Gregor

Landel had a WWF match as late as 1999, and, yeah, it was kind of weird to see. HHH beat him on Shotgun around February of that year.

So I dunno if you guys have already completed the sets and are just waiting to release them. If not, here's (non-blindingly obvious) stuff from 1999 I'd recommend, a lot of which you might have already included. (After doing this, I realized that it was a lot, so I divided the recommendations into three categories: "very good match or very good indicator of where company stood in 1999," "worth watching," and "I enjoyed it, and maybe other people would, too." Norman Smiley vs. Chavo Guerrero (Souled Out) Kind of an interesting match, as Smiley does matwork that wasn't ever common in the U.S. and seems really out of place in 1999. You also get to see how over Smiley's wiggling was. His being forced off TV because of it probably hurt WCW, although I have no idea if they'd have capitalized on it. Four-Way Cruiserweight Championship Match (Souled Out) I assume that the Psychosis title win is going to make the set. I prefer this match because of the fun dynamic between Guerrera and Psychosis. Chris Jericho vs. Booker T (Nitro 1/18) Heel Jericho had a definite formula in WCW, and this was one of the best executions of it. Scott Hall vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Nitro 1/25) Good ladder match in which Hall does a few of Shawn Michaels' ladder match spots. Scott Hall vs. Chris Benoit (Nitro 2/1) I don't remember much about this match, but this is the one in which, during the ring introductions, Michael Buffer makes reference to United States Title holder Bret "Hitman" Clarke. nWo Horsemen Parody (Nitro 2/22) Even more mean-spirited than the first one. Malenko and Benoit are presented as beneath even being mentioned by name. I imagine this was kind of a lock for the set anyway. Bret Hart vs. Booker T (Nitro 1/18, 2/22) The second match got four stars from Meltzer and is a really good match. It might be Hart's second-best in WCW and Booker's best ever. The first one I've never seen in full, but 1) I've heard good things about it, 2) it features Bret Hart re-using the ring bell spot from WM XIII with the U.S. Title belt, and 3) it's actually the match that Hart is talking about in the famous El Dandy promo. Bret Hart Calls Out Goldberg (Nitro 3/29/99) This is probably a lock already. Great segment that ended up meaning nothing. Owen Hart/Jeff Jarrett vs. New Age Outlaws (Backlash) Owen's last good match. Probably a contender for the Outlaws' best match ever. Kane/X-Pac vs. Mark Henry/D'Lo Brown (Over the Edge) Surprisingly good match, considering that it's from 1999 WWF. Very fun - Mark Henry and Kane trade power spots, Henry flings X-Pac around, and the crowd loves to tell D'Lo that he sucks. D'Lo is great fun. Nitro 6/7/99 Is the segment in which Eric Bischoff spoils the Greater Power angle something you'd put on a yearbook? Mexican Hardcore Match (Nitro 6/7) The famous match that the commentators shit all over while the guys in the ring are really trying. Billy Gunn vs. Bradshaw (RAW 6/28) Gunn's first match as King of the Ring. He loses to a tag team wrestler in three minutes. Edge vs. Jeff Jarrett (Fully Loaded and their house show match from the night before) The house show match is nothing special and really only a novelty. The Fully Loaded match is pretty good and gives a good look at Jarrett as a worker, carrying Edge through a ten-minute-ish match. Marty Jannetty vs. Ace Darling (ISPW 11/6) Jannetty looks about as good as usual. I thought it might be interesting to have something from him from this late in the game. Juventud Guerrera and Vince Russo (Nitro 11/29) The tequila bottle match is probably a lock, but there's a backstage segment in which Russo acts like he's being forced to have Liger on his show and it's a real pain in the ass for him. Lex Luger Segments (Nitro 11/29) These cracked me up, probably more than they should have. Luger is trying to get into Vince Russo's good graces by forcing Elizabeth into a mud match. Luger asks Liz if she's heard of the word "breach" and then spells it for her, forgetting the A. Then he asks, "Who do you think you're going?" Luger's evil acting is beyond description. Outsiders Throw Away the TV Title (Nitro 11/29) Scott Hall is upset that the TV Title has not led to his meeting Ted Turner or getting any free TV dinners, so Nash dunks it into a garbage can. Jushin Liger vs. Chris Benoit (Thunder 12/2) I imagine that a Liger vs. Benoit match would make it on anyway, but this is the historic debut of Juventud Guerrera, color commentator. He trashes Liger and blames him for his injury, and I don't know if it's a work or not. One Last Lex Luger Segment (Thunder 12/2) Luger is trying to escape the arena because he has a match with Sid. As his cab arrives to pick him up, he stops to talk to Big Vito and Johnny the Bull, and Silver King, in the background, jumps into the cab, which drives off without Luger. The visual made me laugh, as did Luger (clad in a FUBU jersey) correcting the guy who called him Lex - "It's 'Total Package.'" Juventud Guerrera on Commentary (Thunder 12/9, 12/16) Please include something from the greatest color commentator in the history of our sport. He confuses Madison with Milwaukee and Mobile with New Orleans. "The Juice is in the house, and the house is with the Juice, baybay."

