-
Posts
11555 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Everything posted by JerryvonKramer
-
I have a feeling I'm the high vote on Bobby Eaton.
-
Yeah, now that you mention it, didn't you once get into it with jdw about Vince's expansion? What thread was that - bound to be something useful in there. Hey, there was a period I could have said the sky is blue and he'd have found reasons why it was in fact yellow. It could be ANY thread, lol.
-
One thing I have really soured on recently is late 80s / early 90s WWF house show or long TV match formula. I first noticed it watching Ted DiBiase matches, but once I'd spotted it, I couldn't unsee it. The same is true of Bret. The same is true of Savage. The same is true of Hennig. Rude. ANY guy who was calling the matches back then. What am I talking about? Not just formula, but the SAME MATCH. Whole entire sequences, transitions, reverals lifted wholesale from one match to the next. Now to pull a jdw: * Travel schedule * Different crowds on different nights * Nothing more was being asked of them But it's really killed some of my enthusiasm for the era and promotion I grew up on. There's working a formula and sticking in variations, and then there's just working the exact same match, same moves, same sequences. I've done this with countless guys. Period is roughly 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992. Around then. Pick a guy, watch 5 or 6 matches in a row. It's so often just the same match. Same structure. etc. Kills me. And this is not the case in other promotions, including WCW. It makes me wonder how tightly Vince was controlling work during that period. And if Pat Patterson only worked finishes on the PPVs and very very biggest house shows.
-
I only ask because if it is that big vast unexplored country, I can only be slightly envious, because I've found the sense of discovery with the territories more rewarding than practically anything else in my footage watching over the past 5 years. It's not so much the matches or the work even, it's just getting into the different vibes of every place, from Florida to Portland to Georgia to Crockett to Memphis to Mid-South / Houston to the old WWF and beyond, they all have that special unique vibe. And it's one of those things that sometimes I worry about younger fans never getting. I'm not like Pete or Johnny or Will either, I'm younger than them and grew up 1000s of miles away. ALL of my territory watching has been on disc, through comps and on youtube etc. It's not an "older days were best" thing, it's a "man these places were SPECIAL" thing. And outside of the confines of GWE, I do hope guys like you have the time and space to explore in your own time. It's less about workers than it is about settings, landscapes, members of the crowd. Unique atmospheres. World of Sport is also somewhere that has that. People can tell you about those things, but just exploring on your own and feeling like you are the only person in the world watching that stuff is where the deep love comes from I think. As much as anything else. It's something beyond star ratings or anything like that. I only say this to you GOTNW because you're one of a few fans who has the potential to go on that journey. In a way, the work is secondary.
-
[1979-07-06-Houston Wrestling] The Spoiler vs Tom Jones
JerryvonKramer replied to shoe's topic in July 1979
Tom Jones?! -
Listening to the various list shows, I think I am actually the high vote on Punk so far, which is just ridiculous. It's possible I just outrageously overrated him using the BIGLAV metrics. Just for refernece he was #44. I am so tempted to meddle ...
-
Dundee also has a lot of energy and motion in his work. Or in other words he has what you'd conventionally call "good workrate". I'm just curious GOTNW, you aren't into 80s US wrestling generally, but you are into Memphis?
-
Really enjoyed reading that post!
-
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
Ha! -
Didn't know where to put this, and didn't want to keep posting about it in the reaction thread for that show, but as two of the most important voices during this project and two of the characters that have made GWE so memorable, I absolutely want Jimmy and Matt D to somehow come together and make the ultimate odd-couple countdown show. We need to do what it takes to make that happen. We have more than enough people who can handle production. Sorry John Cena, you were the first thread I thought it might be fitting to post that in!
