C.S.

Some random observations about out of the ring matters: - Putting aside the wrestling quality of the women's match, what really struck me was how fucking generic most of their costumes were. Practically interchangeable. The men would never be allowed to get away with that. Then again... - It struck me last night that Dean Ambrose's costume is just a cleaner version of Luke Harper's dirty swamp outfit - and both of them are only a couple of shades removed from the Brooklyn Brawler. Just terrible. Even in the mid-90s, everyone looked unique and memorable. Even the shittiest gimmicks - Mantaur, etc. - stood out costume-wise. Now? It's a race to see who can be the most generic.

Yeah, the Show turn wasn't planned ahead of time (storyline-wise). That was made obvious by Hunter's surprised, startled reaction to it. Who knows where they go with it from here, but at least it's something interesting for Show, which was more than we could say for his character only a few hours ago.

I'm not even a Sting fan, and I knew his return was coming, but I still got goosebumps. I can't believe anyone is actually bitching about that. It was an incredible moment! And the match itself was a clear MOTY contender IMO. Fun as hell, unpredictable all the way through, and an awesome star-making moment for Dolph Ziggler. The only thing missing was an "RKO outta nowhere" from Randy Orton. Really wish they had fit that in somehow. I was waiting for it all match. Bray Wyatt is probably the most overrated guy on the roster at this point. Either his style doesn't mesh well with anyone else's or no one has figured out how to carry him yet. Great character, but most of his big PPV matches have been disappointments (and I was the lone defender of a couple of his bizarre Cena matches). The post-match between Ambrose and Wyatt felt like such a fake corporate setup for TLC, which does the antihero Ambrose no favors IMO. To be fair, I was never a fan of their feud in the first place. I didn't like how it came about (at Hell in a Cell, at the expense of the Ambrose/Rollins feud) and I wasn't particularly excited to see them against each other tonight. Still, I do have high hopes for their TLC match. I was hoping Bunny would end up being Darren Young, hellbent on revenge against his stupid partner Titus for breaking up their promising team, but still no reveal...yawn. Just move this along already! I love the hell out of Mizdow's act, and I'm happy to see him and Miz (who I consider one of the fed's most underrated assets himself) with Tag Team gold. I didn't see the pre-show. For some reason, it took me to the Randy Savage DVD preview instead. Stupid WWE Network...

The WWE Network update with the Watchlist, etc. got added to Roku. You may need to force the update through the menu settings. It's a welcome feature, but the app is much slower as a result now. Every time you click on a show or add anything, it has to reload the options. Also, it wiped out my "resume" settings for the Foley episode of MNW. If that happens every time there's an update, that would be next to useless. WWE Network still feels like a clunky beta product, but at least features are finally being added that every other service in existence launched out of the gate with. Two steps forward, one step back...

Yep, even J.R. himself seems pretty clueless about this. He always talks about the "new and unique" experience of watching PPVs on his iPad.

As horrible and irresponsible as that sounds, and it is, weren't steroids legal back then and/or its effects not widely as known?

I'm not a fan of the guest host concept, or Larry the Cable Guy, but his presence at least makes sense because of the movie. The movie itself sounds like a baaaaaaaaaad idea, but it is what it is.

That's what I was wondering too. If it's just snippets from the DVD, I'd rather wait for the DVD and see the whole thing.

The airbrushed singlets, while mostly unmemorable (IMO), at least worked for RVD's character. They don't work for Ryback at all.

I watched the WWE Countdown episode about best ring attire. It was nothing substantial, of course, but it was good for what it was. Dusty Rhodes being on the list was a real head-scratcher. And while I don't entirely agree, I can understand why Undertaker made it. As a kid, I remember thinking that Razor Ramon's ring gear, while never fancy, always looked sharp and colorful (not to be confused with Scott Hall's nWo gear, which was cheap looking and horrendous). Alas, he didn't make the list. I'm a bit surprised RVD didn't make the list, but after thinking about it, I can't remember one thing he wore. Yeah, he had the cool "airbrushed" look, but he didn't make it memorable the way Rick Rude (who is on the list) did. No Sting either, but like Rude/RVD, that's understandable because Warrior did make the list. I would've put Great Muta in my top ten, but I can understand why that didn't happen on a show like this. On a side note, Adam Rose came across really well here as one of the "talking heads" - at least IMO. It makes me think that the WWE is missing whatever it needs to tap into to make that character work. Wouldn't be the first time! Weird seeing people like Naomi, Cameron, and Rosa Mendes commenting on '80s stars though. Brooklyn Brawler and Terry Taylor being asked to comment on this topic must've been a rib on both of them. Ditto for One Man Gang and Hillbilly Jim. WTF? Funny little segment with Michael Hayes trying to defend the fanny pack look. And to think, he was once the coolest of the cool. The former Shield also had talking head segments, and it made me realize how fucking bland all of their gear is. They don't necessarily need better gear to break out into the next level, but it sure as hell wouldn't hurt.