Was Juventud a trainwreck waiting to happen before joining WCW?

Well, you did use the word "elevate" in your initial post, which was why I responded as I did. We might have different connotations of the word, so maybe that was my fault. I can see Yokozuna's win working like a MITB win. I don't agree with Bret's win working like that, though. Hart had been feuding with Lawler for much of the year, but he was still treated like a top guy and had a lot of World Title matches on house shows. Michaels was pretty much the top face when he won the Rumble in 1996. I kind of drifted away from watching wrestling around 2006, but from the list of MITB winners it doesn't look like there's anyone with a similar stature who won MITB (correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well may be). Austin in 1998 is kind of the same, except the WWF was WAY more about him in January 1998 than it was about Michaels in January 1996. Is there someone who won MITB under similar circumstances? Around here, the Rumble starts being a way of getting guys over, and it looks like a shift from what it had been from 1998 through 2003. I think that these three winners are all comparable to guys who have won MITB. I don't really see an MITB comparison for guys like Michaels in 1996, Austin in 1998, and HHH in 2002 - whose MITB win has been a definitive win/exclamation point on an obvious run to the title?

I dunno. Rumble winners traditionally have been main eventers already. It definitely elevated Shawn Michaels in 1995 and Batista in 2005. Yokozuna, Benoit, and Mysterio could be on that list, too. Most of the time, though, it's guys like Steve Austin or HHH who win.

Diesel hints at it in his post-Survivor Series '95 promo ("some corporate puppet that you decided to create, Vince"), but he doesn't outright say that McMahon is the owner like Ross did.

The title of the video I just watched is "Buff Bagwell in blackface 7/19/99," and there really isn't anything that I can add to that.