-
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
I make absolutely no bones about the fact that Dory got a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth chance from me because an entire generation of fans held him up as the best in the world. Larry Matysik ranked him very highly in his book. Dave Meltzer has always held him in very high esteem too. A lot of the time I want to come to an understanding of where they are coming from. And I think I did that. He ranked in the 50s, not top 10. Let's ask other people why they think Buddy Rose or 2 Cold Scorpio are people the "need to check out"? I've heard people say that. What's the difference? It's still the same deal. -
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
This articulates something I've thought about for years really well, and I'm so glad I've read these three sentences today. And it is true that with those people who have had that weight of praise placed on them, you give them second, third, fourth, fifth chances. Sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't. On my 30th attempt with lucha, I ended up just giving up. But the reason I kept trying over and over and over again was because people I like and respect speak so highly of it. But eventually you have to cut your losses and draw your conclusions. This is true of other forms too. It took me about 6 or 7 years to "click" with Tom Waits. But when I did, I never looked back. However, I would not have kept trying with Waits if critics and music friends of mine didn't speak in such exalted terms about him. The "pressure" is real and I'm glad to see people be honest about it. It's also not pretentious or kow-towing to try. The nature of the beast is in the trying. And in those times when I try and simply can't understand the thing -- most of the time, MOST of the time -- I see it as my personal failing, not the failing of the thing itself. I fully believe that Don't Look Now and Performance ARE the masterpieces they are made out to be, and it's on me that try as I might I can't get it. I feel much the same way about Blue Panther, or Dandy vs. Azteca. It's on me, and eventually I have to stand for "I don't get it" as my position. That's not pretentious, that's actually the OPPOSITE of pretention. But that's the thing we all have to navigate. -
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
Right, I totally get it. But for me I guess there's a heart vs. head thing that goes on. I can intellectually recognise the greatness of Jerry Lawler and admire what he does well, without LOVING him. It's kinda like saying "yeah, well, I'm not a huge fan of Elvis but can I really deny those first couple of albums their power?" Who am I to say really that Elvis doesn't have his place? I hope you like that I used Elvis as my analogy there! But it's the same as any list I'd think about. I'm a Dylan guy, I'm a Kinks guy, I'm a Beatles guy, I'm a Bowie guy. But I'd also want to find room for acts that I respect without loving. I don't love Leonard Cohen but I respect his work and get why he has such huge supporters. I don't know why I always find it easier to talk about this stuff with music than with wrestling, but I do. Lawler is like the Elvis or Leonard Cohen in my list. I don't have that personal connection like I do with some of the other artists, but I have to give him his due. My attitude will be similar in lots of cases. There ARE times when I completely disagree with whatever the canon is. I think The Who are ludicrously overrated. In the world of film, I really have come to hate the works of Nicholas Roeg. If I have strong views on something -- if I actively think the work is BAD -- that's when I'll register my taste. But if I can see where the supporters are coming from, I can admire the thing on an intellectual level with no pretence. What I love and what I have a personal connection to doesn't dictate greatness. In many ways GREATNESS comes from the fact that a guy who doesn't have that connection STILL has to give it to him. That's why Lawler is #11 on my list, and why Flair is #10 on Steven's. Greatness is something above the foibles of personal connection. -
I made a thread once just going through DiBiase's one week travel schedule, but cannot for the life of me find it. It was an interesting look at how much those guys criss-crossed the country.
-
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
Yeah as we've talked about before, I don't get the charge that trying -- even if we ultimately fail -- to minimise personal biases and so on to try to arrive at a list that is fair is perceived as arrogant or totalizing. To my point of view the oppoisite position of "I know what I like and what I like is great and that's the only criteria that matters!" seems in my view arrogant and almost Nietzschean. It actually reminds me of watching Jerry Springer or something, it's those levels of entitlement and those values I see at play. And the impulse is pretty alien to me. It's surprised me at times during this whole process. -
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
In so many ways my guiding mantra was "put your personal feelings aside, and give credit where it is due". This was actually a huge part of the Dory Funk Jr case I made. You'll notice he didn't make my personal list. I still think and will always think that my personal feelings don't in any way dictate "greatness". That's why I ranked modern guys, lucha guys, and people I don't really care much about. But if people genuinely prefer my personal list to my actual ballot, well, there is it. I also really don't think the only people on "this side" of the argument are Loss and me. I think there are more in that camp than have been vocal about it. -
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
I listened back over Chad and I's 100-41 earlier. I forgot to ask but what did you make of the bit where Chad was insistent that you were trolling the board with your Andre ranking? One of those little moments, made me laugh listening back. -
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
Well it's not just Shawn, it's a lot of guys. I think if you are high on someone (Larry Z), you are more willing to overlook flaws. Whereas if you are low on someone (whoever it is), you magnify them. Not having a go, we are all human. BIGLAV was about the rejection of humanity in many ways -
JvK's Six-Factor Model for GWE rankings [BIGLAV]
JerryvonKramer replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in 2016
He's got a lot of gaps and things in his career where he's not that exciting or isn't that good. And unlike other greatest hits guys like, say, Slaughter who is just great hanging out in a five minute nothing TV match just by virtue of his huge bumping or whatever, when Larry is off, he's really off. And if Larry came up on a random match listing, I wouldn't get excited because I know the match could turn out either way. He's a weird guy who has these pockets of greatness, and he made me actual ballot, but for my "feel-y" list, I'm holding that hit or miss ratio against him. It's actually a criticism I have of Steven's list that he's seemingly blind to the flaws of a guy like Larry Z who he rewards for the times he's on, but then totally harsh on a guy like Shawn for the times he's off. -
Ranking Every WrestleMania Match
JerryvonKramer replied to Bigelow34's topic in Publications and Podcasts
The narrative arch from Mania 3 to Mania 5 is so underrated. Just three perfectly told stories - Andre turns on Hogan - Ted tries to buy the belt / evil twin ref Shennigans - Savage is the net beneficiary of the tournament and the alliance with Hogan that follows explodes Just think that is three years of such tremendous storytelling. Vince and Pat were the Lennon and McCartney of booking when they were on their game.