NintendoLogic

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that the New Japan heavies were unfairly maligned, particularly in relation to the juniors. But I'm flabbergasted by the argument that they were on the same level as the All Japan heavies.

Owens has a pretty noticeable accent, at least to me. And weren't there USA chants during Cena/Owens?

I think it's pretty self-evident that great wrestlers have great matches. It's the wrestling equivalent of "you are what your record says you are."

To the Canadian fans, yeah. But do most Americans really know the difference between, say, Toronto and Quebec? I'm not talking necessarily about the educated people on this forum, but rather the general masses who watch Raw. Absolutely. Anglophone Canadians can easily pass for Americans (recall the hilarious "USA" chants during the Bret/Yoko match at WM9). Francophone Canadians are more clearly foreign. And cutting promos in a foreign language is always good for easy heat. Anyway, here's a question: would it have been better if Roman Reigns rather than Cena had been the one to beat Rusev? It's not like Cena gained anything from beating him, and having Reigns cut his teeth in the upper midcard seems preferable to fast-tracking him to a main event slot he clearly wasn't ready for.

Doing more with less is great. Doing much more with more is even better.

My understanding is that the Sharpshooter was basically forced on him. The way Bret tells it in his book, Pat Patterson came up to him one day and asked him if he knew how to do a scorpion deathlock. He didn't, so he had Konnan of all people teach it to him, and the rest is history. As for Cena's promo ability, I think he's outstanding when he cuts calm serious promos. The problem is that 99% of the time, he's either insufferably jokey or screaming at the top of his lungs to try to convey intensity.

Dory/Hoffman is on Ditch's site.

Because you insisted:

I'm nominating Fritz Von Erich now that he has a Microscope thread with match reviews. I'd been planning on making one for a while, but I got beaten to the punch. He who hesitates is lost.

Isn't this pretty much what actually happened? Except it was probably a Pedigree rather than a bionic elbow. Also, I was going to suggest an edit to the Zumhofe paragraph that greatly overstepped the bounds of good taste, but I thought better of it.

The issue isn't really with Cena himself. It with what he represents. Pretty much all the vocal Cena haters were fans during the Attitude Era, when wrestling was cool and mainstream and adult-oriented. These days, wrestling is decidedly uncool and much more kid-friendly. As the biggest star of the past decade, Cena is the living symbol of that shift. Those fans who hate what wrestling has become take it out on Cena. I don't see that changing regardless of how he's booked.

I think people overstate the extent to which fans who currently boo Cena would cheer him if he turned heel. A lot of them don't just dislike his booking or his character. They genuinely hate him.

I haven't watched Cena/Bryan in a while, but the main thing I remember about it is how much I hated the slapfight at the end. And yes, I saw the Raw promo. I still hated it.

I'm in the same boat as Jerry in that I thoroughly despise the modern WWE main event style. I just can't get over how blatantly choreographed it is. When I watch a typical Cena match, it's abundantly clear to me that I'm watching a performance where all the spots are laid out in advance, and it destroys my suspension of disbelief. It takes a truly special worker to be able to rise above the constraints of the style and make things seem organic, and beyond a handful of exceptions, Cena hasn't been been up to the task. There's also the question of how responsible Cena is for the content of his matches. He's a system quarterback whose only real responsibility is executing the spots that have been laid out for him beforehand.

If you're looking solely at their time in WCW, then Dustin wins. But things changed when they arrived in the WWF. Austin improved by leaps and bounds while Dustin stagnated and even regressed. Dustin's recent career resurgence isn't enough to overcome a decade-plus in the wilderness. He's also hurt by the fact that he has hardly any classic singles matches to his name (and none in the past two decades).

I would rank them Misawa-Kobashi-Kawada-Taue, with the first three being far closer to each other than to Taue. I'm no Taue hater by any stretch of the imagination, but come on. Also, the anti-Kobashi backlash has gone way too far. In his GWE thread, you've got people claiming that he was incapable of structuring matches on his own and was terrible at limb selling. They're making him out to be a proto-Davey Richards.

That's only if you think both guys have amazing peaks. In my book, peak Kawada absolutely demolishes peak Tenryu. Looking at it in terms of fundamentals, Kawada had better offense, better execution, better psychology, was better at selling, and was better on the mat. What was Tenryu better at?

These are more or less my thoughts exactly. This is a tough call for me, since I have these guys 1-2 on my all-time list. The way I see it, in-ring performance can be broken down into three categories: great matches, versatility, and longevity. I rate Jumbo the GOAT because he's the only wrestler who excels in all three categories. All of Misawa's success was in a single style, although in fairness, it was the most mentally and physically demanding style ever devised. That fact, along with the sheer volume of all-time classics, has Misawa securely in the #2 spot on my list. Also, I think Misawa was clearly Jumbo's #2 opponent, maybe even #1. 6/5/89 is probably better than any Jumbo/Misawa singles match, but all those classic six-mans can't be denied.

I don't see a GOAT contender when I look at Tenryu. To be sure, his sheer presence elevated just about everything he was involved in, and he almost always contributed at least one memorable moment to his matches. But he also had trouble keeping things consistently compelling, so his matches tended to have tons of dead time. For a guy who was supposedly all about kicking ass and taking names, he spent an awful lot of time lying on the mat doing nothing. For that reason, I find he was at his best in a tag setting or when reeled in by a superworker. Like Jumbo, for instance.

Dave has explicitly stated that "he was in the main event for X years" is not a valid reason to induct someone. The stated criteria: Working ability Quantifiable drawing power Positive influence Is Kane HOF-caliber in any of those areas?

Who cares how long he's been on top? It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Pushes.

I agree with this. Choshu's supposed off-the-charts charisma has always been lost on me, so I've always found him pretty dull.

I just heard Daivari's TNA theme for the first time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBluf_YzRg4 Holy shit.

I can definitely see Rocco as a workrate innovator, but I don't know about Jones. He's always struck me as a Regal-esque somewhat methodical worker.

Simultaneous hot tags in WWE tag matches. My least favorite thing in wrestling. Hell, my least favorite thing period.