I wouldn't say that these are my favorite matches, but I was just looking for matches that I liked that I could fit into certain spots on a card. Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett (IYH 2, WWF IC Title) A lot about this match works as an opener – it’s fun, it gets the crowd involved, and it’s not super-serious. There’s no need for a video package because there wasn’t really a feud here. It might be the only great Shawn Michaels singles match that isn’t a show-stealer. Michaels would probably have balked at opening a PPV in 1995, but whatever. (Call it 25 mins. with entrances) Owen Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid (KOTR 1994) This wouldn’t really work as a PPV match unless it were unannounced or part of a tournament, so I’ll have it as an unannounced, fun little match that gets the crowd going but isn’t too emotionally investing. It’s a good match but kind of a cool-down and a shift in tone from the first match. (About 7 mins.) Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys (Great American Bash 1990, U.S. Tag Team Titles) It has pretty much everything that you could want in a tag match. I’m trying to place less intense matches lower on the card. (20 mins.) Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (KOTR 1993) Ugh, another tournament match. I don’t know how why these guys would be fighting, but I wanted to include Bret on the card. Since I’d already chosen the main event matches, it was tough to find something that worked for him because Hart’s matches were generally main events. (25 mins.) Los Brazos vs. Los Infernales (This one – I can’t tell you much about it) Not these guys’ best match together or anything, but that’s actually a good thing here because I need it to be a fun midcard match. Super Porky is one of my favorite characters ever. (15 minutes?) Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (SmackDown! 6/23/05) I didn’t have a grudge match on the card, and this was one of the best ones. I don’t have a great recollection of the PPV match in which Guerrero got DQ’d for using a chair; I might have gone with that one if I could remember it. (27 mins.) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton (Great American Bash 1986, NWA World Heavyweight Championship) Not really a grudge match because a title’s on the line. I usually don’t like when the title match isn’t last, but I feel like it works here with Morton as the challenger, and my main event wouldn’t work in any other slot. This would probably be held indoors, so Flair couldn’t enter via helicopter. (30 mins.) Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger/Barry Windham (Clash I, NWA World Tag Team Titles) I don’t like the idea of having piss break matches high on the card. This match is only ten minutes or so, so it’s a way to give the fans a break from half-hour matches. (13 mins.) El Dandy vs. Negro Casas (7/3/92, CMLL World Middleweight Championship) I have no idea if it makes sense to have a non-heavyweight championship match on last. This just strikes me as a great main event, though – 30+ minutes of maybe the two best wrestlers around at that point with the face getting a convincing win with his finishing move. (37 mins.) It adds up to 199 minutes, so this would have to be a 3.5-hour show. Do they do those? If I had to cut out one match, it would be the Midnight Express match, and then I’d be at just under three hours, which might not leave me enough time for random bullshit. I didn’t think enough about who was going over when choosing these, and the end result is that more faces go over than I’d like. Vince McMahon and Jim Ross is my favorite commentary team, so I'd use them to call this thing. No idea what I'd do for the lucha matches.

I've never seen it, but I think that it was a first blood match in which Flair bleeds and wins via pinfall.

His matches were heated. Even if the fans were supposed to cheer him and didn't, then they were loudly booing him instead of sitting in silence.

Dunno if this is the best place to ask, but - now that you've watched everything on the four yearbooks, are there any wrestlers whose stock has gone significantly up or down in your eyes?

I think that was D'Lo's story.

Gangrel maybe, although it didn't carry him any farther than a European Title shot. He had that awesome music, the entrance with flames, the blood-spitting, his own stable, and the bloodbath routine, and people seemed into it. I can't remember anything that he did, though. He had no memorable matches (maybe a product of the time), and I don't know if he ever got to cut a promo. Anyway, he wasn't carried very far by his gimmick, but he strikes me as a guy who was over solely because of the gimmick he was given rather than because of anything that he did.

The comment I made earlier wasn't really about Sid and Rob Bartlett. I meant it as a pretty non-controversial counter to what Meltzer wrote - a lot of times, people look back on stuff without really changing their opinion of it. It looks like I did a lousy job of choosing universally disliked stuff, though (and, no, I don't think anyone was trolling me). On Sid: I agree with this for the most part. It wasn't just the execution but also the choice of moves. He'd have matches that were all holds, and it wasn't really possible for him to look like a scary monster who was really going to hurt his opponent that way. I think Sid was generally more over as a face than as a heel, and I think it might have had a lot to do with his offense. As a face, it's not as important for him to actually hurt the heels as much as it is for him to beat them. His clotheslines in the International Incident six-man looked pretty weak, but it didn't matter because it was Sid coming in and cleaning house, so the fans went crazy. When he actually had to build heat on a face by making it look like he was killing the guy, he didn't do as well. I might be reading too much into it, and maybe it was just that Sid was a guy whom people wanted to cheer. Nash could have matches in which he looked like a killer. In the IYH match against Michaels, he seems dangerous, even when he does stuff that he could have done without the no-DQ stipulation. He does a huge side slam and then gets this big grin on his face afterwards, as if he's just tickled by the extent to which he's killing the guy. The last time I watched the Rumble match, Sid didn't seem scary at all. Most of it is Sid keeping Michaels in a camel clutch or a bearhug. Michaels doesn't seem like he was in danger of being destroyed; he just needs to finally get out of those holds. I actually like the Survivor Series match they had, and part of it is that they take a different approach to making Sid look unbeatable. It's not as much about Sid's offense as it is about what happens when Michaels tries his signature stuff. Sid catches all of it; it seems like Michaels can't even hurt him. I thought it was a lot more effective than the Rumble match. Then again, I'm talking about move selection here, and, for all I know, Michaels could have called both of those matches, which would place that criticism on him rather than on Sid.

