drawing to one side? That way, we can include older matches that none of us have seen, and leave the door open for your Hogan vs. Andres while not making it a straight up numbers game.

Titans Xtra - Lawler and Dundee: A New Hope https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-lawler-and-dundee-a-new-hope Johnny and Pete look at the Star Wars of the Jerry Lawler / Bill Dundee trilogy. We look at the build and the epic first match. Discussion includes: the greatness of Lance Russell, Dundee as a headliner, Lawler's greatness as a headliner and promo. Buckle up and enjoy the ride. Footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nndnrlQjZvs

I might just tell them to stick it, and write a book just by myself. I don't see why people who know absolutely nothing about wrestling think they can write a book on it. Their refusal to get into specifics wouldn't be tolerated if the topic was more exalted. Imagine writing a book on Shakespeare where you don't actually get into specific plays. All it boils down to is the fact they know performance theory, and they don't know wrestling. That's all it is. You might call it a lack of basic research. I wasn't really thinking about doing anything on wrestling ever in my career, but this has got me thinking that if it's going to be done, I'd prefer for it to be done right.

I've been emailing back and forth with these guys. I very deliberately named dropped stuff like Magnum vs. Tully or Jumbo vs. Tenryu as a kind of litmus test to see where exactly they are coming from. I was mildly disappointed by the reaction which I half expected. Namely, that this is a book for an academic audience and they want to write about things that would be of interest to them. In other words, they want to keep the discussion of wrestling on a general and vague level and not get into specific matches or feuds. I think this is a real mistake, for all sorts of reasons. Anyway, they have said that they are "very interested" in hearing my thoughts on how wrestling connects with my "work on Shakespeare or critical literary theory or how that body of work might come to bear on pro-wrestling". I was a bit dubious to be honest. However, I still feel like I have to do something. I thought I'd share what I wrote back to them -- it might spark more interesting discussion here than it does in the email chain. For what it's worth, I do think it's too easy generalise about wrestling fans and wrestling in general, and anything I write for this thing is going to be along these lines. I don't want to be an apologist for wrestling, but I don't want to allow it to get buried either.

