JerryvonKramer

Given that I own this pretty terrible TNT 07/24/84 show three times, I might as well take some screengrabs before taking a sledgehammer to one of them. Taken from the 24/7 version because VQ is better: Tiger Chung Lee chopping a brick. B. Brian Blair making Paul Orndorff's leg humble: Old boring as fuck ref, Dick Woehrle: SD Jones dances as the steel-drum band from Trinidad do their thing: They were very amused by this. Me, less so: The Nostalgia files on TNT are really interesting and worth tracking down: He had this boot custom made in El Paso: Betty holds the mic for "The Fish Song":

I certainly think there's demand for it.

It's time once again to get in the Cheesemobile for TNT. If you recall from last time, the show was taking a week off, so we're two weeks later now. Except whoever sent me this disc has it mis-labled and I find out later that this is a show from a week later again (grrr, this guy was not Will or James!): July 24th, 1984 brought to you "in part by Levi's jeans" Vince introduces Lord Alfred as "the great uncle of Inspector Clouseau" which causes Alfred to crack up for about a minute. This is certainly one of the more fun wrestling shows that ever aired. The big news this week is that SD Jones has brought some of his bretheren from Antigua along to the TNT studio for some steel drum action. Vince gives us his ultimate Vince throaty voice "TUESDAY NIGHT TITANS". How exciting. Our first guest tonight: Tiger Chung Lee. Vince asks him why he relies so much on karate moves. Lee talks about how important Tae-kwondo is for defence. Vince disagrees, and says that he's mainly used it for offense to date. We get a clip of him in action now. Tiger Chung Lee vs. Steve Lombardi Okerlund is on commentary. Some armdrags by Lombardi to start. Lee gets on top with the martial arts. Very soft chop. Lee's offense is incredibly pedestrian. He wins with a Scorpion deathlock which Okerlund calls a "reverse Indian deathlock". Not a very good outing for Lee here. Back in the studio and Lee has a "Japanese samurai sword practice stick". He has some bricks in front of him, he's going to chop the brick in two and does so. "Very impressive" says Vince. Solid oak now. "Very impressive". Two bits of solid oak board now. He does it, although his hand is bleeding. THREE solid oak boards now. Lee tells Vince to shut up for a while because he's concentrating. Hi-YAH. He does it. Vince introduces another clip of Lee now in action with Mr Fuji, he teases some "dissention in the ranks" of the Japanese tagteam: Mr Fuji and Tiger Chung Lee vs. Afa and Sika Joined in progress. Lee is getting beaten up and Fuji keeps turning his back on the tag. Fuji walks away from the ring and leaves Lee high and dry to take the pin. Okerlund and Dick Graham are appalled. Fuji comes back now and grabs the mic chord and chokes out Lee! He's fully turned on his partner here. Lee grabs his kendo stick. Fuji bails. So is this meant to be a Tiger Chung Lee face run now? The Philly crowd are cheering for him. Back to the studio. Lee says that there's no way he's getting back with Fuji now and wants to face him in a singles match. Vince and Alfred wish him luck. Up next ... the feature match up, but first Vince needs to shill some upcoming tour dates: This is a rematch from an issue these two gentlemen had in St. Louis. It's ... B. Brian Blair vs. Paul Orndroff! This is from the Meadowleads Arena with Monsoon on commentary with *I believe* Red Bastien. Gary Michael Capetta in full on Capetta mode. Dick Woehrle and Orndroff argue. Orndorff wants Blair back in his corner so he can de-robe. Orndroff now argues with the ring attendant about how exactly to carry his robe back to the lockerroom. The Paula chants break out. Dick Woehrle and Orndroff keep having issues. Blair has been waiting pretty patiently for this match to start. I like his standard-issue-1984-moustache. Orndorff has now spent at least 7 minutes stalling. It's good stalling though. He doesn't seem to want Blair to actually touch him. He eventually suckers him in and takes advantage. "A pearl harbour number". I've always liked Orndorff, he works with good intensity. Big bodyslam. Up to the top rope. Misses. Blair goes to work on Orndorff's injured knee immediately. Good psychology by B. Brian here. Decent little stretch of offense from him here now. Pretty much stays on this knee for the next 8-10 minutes until Orndroff hits an inzaghuri (yes!). He sells the leg very well here after he's back on top. Dick Woehrle is wearing some pretty funky 70s flares here. Orndroff dumps Blair outside. King of the Mountain now. Blair comes back in and hits a big crossbody. Just a hope spot, Orndorff snyches in a chinlock. This match is going on quite a long time now. Nice backbreaker by Orndroff for 2. Orndroff thinks it's a slow count and gets in Woehrle's face again. Another 2, more jawing with the ref. Blair starts his comeback now. Scoop slam? No reversal. REVERSAL. OHHH Blair thought he had it. Irish whip. Blair SKINS THE CAT. Blair a house of fire now. Big knee lift. Second rope elbow. Blair is getting decent pops here. Bodyslam. Nasty knee drop on the forehead. Tries to roll him up, no. Slam -- no Orndorff reverses into a small package and that's it. He's still selling that leg. I must think about structure: 1. Sneak attack to start by Orndorff. 