C.S.

Would it have been though? He didn't exactly light the wrestling world on fire when he eventually did join the WWE in late 1990 as General Adnan. I can't imagine that the WWE's approach to his character would have been radically different only five years earlier.

No, but it might exemplify wider reasons for why Savage was so far ahead of Steamboat in terms of drawing power. While Steamer was possibly stuck in his own bubble (as evidenced by his distaste for the WM match), Savage may have been more open to different possibilities and ways of doing things. Also, Savage clearly put a lot more thought and care into his character and presentation, while Ricky was sort of all over the place with that (from a scientific, no-frills family man to a kung-fu warrior to The Dragon with the fire, etc.). Of course, part of that is probably because of the power each wrestler wielded - Savage clearly had more say-so over his character than Steamboat would have. I love Steamboat as much as anyone else here, but I think it's healthy to analyze the shortcomings of some of these "sacred cow" wrestlers instead of pretending everything they did was perfect and above reproach. If I saw those, I don't remember them. That's not to say they were bad - I'm sure they were great - but it just goes to show you how behind the curveball WCW was when it came to creating and accentuating those "big moments." The WWE has shown complete mastery in that area. They've turned it into an art form. No other fed has come close in that department, although I will give credit to ECW for at least attempting to do the same with their moments. WCW, TNA, etc. are clueless about such things, and that's why one is out of business and the other will possibly be soon. I kind of touched on the same thing above. WM3 was a "big moment" because the WWE Machine knows how to create those better than any other company in the world (wrestling or not). However, was the greatness of Savage/Steamboat hyped after the fact, or did that sort of build in reputation over the years? As for WCW never having a show as big as WM3, I argue that Starrcade '97 could have been that show for them, but WCW being WCW, of course it wasn't.

I adore Regal, but has he EVER had a match as good as Savage/Steamboat? Steamboat himself was down on the match for years because it was pre-planned, which really comes across as one of those dumb things wrestlers value that don't actually enhance the product in any way. Might explain why Savage drew a boatload of money and Steamer never really did.

This seems like a thread intended for Randy Orton. Bores the shit out of fans but workers trip over themselves praising this guy. I don't get it... Yes, he's good in the ring, but everyone is sick of him.

I hate the USB and plug setup, but that's a small price to pay for a cheaper product that works well. The Chromecast is a bust IMO because there's no remote at all (and a crappy phone app is NOT an adequate replacement in my book). The Roku stick at least seems to have a remote, which makes all the difference in the world.

I'm not saying the history of the NWA Title doesn't matter - of course it still does - but I don't think the current NWA matters a lick. The fact is, ROH and NJPW are both more well-known and relevant in this day and age than the current NWA. NJPW, to my knowledge, has always been a major league promotion - even if it's never had much (or any) U.S. presence. America is a very important market, of course, but it's not the only market. Japan is still a pretty big, significant country in its own right. But how highly regarded is the NWA there because of its association with NJPW? I don't know for sure, and I'll admit that, but I'm willing to bet not very. Anyway, I don't know if we should keep going 'round and 'round on this. You clearly have your own feelings about the NWA, which are more positive than mine, and that's cool. As much as I'd love for the NWA to mean something in 2014, it will never be what it once was. It can't be. The industry has changed too much.

NJPW, maybe. TNA, no way. I just can't buy TNA as credible. And how can you clearly trace the lineage of the NWA Title? WWE (the World Heavyweight Title before it was merged), TNA (the original NWA-TNA belt), and the current NWA have all claimed to have titles that can be traced back to the original. If the current NWA indy promotion (or whatever it is) has created a coherent timeline and title history, good for them, but I still don't buy that title as the same one held by Flair, Thesz, etc. Even if it is somehow technically the same lineage, that means very little to me. I can't rationally consider it a World Title in 2014 (there's more to being a "World" Championship than just being defended internationally, which is an old-fashioned, outdated, passe standard to apply to modern-day wrestling anyway). Sears was once a powerhouse in the retail world, but do we still hold it in the same esteem because of what it used to be, or do we face reality and acknowledge Sears for what it is today? That's kind of how I look at the current NWA. Honest question: Do you work for the NWA by any chance? I'm asking because you seem to be defending them rather passionately - far more than is warranted for such an irrelevant ghost of a group IMO. It may be fun to attend their shows - I'm sure they have great wrestlers, exciting matches, an interesting partnership with NJPW, etc. - but 99% of wrestling fans don't realize they exist anymore. The ship really has sailed on the NWA being anything meaningful and impactful in wrestling. At best, they're probably a very good U.S. indy promotion (or group of promotions, as the case may be) with slightly longer legs in Japan (if even that), but that's it.

IMO, Chromecast is a horrible, clunky, overrated piece of shit. The lack of a remote kills it dead (don't care that there's an app). With the Chromecast, it's so ridiculous because not only do I have to stick it into my TV's USB, I also have to plug it into my wall. Looks like absolute dogshit. (I realize this is partly because of my TV and not everyone will have to do that, but still.) How is the Roku Streaming Stick in comparison?

If you believe the carny rasslin' promoters that claim it's the same lineage, sure. In reality, the NWA has been dead for decades. Even if you think it's still alive and still the same, it's no longer a major league promotion and therefore no longer a World Title.