I've been trying to figure out why Yearbook watching as been so hard for me and I think it's because I find all the individual threads fiddly, the matches aren't in order, and I get distracted trying to find them. It doesn't really suit my posting style. Also, I tend to do long-ish reviews of matches, which is time consuming. So I'm trying something new: mostly single-line reviews in the manner of Robert Christgau, all in one thread using the patented letter-grade system for ratings. Picking up in March 1990, I'm going to try finally to finish this Yearbook (it's only been 2 years!) this way. Will try to do an hour or two a day. Nobuhiko Takada vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara (UWF 2/27/90) Excessively boring Emperor's New Clothes wrestling for the more discerning fan to pretend they like. Picks up when they do some kicks. C Negro Casas vs. Yoshihiro Asai (H-UWF 3/2/90) Spotfest with some botches from Asai and apparerent cooperation, despite stiff strike exchanges. Lacks cohesiveness. C+ Perro Aguayo vs. Gran Hamada (H-UWF 3/2/90) Aguayo is just awesome, like a Mexican Stan Hansen. Lack of structure, woeful ref bump and disrespectful crowd hurt the match, but nonetheless enjoyable. B- Steve Williams & Terry Gordy vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (JIP) (AJPW 3/2/90) Yatsu is done. Some good action despite that. C+ Angel Azteca, El Dandy & El Texano vs. Fuerza Guerrera, Pierroth Jr & Jerry Estrada (EMLL 3/2/90) Difficult to follow or care about. Match never seems to get going, even after restart. D+ Louisville Slugger: Kevin Sullivan, Buzz Sawyer & Cactus Jack (Power Hour 3/2/90) Sullivan flubs a lot of lines, Cactus isn't insane enough. Sawyer shows them how it's done. Jerry Lawler vs. Jimmy Valiant (USWA TX 3/2/90) Can see why Valiant is Johnny Sorrow's hero. Mostly psychological duel with good character work but lacklustre action. Awful commentary. C+ Ultimate Warrior Promo/Hulk Hogan Promo (Superstars 3/3/90) Warrior's promo is so batshit insane I don't know where to start, so I won't. Jerry Lawler vs. Jimmy Valiant (MSC) (USWA 3/3/90) Nice payoff, but I think Boogie Woogie devalues the title and makes the promotion into a joke. Jerry Lawler Interview/Jimmy Valiant spot (USWA 3/3/90) Lawler wants a new set, great segment. Great celebration promo from Valiant. "Only king for a week" and referencing past short-term champs is a nice touch by Lawler. 1 Jerry Lawler Interview/Jimmy Valiant spot (USWA 3/3/90) KING FISH. GOLD FISH. When Valiant shouts "Jimmy", he sounds like Timmy off South Park. 2 Jerry Lawler + Furniture (USWA 3/3/90) Can't believe they are showing the desk being installed. Awesome. Lawler has a big armchair, Dave only gets a stool, ha ha. X2 Southern Rockers music video/Jimmy Valiant Promo (USWA 3/3/90) Jimmy! DISC 6 Jerry Lawler + Nate the Rat (USWA 3/3/90) Like a kitsch-y, Memphis version of the Virgil angle, but with pie. Jerry Lawler + Chris Champion (USWA 3/3/90) Lawler is such a tremendous bully beef character this week. What a dastardly fellow he is. Champion deserves it for that track suit. Jerry Lawler vs. Ken Raper (USWA 3/3/90) This has been an excellent episode of USWA. Ric Flair Interview/Lex Luger Interview (WCWSN 3/3/90) [i'm skipping WCW stuff because I watched it in WTBBP prep, comments in threads] Tony Atlas Promo (ICW 3/3/90) Good-looking badass promo marred by VQ. Tony Atlas Promo/Paul E. Dangerously Promo/Austin Idol music video (ICW 3/3/90) Atlas is positioned very well to shine here, great promo. Diamond District: Pink Assassin (ICW 3/3/90) Ridiculous. Paul E. Dangerously & Lethal Weapons Promo (ICW 3/3/90) Hilariously bad promotion. Diamond Dallas page vignette (ICW 3/3/90) Nice ass on the lady on the right. God gawd. Enough ICW now. Tiger Mask vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 3/6/90) Retrospective significance and hot finishing stretch don't save this from ultimate mediocrity. B- Steve Williams & Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (Finish Only) (AJPW 3/6/90) One wonders why full version of this was left off. Looks excellent. Destruction of Tenryu's leg. Hansen turn!!! Jumbo run in! Tenryu tells him to fuck off! Awesome. Based on what we saw: B+ Entertainment Tonight (3/8/90) Look at that hair! Billy Graham is talking. I smell some shit going down.Hi Bruno! Jeff Jarrett & Bill Dundee vs. Billy Travis & Terrence Garvin (USWA TX 3/9/90) Better Garvin in the ring as a chickenshit than in the booth stinking up commentary. Bad tights on Dundee. C Steve Austin vs. Chris Adams (USWA TX 3/9/90) Nothing much to write home about. C-

If we factor in drawing, then Steamboat vs. Flair, Clash 6 probably wouldn't get in.

I would like an account at WC, but it doesn't seem possible. Anyone here in with the admin over there?

Here's a question: if a wrestler has come right out and said that he got blown up at the start of a match and so sat in a headlock for 25 minutes, do you let that affect your grade for the match? To me, it's an admission that something has gone wrong and that the headlock is literally just killing time. This is the case for Valentine vs. Backlund, hour-long match, in which for the first 30 minutes they literally sit on the mat in a headlock, not moving much. A fucking 25-minute headlock! Both Backlund and Valentine have admitted that this was because Valentine was blown up. How can that not be a huge knock on the match? Yet, various posters here give that shit show five stars. One case where I side with the wrestlers.

