NintendoLogic

Thanks a lot for having me on. Hopefully, I didn't sound like too much of a dumbass. It was a lot of fun, and it was a lot less contentious than I thought it was going to be. Fair warning: I say "like" and "you know" a lot. EDIT: Holy shit, I sounded nervous as fuck the whole time.

Kane and Sabu have to be up there as well.

Weren't Christian and Jericho pretty much in the same spot during that period?

I just skimmed through the match, and I don't think Jerry's description is accurate. For one thing, it isn't close to 30 minutes. Beyond that, there's plenty of slow spots in the form of working holds and lying around selling. Hell, Choshu spends the whole match selling his ribs. And I didn't see any massive bombs that weren't treated and sold like massive bombs.

From here on out, I'm going to forgo the play-by-play and just give my thoughts on the matches. Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama All Japan Pro Wrestling, May 26, 2000 One thing that stood out to me was the lack of head drops in this match. That's not to say they take it easy on each other, as the stiffness is off the charts. The problem is that Takayama isn't quite there yet, either as a worker or a serious threat to Kobashi. His arm work was good, but his offense wasn't all that compelling otherwise. And working on Kobashi's lariat arm didn't seem to bother him all that much, as he fended off Takayama with his left arm with little difficulty. Interesting as a precursor to their 2004 classic, but it'll probably finish in the middle of the pack. Koji Kanemoto & Minoru Tanaka vs. Shinjiro Ohtani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa New Japan Pro Wrestling, June 25, 2000 Straight up, I hated this match. The macho slugfest style of wrestling is pretty dumbed-down to begin with, and when you add spotty junior selling to the mix, you get two teams beating the hell out of each other for 20 minutes without any rhyme or reason that I was able to detect. There were a couple of nifty sequences where Kanemoto and Tanaka would counter Ohtani and Takaiwa's attempts at a powerbomb/missile dropkick combination, but that's about it. If you dig Kawada/Sasaki-style matches, this will be right up your alley. I don't, so this will finish low.

The key difference to me is that Choshu and Yatsu didn't blow off the damage they'd sustained so they could get their shit in. Anyway, no discussion of this style would be complete without mentioning Manami Toyota.

It's true. He was voted Athlete of the Year three years in a row by Bravo magazine (which, as far as I can tell, is the German equivalent of Tiger Beat).

Canada is a town? I didn't mean it literally. But you already knew that.

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

Oh, my.

I'd be down for that.

The Lawler/Funk no-DQ match would be my overall #1. The appeal of Hansen/Andre has always been lost on me.

There's also the fact that the company in question has a track record of delivering disappointing payoffs. It's perfectly reasonable for people to be apprehensive when they read something that sets off alarm bells.

But he isn't. That's the key point.

Thirty points to NintendoLogic for getting on the Arn Anderson, Super Agent bandwagon. How many points is being Dylan's Boswell worth? Because you maxed out a long time ago.

I don't know when people decided that leg selling requires you to spend the entire match lying on your back in agony, but that's pretty ridiculous. Things like hitting a tombstone and then selling the impact on your leg or temporarily blocking out the pain to hit a dropkick are perfectly acceptable.

I don't know why Jerry is still so bent out of shape about the Flair/Bret thread that he has to bring it up in threads that have nothing to do with either guy. If it bothers him that much, he should probably seek counseling. Anyway, can someone point me to specific Edge matches that showcase his lousy offense? I haven't watched any Edge matches in a while, and his offense never made an impression on me one way or another.

Sounds to me like the main difference between Cena and Tanahashi is that Tanahashi doesn't have Arn Anderson to put together matches for him. Also, I don't see where Okada is blowing off body part work to get his shit in. If anything, the opposite is true: he acts like he's crippled even when his opponent has hardly done anything to his leg.

We need a thread dedicated to alternate fanfiction storylines for famous All Japan matches.

What can I say? Tanahashi isn't someone like Vader where his strengths immediately jump out at me. I think he's someone for whom the whole is greater than the sum of individual parts. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a miracle worker. I thought the Ishii match was weak because it was built around offense and striking, which we've already established are not areas of strength for Tanahashi. I would also say that he benefits from working with guys like Okada who will go the extra mile to put over the limb work. With that said, I think he's very good at working his particular style of match. If I were to point to specific things I like, I guess it would be match structure and limb work. Tanahashi's matches generally have a clear narrative flow and logical progression from one segment to the next, which is a big deal to me. As for his limb work, you can criticize the mechanics all you want, but I'm much more concerned with the payoff. If Tanahashi works a limb, it'll usually factor into the finishing stretch in some way. I don't know how many guys are active today for whom that's consistently true.

I'd offer the same defense I would for Cena: he consistently has good matches. Like Loss, I'm much more concerned with a wrestler's output than a list of attributes. You could pick both guys apart on a micro level, but they manage to put it together on a macro level. I will defend Tanahashi's leg work. It's not filler, it's part of his strategy. His finisher is the High Fly Flow, and the most common counter is to put your knees up. If he damages his opponent's leg, he makes it so they can't capitalize even if they do block it.

I'd like to be pointed to some examples of Tanahashi fans giving Suzuki the bulk of the credit for their match. Because I've only heard it from people inclined to dislike Tanahashi.

If you expect a certain level of stiffness from Japanese wrestling, I can see how Tanahashi's offense would be an issue. Stiffness is something I neither expect nor particularly desire, so I have no issue with him working light. I wouldn't call him a strong offensive wrestler, but he's adequate.

Was Brody better than Sylvester Terkay?

For what it's worth, I can't stand Ishii either.