C.S.

No need to be so rude. Just because you don't like the comparison doesn't negate the fact that it's a perfectly valid one. Of course there are inherent differences between acting and wrestling, but Brando's name was brought up elsewhere in this thread and there are definitely similarities worth discussing. One of the major points of argument is whether Flair's later work should be held against him. Looking to a similar situation in another industry is perfectly reasonable. As for your argument that Flair has lots and lots of matches compared to the amount of movies Brando has made, well, so does Koko B. Ware. What's your point? I don't think this particular tangent is taking anything away from the great stuff Loss is posting. This isn't the "let's respond to Loss" thread - it's the Ric Flair thread, and that's going to encompass multiple discussions that don't include only you or Loss. I mean no disrespect whatsoever toward Loss, BTW...I'm just pointing out what should be obvious in any kind of message board setting. This thread is eight pages already. I think you can live with a very small handful of posts, JVK, that don't adhere to your exact wishes.

At the risk of "Ringwalding" this thread, I think Brando is an absolutely perfect example. Both Brando and Flair were placed on a pedestal as the "GOAT" throughout their careers. Even though Brando did a lot of bad movies and bad work, he's worshiped for his iconic performances in Godfather, etc. In Flair's case, the decline happened at the end instead of between good projects like it did for Brando, but the end result is the same: People talk about Brando with a reverence that most other actors don't receive, for whatever reason, and the same is true for Flair. What's wrong with The Score? It's not The Godfather, but it's fun movie with fine performances. Brando doesn't "wow" in it, but he doesn't embarass himself either - and it's really De Niro's (and Norton's) movie anyway. Speaking of which... Brando has a much smaller body of work than De Niro. The great Brando movies and performances are truly great, but the rest of the crap is scattered throughout his career and make up only a few movies/roles overall. De Niro has two long decades of red hot garbage under his belt, with very few classics (Silver Linings Playbook and Limitless were both very good though). Flair's decline, like Brando's bad movies, is but a mere blip compared to the rest of his career and all the classics he had throughout. Flair's downswing lasted a good few years, but that's still pretty short, relatively speaking. But Flair's best, like Brando's, is really incredible - on a level that most others can only dream of.

I don't watch enough of the B shows either to be able to make an informed assessment about Titus's ring skills, but one thing I do know is that he has star quality. They never should have broken up The Prime Time Players. I don't care how Titus and Darren Young were as "workers" - they had miles more charisma than any other tag team on the roster then or now. Unfortunately, they didn't have the push to go along with it. I think they would've done much better in the Attitude Era. Either way, I hope they get back together after Young returns. Their split was dumb and pointless anyway, and it went nowhere and did nothing for either of them.

I bet subscriptions dropped like a rock after the first six months were up. I let mine lapse. I'll be back for Rumble, but nothing about NOC made me want to fork over another $9.99* a month *with a six-month committment.

ECW One Night Stand was one of my first thoughts too. That show was an absolute blast. My pick has to be Royal Rumble '92. Still the greatest Rumble ever (IMO) and another very good undercard match between The New Foundation (shame they didn't last) and The Orient Express. I also really dug Survivor Series '92 - I don't remember it having one bad match - but I realize that may be (and probably is) childhood nostalgia talking. I admittedly haven't seen it since. I stand by RR '92 though.

Yeah, this was never going to happen. I don't know why people were so adamant that it would. I'd really love to be wrong, but I don't think I am. BTW, I don't think this counts as an official cash-in for Rollins. If it does and he wasted it, and that's the finish, holy shit. But I really don't think so.

Jericho's presence is no longer exciting, but that's the WWE's fault entirely. They've booked him to no longer matter. A boring, dead-end feud with Orton doesn't help. I hope Jericho wins, even though this is supposed to be his last night.

Jericho has been booked into oblivion, and Orton has been the stalest character in the company for years. Who in their right mind thought we wanted to see this match?! Jericho must've picked it himself - I bet he likes working with Orton - because no fan actually gives a flying frog's shit about it.

To add to what we've been saying about the video game, this month's Game Informer reveals that the MyCareer mode will take your wrestler through the Performance Center, NXT, and beyond, so I'm guessing that is what the "big surprise" is. Why Meltzer couldn't just come out and say that is beyond me. These two posters on Wrestling Inc. hit the nail on the head: I mean, really.

If he knows the surprise, why can't he just reveal it? I hate when he's vague or coy about something, and he does that all the time. My guess (probably wrong) is that it's something to do with the video game. Maybe a "Next Generation" mode? If that means the NXT arena and wrestlers, that would excite me.

Took me a minute to recognize the JTS acronym as "jump the shark," because - to be honest - I've never really looked at wrestling in those terms. Almost every episode of Raw in its long history has had one or more embarrassing moments. That's wrestling.

Yeah, total game changer. The first wrestler I've ever seen botch a pin. http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe-raw/2014/9/16/6183313/gif-cameron-pinfall-ref-wwe-raw

Pretty much my opinion as well. The piece feels very "cluttered."