2. LONG section with Blair on top working on a body part (could call this a delayed "shine") 3. Now Orndorff gets his heat segment 4. Comeback and finish Now, as focused and decently worked as the second segment was here, I am starting to think that outside of AWA, a longish shine sequence at the start of the match is there for the sole purpose of eating up time. The stuff on Orndorff's leg didn't actually go anywhere here, but that's ok, it was Blair's gameplan but didn't work. But it would have been nice for Blair to remember the leg was injured during the comeback instead of going for the bodyslams and turnbuckle elbows. If he was working on the leg as his strategy, why not go back to it? It just exposes that segment with Blair on top for what it was: a time kill. Anyway, back to the studio. Far too much wrestling on tonight's TNT for my tastes. Lord Alfred thinks that Dick Woehrle was a bit tardy in that match and criticises his positioning. Vince agrees that positioning is crucial. After the break, they are going to be discussing referees further as Dick Woehrle is going to be the next guest! A bit short on guests this week Vince? Whilry? Seriously? Lord Alfred has a very negative view of refs because they make snap decisions which are often wrong. Vince thinks it is a thankless job. Alfred agrees but at the same time looks for perfection in everything. Vince says that the verbal abuse they take can be a bit much. Dick Woehrle is here now and LMAO he gets heel heat from the studio crowd. They loudly boo him. Ha ha ha. Woehrle looks like he's in his 60s. They talk about an angle with George "The Animal" Steele. This is rather dull stuff. Woehrle is wearing a matching red and white spotted tie and handkerchief. Some tape footage now of Greg Valentine and Rocky Jonhson. Johnson is blatantly using the fists. Vince wants to know why the ref didn't DQ him. Woehrle pretty much says it's up to his discretion. This segment has been woeful. Vince wants to talk about the POWER of the referee in the ring. Woehrle talks about trying to stay objective while letting certain things go for the good of the match. I really like the IDEA of talking about refs like this like they do in real sports, but by god this was boring as fuck. Woehrle says that he's been chased down alleys with chains and bottles. Thankfully this interview is done. Now it's TIME FOR THE MUSIC and coming up next, "SD Jones remembers the Islands ..." Special Delivery Jones now gets a polite but muted applause. Vince says that "as of late, your career has catapulted, it's been taking giant strides". So SD Jones must have been on the receiving end of a push some time in 1984. SD Jones says he's been there for 10 years and "somehow it's going pretty good now". Awww, he's so humble. He says he's been watching tapes, studying refs and learning from his mistakes. He says he's happy to have brought his band to TNT tonight. Vince asks him when he was last back in Antigua. "1969 ... this is my life, I have to do it. But when I get back home, I'm gonna have some good good times". Vince asks him how he got into wrestling. Jones says he used to be into boxing and weightlifting. But he had to stop hitting the weights so much because he "looked like a big rock". We have a clip of Jones in action now ... SD Jones vs. "Danny Green from Rooster, Kentucky" Green has a big Dylan Waco beard. He gets into some jobber offense before being pinned after a headbutt. SD Jones has still got it! Jones talks about beings 15-20 years in the business and recovering from a broken shoulder. Jones says he's never going to give up, he still has title ambitions. He's wrestled all over the world and in every arena going. But he wants a championship belt. Dream on SD. But for now he's excited about his band from Trinidad who play some kettle drums. SD Jones does a bit of shuffle dancing. Time for everyone's favourite feature now in what has been a pretty putrid show so far: THE MAIL BAG. Topical (Miley Cyrus): Vince has the giant Hulk foam finger and both he and Alfred think it's hilarious. Parkersburgh, Wyoming (WHERE?!): There's nothing to do here except wait for our favourite show TNT to come on. We're