Has there ever been a positive word said about the announcing of Duke Doherty? That of Superstar Billy Graham? That of Larry Zbyszko or Rob Bartlett? Are there people today who claim that Sid or Giant Gonzalez was really underrated? Looking back at stuff you first saw a while ago doesn't mean that you're flip-flopping your opinion on it. Plenty of times it results in saying, "Oh, yeah, now I remember why I hated that."

I get that, and I actually do see where you're coming from. "This isn't just a bunch of guys playing pretend - no, these guys are athletes, and this is serious business." It's just never sounded like that to me. When a baseball broadcaster notes that Dave Winfield was drafted by pro teams in both basketball and (American) football, it sounds like he's trying to say that Winfield was a super athlete. When Jim Ross notes that Brian Pillman played football, it sounds the same. I understand that the two announcers are starting from different places - the baseball player is already understood to be an athlete, whereas the wrestler might not be - but they don't sound very different to me. Ross loved to point out that D'Lo Brown was a Certified Public Accountant. He would point this out in half of Brown's matches and possibly even more than that. I never got the impression that he was trying to say something about how professional wrestlers are smarter than you might think; it just sounded like a way of getting Brown over. You feel what you feel, though, so if a whole bunch of people were bothered by Ross' talking about football careers, then it's possible that it hurt more than it helped.

It's not something that's ever bothered me. When I watch baseball or whatever, announcers will often mention that so-and-so was recruited to play, say, college football, and it doesn't sound like the commentators are trying to legitimize their sport.

I assume you're not talking about 1996 when you ask about old school wrestling, but at Beware of Dog they made a big deal out Clarence Mason's procuring a one-night manager's license for Owen Hart. But that's just one instance, so it's not really a useful answer. I can't remember hearing about manager's licenses any more than one or two other times.

Chris Masters used the full nelson as his finisher. It was pushed pretty heavily; once a week he'd offer someone the chance to try to break it.

... because wrestling is about more than just the match. I don't know how this proves that wrestling is about more than just the match. Richard Morton does what one would expect Richard Morton to do in that match. He is a member of the York Foundation, a stable that takes instruction from a computer. Robert Gibson is wearing a big knee brace and is not terribly far removed from major knee surgery. The computer would probably size up Gibson's strengths and weaknesses and determine that Morton can win if he attacks the knee. This plays out in a boring way, so the match is boring. Even though everything is logical, the crowd is pretty quiet throughout it.

Reading that, I remembered McMahon's reaction as a lot worse than it was. Sorry.

Lafitte is so much fun. He throws himself into every move that he takes, so all of his bumps, as mentioned, look really nasty.

Okay, they go into overtime because they need a challenger for the U.S. Title. If the board of directors (or whoever) knew that they needed a winner, then why would they give the match a time limit to begin with? Was this really a joke on Pillman? That just seems crazy considering how good this was.

Wow, they're a lot closer in age than I'd have imagined.

I remember the last time I watched one of these the one thing that stuck out to me was that he randomly switched between upper-case and lower-case letters. I just made a post entirely about Shane Douglas' writing habits.