I don't know if this is his greatest match, but it's certainly my favorite: The Enforcers (Arn Anderson and Larry Zbyszko) vs. Dustin Rhodes and the returning Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat at Clash of the Champions XVII on November 19, 1991.

I didn't know Clawmaster, but a death that young is always very sad. Greg Oliver wrote a great piece about him on Slam Wresting. http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/MatMatters/2014/09/15/21941926.html

I found this piece monotonous and poorly formatted...a slog to get through. Is it just me or my mood today? Edit: Maybe I'm being unfair and letting my distaste for TNA color my opinion. It's obviously well-researched, with firsthand quotes (a rarity for internet wrestling pieces), but I just want all of these people to go away!

If you mean the house show I attended, it was after Summer of Punk, so Cena and Miz weren't still feuding, per se. Was still cool in a way to see "the WrestleMania main event" though.

Certainly better than the one I went to a few years ago, which featured Cena vs. Miz in a street fight, Punk vs. Alberto, and a VERY disappointing match between Dolph Ziggler and Evan Bourne that seemed a half-step off (think this was when Bourne was between Wellness suspensions). I remember Drew McIntyre impressing me with his hard work and enthusiasm despite losing. The thing is, I was barely following wrestling at that point (the Summer of Punk got me back, and then lost me again with a series of increasingly insane booking moves), and yet I was still able to predict every single thing that happened. The show was a cool experience, but everything felt rote and stale - which should not ever be the case for a lapsed fan, as I was at the time. I can agree with this. Always fun to see the kids and families just having a good time. That was definitely the case at the show I went to.

Not sure why you're all begging for house shows. Longer matches, yes, but they're usually very paint-by-numbers. It's a fun enough experience, don't get me wrong, but the last thing you'll be is blown away.

I'm shocked that such a match even exists. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFCe5G361Qk

The Faces of Fear was a damn good, underrated tag team, so there's that.

Finally watched the show. It's on Hulu Plus now, so it turns out you do not need the Network to keep up with NXT. You just won't get the show live, that's all. Anyway, my thoughts: - I skipped or fast-forwarded through most of the undercard, so if there was anything great there, please let me know. - I don't exactly love The Ascension, but having them lose to Sin Cara and Kalisto seems like such a waste of time to me. The "Lucha Dragons" would be a jobber team in any other era, and they only serve as a reminder now of how much better the Lucha and Cruiserweight scene in America was only a decade ago. - I liked the debut of Kenta, and I even dig the new Hideo Itami moniker. It rolls off the tongue nicely IMO. - As great as NXT is, and as much deserved praise as it gets, the undercard wrestlers that I witnessed were all pretty goofy and lame. I really hope they mature and evolve into better wrestlers and characters, because if that's the future of the WWE, we're in trouble. Too harsh? - Charlotte vs. Bayley was fun, and I really dig Bayley's character. Charlotte is improving but hasn't quite put it all together yet. I noticed a few jarring rookie mistakes, with the major one being the moonsault. When she landed, there was so much air between her and Bayley that it didn't feel impactful at all. Still, even though Charlotte isn't quite there yet, her potential is obvious. Bayley's too. - The main event was fun, but not what I'd call great by any means. I hate the WWE's typical formula for three- and four-way matches, with 1-2 wrestlers always on the outside for whatever reason. There has to be a better way to format these matches. Adrian Neville, as usual, was bland and pedestrian until he flew through the air, but that seems to be the only thing he has going for him. Am I wrong? Tyler Breeze is pretty good too, but the whole gimmick smacks of midcard to me. I see a ceiling with it. It probably doesn't help that he can't plausibly turn face with a character like that. Then again, that didn't seem to hurt Rick Rude too much. Sami Zayn and Tyson Kidd were the best two wrestlers in the match, and I'm glad to see a Neville/Zayn issue develop from this match. That should be fun!

I agree, but is there the danger of voters being "butthurt" because Punk "walked out on the business," "abandoned the fans," and all of the other junk I see posted online? I am guessing the WON voting block is a cut above that sort of thing, intelligence-wise, but it's still something that could potentially trip Punk up. I hope not. Whether he actually is worthy of being a first ballot WON HOFer, I'm not so sure on. Then again, we use "the Koko B. Ware rule" to justify a lot of the WWE HOF choices, so who is the WON's "Koko"?

Was the greatness of Savage/Steamboat hyped after the fact? Everyone who saw it knew immediately that is was one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, in US history at that point. I knew it as I watched it live on Closed Circuit that I was seeing something I had never seen before in my life. Right, but I mean hyped by the WWF. Did they promote it as one of the greatest matches ever right after it happened or did that come later?

I have a feeling some clueless WWE employee gave out Chromecasts because that was the cheapest option, not realizing that it's not officially supported. WWE's handling of the Network has been pretty clueless all around - bad advertising/shilling ($9.99!!!), an inability to properly explain how it works (some people probably still have no clue that you can watch it on a TV), inconsistent content uploads, a live channel schedule that feels like it was programmed by monkeys (there's no rhyme or reason to any of it), a clunky product that still feels like it's in the beta testing stages, and I could go on and on.