going to be taking a trip to LA soon. Do you have wrestling matches in LA? Vince: (cracking up) Well, as a matter of fact, our next guest might well have been in Parkersburgh, Wyoming once: Tony Altomare! Did they make up Parkersburgh?! And what, that's it for the mail? Mannn.. This is a nostalgia bit now, Altomare says he's been around so long that he was a fan of Lord Alfred Hayes. Hayes says that he's younger that Altomare. We're about to head into this week's classic clip which this week is Chief Jay Strongbow & Sonny King vs. King Curtis & Baron Mikel Scicluna from 1972. They talk about King Curtis for a bit now. Lord Alfred claims that he had an English mother. We join the match with Strongbow doing his war dance hulk up. The heels cut him off though. Scicluna has a really shitty nerve hold on Strongbow and at one point he and Curtis do a DOUBLE shitty nerve hold. King Curtis has hair here and looks not unlike a fat Bruiser Brody. Sonny King gets the hot tag and it looks like the heels get the win. We don't see the three count because it's back to the studio. That match looked AWFUL. We see a pic of Altomare from 1962 now. I do like these "nostalgia files" segments. Vince says that his life would change when he starting teaming with a young Lou Albano. We get a pic now of Albano, looking young and slim with Altomare in 1963. The two of them were tag champs in the 1960s. Altomare says that after about 13 years, Albano got too obsessed with money and thought there might be an easier way in the profession. Altomare has decent charisma. More music now from SD Jones and his band. Jones is actually playing the drums now. You can see in this setting that SD Jones was actually quite a big guy, he's about twice as wide as the average drummer here. This Trinidad band segment is going on for some time. It's in moments like this I start to think about what I'm doing with my life. I guess if those LJN action figures went into production around this time to ship in 1985, I can see why Jones had one. The tape runs out now as is my patience with the disc seller. Andre was meant to come out in the final segment. I better check the 07/24/84 disc now to see if it's got the 07/17/84 show on it. EDIT: So the 07/24/84 disc has the exact same TNT show on it, but taped from WWE 24/7 instead of taken from a VHS taping. How annoying. This does mean that I have the last 10 minutes of the show with Andre on it however ... Lord Alfred has Andre's jacket on and is naturally swamped in it. Video footage now ... Andre vs. Alexi Smirnoff Basic squash but Smirnoff does get an armbar on at one point. They welcome Andre to the studio now. They talk about Big John Studd. Andre has tremendous charisma. Andre says he recently lost 100lbs. Vince notes that when he went to Japan he gained a lot of weight, and asks him why. Andre says the Japanese just wanted to feed him all the time. Andre says all his clothes are from Japan apart from his boots which are from El Paso, Texas. He puts his massive boot on the desk. It is absolutely massive. Andre has been one of the best interviewees on the show so far. He just oozes charisma and star appeal. Andre puts his hand over Alfred's face. Vince: "That's the best you've ever looked!" Vince asks Andre if he's ever been to Antigua. He said yes, he's been there 9 months ago. Andre says he wants to sing a song. He said last he was in Japan they all wanted him to sing a song ... THE FISH SONG. Oh my ... so Andre and SD Jones's Trindidadian band now with ... The Fish Song. They take a while to get the tempo right. "Too fast. Too loud". He wants it just right before singing. Andre wants someone called Betty to come. This woman Betty comes now. He asks her to hold the mic. What the fuck is this? lol Andre starts doing fish motions now. SD Jones's band starts cracking up. "I'll be back with the whale song" My god. That was quite funny, highlight in a pretty bad show. As if things couldn't get any better ... KAMALA vs. Jose Luis Riveria Christ, that's all I wanted. Kamala. Freddie Blassie leads him out with Friday. This looks like Kamala's debut from the way Vince is talking on commentary. "What has Fred Blassie found here?" Someone called "Tony" is on commentary with Vince. He has a smooth voice. I think it's Tony the Tiger from the Frosties ads. Kamala starts strong with some chops. Belly slaps. Chop. Big Splash. Big Splash. 1, 2, 3. Blah. I still hate him. Back in the studio, Vince and Alfred are still reeling from the fish song. Reeling, get it? NEXT WEEK: Crusher Blackwell!! RE-EDIT: Unbelievable. There is a ANOTHER disc labelled 07/24/84 and ... yip, it's the same show. So I have three discs here with this same edition of TNT on it. The seller really messed up this run in July. Was he sleeping?