Roku 3 is what I use, and it's great. Anyone else thinking of not renewing the Network (Night of Champions sounds terrible to me), and waiting for an inevitable deal?

True, it wasn't very entertaining, but how much could the man realistically do as a babyface manager for jobbers? Bobby Heenan wouldn't have succeeded in that role either.

LOL. That was a waste of time for Teddy Long (and the fans), but I wouldn't necessarily say Teddy was a bad manager/personality because of it. He was just cast in a role that was literally a no-win situation.

Are we really calling the useless, pathetic "NWA" Title of that era a World Championship? Shane Douglas was right about one thing: The NWA died - R.I.P. - many years ago.

Strikes me as intellectually dishonest to compare Sapphire to, say, Bobby "The Brain" Heenan or any elite manager. Regardless of what she was called, she did not play the same role - nor was she expected to. For what she was, she did okay. I also didn't mind Harvey Wippleman. All time great? No, not even close, but I think he worked as a manager of lower midcard or comedy acts (Big Bully Busick, Well Dunn, Bertha Faye) but was out of his element when managing main eventers (Sid). The one exception to the latter is Giant Gonzales - maybe because Gonzales looked so god damn goofy. Yet, ironically, Gonzales was credible as a threat (briefly) by laying out The Undertaker the way he did at the '93 Royal Rumble. (Remember, no one had ever been made to look that dominant against The Undertaker up until that point.) Keeping this on-topic, I'll repeat what I said about Fuji in my Gorilla thread: I always thought Fuji was presented very effectively too. Obviously, he had significant drawbacks, but his character was believable and easy to dislike. Worst manager? Not even close.

I always thought Fuji was presented very effectively too. Obviously, he had significant drawbacks, but his character was believable and easy to dislike. Worst manager? Not even close.

WWE.com Poll: Which Superstar would you like to see in a WWE Studios movie next? Come on, people! Let's get those votes for Stardust going!!!

Yeah, but other Thursday night shows (Big Bang? Whatever's on that day) will continue to survive and thrive. Football may be a big deal, but there's still an audience outside of it or in addition to it. And not everyone watches football. It bores the shit out of me. But I get the point: a lot of people watch it. Fair enough. But the rest of the TV landscape manages somehow.

This football vs. wrestling talking point has always made me laugh. How much overlap is there really. Okay, some, but I don't think it's as significant as a few of you and Meltzer make it out to be. Plus, football doesn't run all year - and if I'm understanding correctly, NFL isn't airing the prestige games on Thursday (then again, WWE isn't airing its prestige program on Thursday either).

I had the same reaction. That schtick works the first time you see it, but it quickly wore thin as it kept repeating itself throughout the episode.

Really enjoying these. But just heads-up: there's some kind of formatting issue with the Boss Man/Akeem section of your talk show piece: As you can see, it cuts off mid-sentence and then turns into a giant link. Just letting you know. Really great stuff here. Edit: The Savage talk show bit on the next page has the same issue.

Matt posted what I was just about to. Agreed on all counts.

I watched the first Monday Night Wars episode. I'm not sure if this is the same thing was that was shown "live" on the Network a month or two back and then never archived. It was okay for what it is, but there was nothing new or special. They used a fake widescreen for the old footage, which drove me nuts, because text got cut off and the picture quality was unnecessarily bad. This did remind me of the impact Lex Luger had on the first Nitro and on the Monday Night Wars in general. Without him, people might not have been curious enough to tune in to the second episode of Nitro. It would have been another TNA, where people may have ordered the first PPV but didn't get the second one because there was no hook to keep them coming back for more. Edit: It wasn't mentioned on the show, but the promise of Hogan vs. Luger for the second episode was HUGE at the time. PPV main event caliber matches simply did not happen back then, and one show setting up the next was also rare if not nonexistent. Plus, there was the mystery of whether Luger was face or heel, whether he'd win the title or not, etc. I also watched the Shield/SummerSlam special. Fun stuff, especially about their time in ROH and developmental.

Great idea for a thread! Even though I don't feel any "guilt" about liking what I like and vice versa, here are my picks... Guilty Pleasures: The Miz Haku/Meng and Barbarian (especially their Faces of Fear run in WCW) Scotty Riggs (Anton) as an ECW heel Hardcore Holly Steve Blackman Headshrinkers Papa Shango Repo Man Tex Slazenger and Shanghai Pierce Maniac Mike Davis and the Moon Rock Match in the GWF Guilty Displeasures: Brock Lesnar (don't care what a "natural" he is - he bores the shit out of me in every possible aspect) Randy Orton (probably not an uncommon opinion here, but listen to any wrestler and they act like he's the best thing ever) Adrian Neville (does nothing for me) Steiner Brothers (overrated) Road Warriors/LOD (to be fair, I didn't get into wrestling until their first WWF run, and it might have been all downhill from there)

Did Meltzer hate it? If so, there's your answer. I thought it was a surprisingly fun match - one of the better matches on the card, truth be told.

Cuba Gooding Jr. is a tremendous actor. His career has gone down the tubes over the past decade, but even some of his straight-to-video movies are well worth seeking out. The man never lost his talent. As for WWE winning an Emmy, no chance in hell if we're talking Raw, Smackdown, etc. This is the only hope they have... ...and even that seems highly unlikely.