Judging Backlund vs. Valentine against anything is a bit unfair, Chad, because that match shouldn't even be in contention! (Just kidding! Well, not really, that match sucks to hell and back. I'd much prefer to see the era represented by something like the Death Match with Patera) I think there's merit in pitting stuff like Garvin vs. Flair against your Malenko vs. Guerrero type stuff. I think having the categories too small will make it too easy to get in.

And then he dropped off again? WHY? EDIT: Oh no, he's on the current ballot. I appear to have missed that looking over it before. I think he's one of the stronger candidates in US/Canada.

I think if you split JCP and WCW, which there is a case for, it might overly skew things against WWF if you don't make a similar split on that side. Perhaps the "pots" should be bigger. (W)WWF/E JCP/WCW "Territories" Japan Lucha Europe And that's it. Macro categories as opposed to granular.

It seems insane to me that Slaughter fell off and then never got back on. I'd have thought he'd be a slamdunk and looks like a massive oversight to me.

Flair vs. Steamboat (Clash 6): https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/where-the-big-boys-play-rewind-ric-flair-vs-ricky-steamboat-clash-6 A few notes on this: 1. The first 5-6 mins is actually from the Clash 5 review when we were discussing the dynamic between the two characters in the feud. I mention that I was married in 2010 to a girl I'd been going out with from the age of 17. At the time of recording I'd just turned 30. In a couple of weeks I'll turn 32, and will have been divorced for a year. A year during which ... let's just say I've been much closer to Flair than to Steamboat, so it was interesting listening back to this. 2. Chad and I talked about this match more and longer than any other, so this is not the FULL review, there's about 20 minutes or so chopped out. If you want it in full, go back to WTBBP #34, it's about 1 hour 30 minutes in. 3. Including in this is the "Four Faces of Flair" talking point, which if you want to read more about is in the Flair vs. Bret Microscope thread. I would link it, but I actually can't bear to look at it any more, my heart can't take it.

Well let's not get too far off topic, but in general I think a lot of the jazz-rap stuff is very overrated, especially De La Soul and early Tribe. Not really my scene. I will say that I like Pete Rock and CL Smooth's Mecca and the Soul Brother, which has jazz-y elements. But I see what you are saying, if "jazz" includes people from Frank Sinatara to Norah Jones and Amy Whinehouse, then sure, there are some more "jazz" records that I like. But I am generally opposed to the ethos and "philosophy" behind jazz, which I see as mostly being a slightly wanky form of showing off, I don't like 20-minute Prog-rock tracks with extended solos in them for the same reason. I'm against the general aesthetic. In a desperate bid to tie this into wrestling, I'll say that for broadly the same reasons I am mostly disinclined to get behind exhibition-y Lucha matwork. I don't really care if its intricate and looks nice, it seems "a slightly wanky form of showing off" in much the same way that jazz does. I'd probably even take boring, repetitive and unimaginative Backlund matwork over the most excessive of the Lucha stuff.

OJ, do you have any particular thoughts on the weird Australia megamix category?

I'm also exactly half way through and just wanted to say that I'm listening. I'm not a regular VoW listener, but will be following this series with close interest.

From what I've heard, Matysik was painfully average as an announcer. Just my take, of course, but in no way does he stand out as being outstanding in that category. When a guy like Jesse Ventura -- hands down the best colour commentator ever to get in the booth -- is struggling to stay on the ballot, the notion that Matysik should go in based on his announcing talent is literally sickening to me. SICKENING. We have some Titans shows planned for HoF season (where my Ivan pimping will culminate -- each Titan is backing one candidate, so four Xtras on this), so between us, the VoW shows and whatever Dylan and Dave have brewing on Wrestling Culture, this year should have more comprehensive coverage of the whole thing than ever before.

Is Jeff Walton in? The only argument I can see for Larry M is that he's done a lot to keep the memory of St. Louis alive, but is that HoF material?

I don't mind Jimmy Smith's Back at the Chicken Shack, I suppose. And Birdland by Weather Report. But in general I detest most jazz I've listened to -- well over a 100 albums, which is the point at which I give up.