We haven't got there yet, but if 1979 is anything to go by, I'm expecting there to be some blow-away great stuff in WWF in 80 and 81. I don't know how thorough the process was for that first WWF DVDR set and if all of those matches were watched. Just from knowing the talent that moved through Mid Atlantic in 80 and 81, there pretty much has to be some amazing stuff in there too. I'd like to think that the actual answer to this thread is still a "watch this space".

Or it's a good indicator of what to expect. It's like a relationship. If trust is broken, it can be earned back. It's just not easy and takes time. I don't think so for those of us who just have no interest in current WWE. Wrestling now and the wrestling that brought me to the dance are completely different. I still have a deep interest in the the latter, I have virtually none in current WWE. Current WWE will never go back to being the wrestling I am interested in. And even if it did -- it actually looks like it's on the road to recovery right now -- the presentational elements like the nu-metal music, Michael Cole, The Miz's face, HASHTAG HASHTAG and so on are just too far removed from anything I care about to get invested again. I will never ever be into Current WWE beyond giving it a cursory glance, even if it's actually good. But how many times can I say that? That's why I think the less asshole-y position is to say "I'm out, the reasons are known" and that's it. There's no reason to keep on bashing the product after you've listed your reasons. I actually agree with Johnny about "negative nellyism".

On the one hand, we had years and years of people taking received opinions as gospel, of workers' reps riding on second-hand hearsay about matches literally a handful of people had actually seen. See Bruiser Brody thread for more. There is no substitute for actually watching stuff. On the other, it's usually possible to tell from a 30-second trailer if a film is any good or not. But then again most people will decide not to see the film and not to read more about the film and then write about why they think the film likely isn't very good on a message board. People are also generally not in the habit of moaning about TV shows they don't actually watch, what makes wrestling fans any different? I don't see it as a special case. My view is: if you're out, you're out. No reading recaps, commenting on stories, etc. If you're not watching, that's it: do something else.

I've seen a fair bit of this stuff. I keep catching bits of Raw and even I've found it quite compelling. I think with the two big storylines, WWE have come as close to restoring kayfabe as is possible in 2013. Got to applaud them really.

1975 part 1 and there's an interesting digression where Gary and Larry M start laying into Ric Flair and the way the title was booked during his era. It's a very interesting discussion and I will make a thread about it on a later date, but something I think IS worth thrashing out on the forum at some point. This post is a marker and self-reminder for that thread. Cubetta said "Ric Flair should have never been the world champion".

March - Week 3 Hammer and Sickle (w/ Gregori Wiskoski vs. Brian Blair and Johnny Rich Hammer and Sickle go over relatively clean but Wiskoski is sure to get some cheap shots in along the way. During the match, the commentators talk mainly about the heinous attack on Rich last week. They talk about how Markoff has been calling the big man they saw last week the TRUE "Russian Bear". We see a video package of Tommy Rich in hospital with a neck brace on. He is too injured to talk and so barely raises one hand to acknowledge the fans at home. Ole Anderson comes out and cuts a promo about American values and about how he is disgusted at what he saw last week. He talks about how he and Tommy Rich had problems in the past but this is just one step far from Markov and his "commie cronies". He also mentioned how for all their ideological differences, he misses his *friend* Ivan Koloff, that unlike these Soviet scumbags, he at least had some honour. Ole: "God Bless America! I'm proud of this country and I'm proud to live in this country. Do you know why? It's because we don't have to take crap from people like YOU. You're a pencil-pusher Markoff! You're a bureaucrat who hides behind rules and regulations and gets off on telling people what to do. And you know what, you just make me SICK! This is America, you don't tell us what to do here. We have something here called "freedom", you might want to look that up one day and take it back to Moscow. You don't get to come here and ambush our National Champion, you don't get to come here and abduct a man who has given his life to this great sport!" Ole is in a rage now. Ole: "They call it the Cold War. Well as far as I'm concerned, you've started the war right here in Georgia! Hell, even some of the boys in the back like Larry Zybysko or even Buzz Sawyer can't believe what you did last week. And we're not going to rest until we've achieved three aims. First, you're going to pay for what you did to Tommy Rich. Second, you're going to bring Ivan Koloff back here because what you've done is totally illegal. And third, by hell you're going to get gone from this country and I'll make sure of it if it's the last thing I'll ever do!" Crowd is stoked by this fired-up promo which signals a de facto face turn for Ole and most of the other established heels in the locker room. The Russian Bear (w/ Boris Malenko and Kolenko Markoff) vs. Tito Sanatana The Bear (Haystacks) simply mauls Santana who puts him over clean in 2 minutes. After the match Malenko and Markoff order The Russian Bear to splash Santana again. Ole Anderson has seen enough and runs out with Paul Orndorff, Larry Zybysko and Tony Atlas to put a stop to this. The Russians bail once again. Markoff finds the house mic and says: "Ole Anderson. If you want to take on the might of the Soviet Union, why not face us properly with a referee? Sneaking up behind us like the American cowards you are! And you, Paul Orndorff, who vanquished Citizen No. 3592560, known by fat the pigs of 'Uncle Sam' as 'Ivan Koloff', do you want to see how you far against his replacement? You are frightened Mr. Orndorff. Scared to take on the might of the REAL Russian Bear. Ole and Orndorff are fired up in the ring. Wiskoski, Hammer and Sickle have come back out to provide back up for their comrades, but despite a 6 on 4 advantage, the Russians do not get in the ring. March - Week 4 Gregori Wiskoski (w/ Boris Malenko and Kolenko Markoff) vs. Tony Atlas The commentators mention how they didn't think the members of the KGB would be wrestling. Solie mentions Wiskoski being an accomplished wrestler who will be known to fans in Oregon but laments the fact that he has now joined an organization as shady as the KGB. Despite showcasing the fact that he's no slouch in the ring, Atlas soon starts to dominate the match. Malenko and Markoff cheat incessantly, pulling the ropes, tripping Atlas, distracting the ref and other shenanigans of that kind. Wiskoski picks up and extremely cheap win with his feet on the ropes after Markoff distracts the ref long enough for Malenko to spray Atlas in the face with mace. Ole Anderson immediately storms out to remonstrate with the referee. Wiskowski tries to jump him but he no sells and the KGB immediately back off and bail. Ole gets on the mic again. Ole: "Enough is enough! Are we just going to let this happen? Dammit, this is our country. I want to see the NWA Board of Directors. Solie, tell whoever you need to, I am not leaving this ring until I see Bob Giegel, Jim Crockett Jr, Jim Barnett, and all those other guys. Get them out here!" Ole is extremely pissed off. Solie puts his headset down and stands up shaking his head. He's trying to tell Ole that most of those guys aren't here. Ole holds the ring hostage for another few minutes until eventually Jim Barnett comes out. Barnett: "Ole my boy, what do you want us to do?" Ole: "I tell you what I want. Those Russians have been causing havoc here for weeks now. Ivan has completely disappeared after they kidnapped him, they put Tommy Rich in hospital and they are making a mockery out of wrestling like in this match we've just seen. And you're asking me what I want you to do? What are the NWA Board of Directors for? Get these guys out of here!" Barnett: "The problem I've got is that all of their paperwork is sound. The three members of the KGB, the Russian Bear and Hammer and Sickle all have legitimate pro wrestlers licenses and managers licenses. I can't stop them having matches or being at rings side because they have as much right to be there as you or any other wrestler. Ivan Koloff's license -- in fact all his records -- have disappeared from the system. You'd never know he even set foot in the USA. My hands are tied." Ole: "What about fines and suspensions Jim? Or .... what about ... LOSER LEAVES TOWN matches? Hell I'll beat them all myself!" Barnett: "As per the terms of a pro wrestlers license, the NWA can sanction matches. So we can do that ..." Ole: "Then that's it. I want every single one of them ... them Russians in Loser Leaves Town matches." Barnett: "I need to discuss this with Bob Gi... Ole: "Where's your spine man! You are the promotor for Georgia Championship Wrestling, and you can make this happen NOW!" Barnett: "Well golly Ole, I mean .. ya bein' awful pushy ain't ya." Ole: "Make it happen." Ole leaves the ring and a shell-shocked Jim Barnett in disgust. Solie on commentary: "Well, er, Ole Anderson is understandably upset about how long it has taken the authorities to react to this terrible situation that has developed here on TBS"

74 Part 2 answers a lot of the questions I've had for a long time about the relationship between St. Louis and the Central States office. James, your boy Bob Brown is not coming off particularly well here. Matysik describes him as a "sad man".

Is there any mileage in my thought the "ideal" body type in WWE has shifted back to the Jack Brisco-style lean 235lber? It's very clear just by looking at the product that the guys who might not get jobs today aren't your Tullys and Arns, but your Ultimate Warriors or Big Poppa Pumps. The article is written as if everyone now is built like Ryback, but that's not the case. Ryback is one of the very few guys with that build and is booked as a monster. There seems like there's been a great trimming down over the past 10 years. You don't see guys really bulking up anymore like, say, Eddie in 2003-4 sort of time.

This is a very facile side note, but what surprises me most here is that Boswell is not only on Nintendologic's radar, but also in his lingo. Might mark the first time in history that Samuel Johnson has been indirectly referenced as part of a diss on a wrestling board. Is that phrase really in everyday parlance?

Excited to get there and talk to you about it Johnny.

The thing is well there's two things: 1. I don't know if there's such a huge gap between the physique of Daniel Bryan and some of these guys. Bryan: Tully: 2. Most of these guys got over during the roid-era muscle-head 80s despite not looking like Hulk Hogan.

I was thinking about this during Summerlsam, but it seems to me that this guy's assumptions are a little out of date now. Most people on the roster have a kind of skinny, toned build now, but I didn't see many six packs on display. The body type seems to have gone back to the Jack Brisco-type 230lber. Anyway, if the Wyatts can get on the roster, it seems to me that a lot of these guys could. And aside from that, is it the case that there are no "fat men" wrestlers anymore?

Just stumbled on this googling for something else: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1420801...cond-look-today My initial reaction was that this is one of the worst articles I've ever read, but then I remembered this thread and thought it could provide some talking points. The article lists 25 stars who just wouldn't have made it today. For those of you with an aversion to clicking 26 times, a summary: - Jake Roberts: didn't have a six pack - Junkyard Dog: "his overall look was kind of bland" - Larry Zybysko: " he would more likely be a "Living Jobber" than a "Living Legend," but most likely he'd be a "Living Garbageman" than a full-time wrestler" - Buddy Rose: "basically, the bigger he got, the bigger the joke he became" - Kevin Sullivan: "if anything, he'd be more likely cast in a Santino-type comedy act than a legitimate in-ring threat" - Earthquake and Typhoon: [no real reason] - Honkytonk Man: "The Honky Tonk Man does somewhat resemble Elvis. But not handsome, athletic '50s Elvis. More like early '70s, one too many cheeseburgers on a Friday night Elvis." - Jim Duggan: "Hacksaw Jim Duggan probably more closely resembles your drunk uncle, who at Thanksgiving strips down to his underwear and carries a 2x4 around the house while shouting "USA, USA" over and over again (there's one in every family), than he does a world-class fighter." - Greg Valentine: "When looking at Greg Hammer's body, the first word you think of probably isn't "hammer." It's more likely "ice cream sandwiches" or "extra-large pizza" instead." - Stan Stasiak: "Stan may have been the man back in his day, but these days he'd more likely be the man you buy concessions from at a wrestling show than competing in the main event." - Dusty Rhodes: "If he wanted to be employed now, he'd need to look more like his son Cody to even make it onto NXT." - Vader: "Without the mask, Vader looks kind of plain. Sure, he's big, but there's quite a few pounds on his frame that he could have done without. Maybe "Vader Time" was really code for "roast-beef sandwich time."" - Koko B. Ware: "At 5'8", Mr. B Ware wasn't tall enough to be a heavyweight, and yet his body type prevented him from being a high flyer." - Harley Race: "But at first glance, Race more closely resembles The Burger King than the king of wrestling." - Stan Hansen: "esides James Storm, cowboys aren't in high demand in professional wrestling these days. Maybe if he toned up a bit and shaved the mustache, he'd have a shot in this era." - Tommy Rich: "While never in great shape, he let himself go a bit as the decade wore on." - Arn and Ole Anderson: "Arn and Ole Anderson look more like they belong in a truck stop than a wrestling ring." - Tully Blanchard: "Tully Blanchard at 5'10" probably would have a chance as an enhancement talent today (provided he shaved his chest), but most likely wouldn't have received a big push." - The Fabulous Moolah: "She may have been fabulous, but without the looks of Kelly Kelly, AJ Lee or Layla, it's doubtful that Moolah would land a job in any national company these days." - Wahoo McDaniel: "Just compare the look of future Native American wrestler Tatanka to Wahoo to see what direction wrestling physiques were heading in from the '70s to the '90s." - The Rock n Roll Express: "If these guys don't scream "Rock n' Roll," then I don't know what does. However, these guys wouldn't scream "employed" in today's wrestling scene." - Dick Murdoch: "Dick Murdoch was a tough scrapper, and a former WWF Tag Team Champion. What he didn't have was an overly unique look, but that didn't stop him from becoming a star." - Adrian Adonis: "Adrian Adonis had one of the most bizarre looks ever seen in the WWF, but he started out relatively plain." - Mick Foley: "Even during his run in WCW in the early '90s, Foley looked out of place. These days, he'd be lucky to end up anywhere without losing a considerable amount of weight." - Gorilla Monsoon: "If Gorilla wanted to make it in today's WWE, he'd have to eat a few less bananas." - Yokozuna: "At one point, Yokozuna ballooned up to 650 lbs. No company would risk having him on their roster these days at that weight." Who is he right on and who is he wrong on?

I'm not going disagree Matt. But those *spit* on the Bret side of the argument brought it up. I think his offense is underrated if anything.

I see, sorry the idea that number of moves in the arsenal = good is so late 90s that it didn't register that it would even have to be a point that is made any more. I guess I was thinking of guys like Ricky Morton say or even Flair who don't have *amazing* offense. But it is not held against them. But my question is answered. Edge is a guy I associate with the 00s WWE main event style that I hate so much, so I guess it matters that his spear sucked. Or maybe it's the perfect finisher if you're going to work in 38 near falls and false finishes. I liked him during the period he was taking photos, he was funny.

Why is offense so important when it comes to Edge? I've frequently seen offense dismissed as being of limited importance on these boards. I ask this not because I care for Edge at all, but in the interests of rigour.

Random question, but does anyone know why the Road Warriors didn't go to the WWF sooner? Vince obviously wanted them and it's not like they were booked superbly in Crockett or WCW, so what took them so long to jump?

Chris, do you happen to know what portion of their $139.5M TV rights money comes from Sky here in the UK? I mean they've pretty much had a rolling contract since 1987 and I can't imagine that Sky have any real competition for that content (it's everything, Raw, Smackdown, the C-shows, Vintage, everything). Do Sky actually pay WWE for that content or just give them a split of advertising revenue? If they do pay a fee, I can't imagine it can be much. Sky spent £2.28 billion for rights to EPL coverage for the next three years, so how much more of their outlay can realistically be left over? I've always kinda been interested in the WWF/E's business model over here. For years they even showed the PPVs for free. But let's say Sky pulled out of showing WWE anymore, for some reason, I don't know who would come in and for how much. Probably BT Sports now, but beyond them there's no way BBC, ITV or Channel 4 go in for it, Channel 5 doesn't have that sort of money, and basically all other channels are piddly little digital ones with no budget. All of which suggests that the WWE's UK contract can't be very lucrative. Is there a breakdown of TV rights revenue anywhere? EDIT: Oh I see you mentioned this: I reckon if they show in 25 countries, they might get $2million from each one, or something like that.

Feel free to move this tech stuff guys. It's not interesting at all and the show deserves more discussion around the actual wrestling. The Soundcloud podcast application thing sucks, you don't get any email notification or anything, so I don't even know if it's going through or not. I really like the site but that has been the major drawback so far. I might just pull the plug on iTunes altogether soon because you do not want to see the .xml crap I have to fill out (and screw up) every single time, they don't exactly make it user friendly. Does pull in 100s of completely random listeners though. All this talk of "WWTP" and "WTBBP" is also making my head spin. I reckon I've got mild dyslexia cos my eyes can't seem to tell them apart without real concentration.

It will end up in the "Music" library, not the "Podcasts" one. There's a Soundcloud phone app you can get -- although once people start talking about "apps" I switch off. Also, iTunes via Soundcloud seems like a lost cause at this stage, they are not getting back to me on it.

That is so awesome. Also very funny to see him giving stick to "Rookie of the Year" Steve Travis there.

Are people really high on The Berzerker then?