I noticed that some sort of theme music documentary was added to the Beyond the Ring section (I'm not sure when, but it must have been very recently). I don't recall anything like that ever being released on DVD/Blu-Ray. If so, it would be the first original content added to Beyond the Ring (everything else there is taken from old DVDs/Blus).

That is absolutely fucking insane. What the hell?

Wasn't that just because the blood and guts ECW crowd shit all over it? That's what I remember, but I haven't seen the match either, and it's been 20 years, so I could be wrong. Yeah, ECW fans eventually showed appreciation for stuff like Malenko/Guerrero, but I believe this match pre-dated that series. On that note, a couple of ROH fans I know were pretty adamant about how boring the Bryan Danielson 60-minute (or 90-minute or whatever it was) match was a colossal bore. I didn't see that match either.

Another one: The New Foundation. Remember that Owen/Anvil team? Okay, "New" anything generally doesn't work, but I thought they were AWESOME together. It didn't last though - I think because Anvil quit/got fired/whatever it was. Their replacement was the lesser High Energy team of Owen and Koko. That sucked. They had no chemistry, and I remember Owen saying they didn't even like each other behind the scenes. I also kinda dug The New Blackjacks (Windham and Bradshaw), but I never expected them to get a major push, so I wasn't necessarily disappointed when they didn't.

I don't know if I agree with Pillman. He did very well for himself in WCW and would've been a major player in the WWF if not for injury. Even if he had fully healed, he died before anything could really happen. Ditto for Owen. I hesitate to label them "disappointments" when death put a stop to their natural career trajectory. The only disappointment here is that they unfortunately died before their time.

Explains why Styles kept repeating "video on demand" like a mantra during the ECW Exposed special. In those bits, he appeared to be a huge Network shill - or at least a parody of one (which may have been the point). Speaking of which, was anyone else disappointed by Exposed? It had some fun banter between Heyman and Styles, but most of it seemed forced. It was also too much of a clip show for people who knew nothing about ECW. I'm not sure longtime fans would've learned anything new. I liked that they made fun of WWE in various "subtle" ways - particularly the "comedy." The thing is, ECW's comedy - when taken out of context and shown in clip form, as it was here - didn't come across as funny either. Some of the omissions were surprising too - no big segments dedicated to RVD, Raven, Dreamer, etc. Granted, they didn't have much time, but still. Also, did anyone else notice that the Dudley fact was shown twice, and was the only fact used? I was expecting Styles and Heyman to go off when it appeared the second time, but I am guessing they had no idea.

Whoever said Muhammad Hassan, good call. The WWE really botched that one - turning a potentially sophisticated storyline into yet another simple-minded foreign heel angle - but when the mindset is "it's just rasslin'," that's what happens. Another one: Matt Hardy. He was on fire with his "Matt Hardy: Version 1" character, his MFer (Mattitude Follower), Matt Facts, etc. For a time, he was a far more interesting character and wrestler than his brother Jeff ever was. Matt was one of the more creative wrestlers ever, really. Unfortunately, he was a political causality of the Edge/Lita bullshit. Edge's career soared, but Matt and Lita were never the same after that. I'll add Jeff Jarrett and Brian Christopher: Both of them were played up as big deals in PWI. They were the "indie darlings" of their day. Christopher was a fun tag wrestler in WWF, but never the major heel the mags led us to believe he could be. Most of Jarrett's time in both the WWF and WCW was a disappointment, but I personally thought he was really on fire during that short period where Debra managed him in the WWF, Owen was his tag team partner, and after that when he was playing a chauvinistic asshole in that feud against Chyna. (It was certainly Chyna's best feud!) His heel character was at its apex then, and he was one of the highlights of the show IMO. He flat out didn't work when he was pushed down everyone's throats as a WCW main eventer who had "stroke" with the "powers that be" and all of that other nonsense. But he didn't really come in with his chauvinistic WWF character either, which was a huge mistake. Instead, he morphed into something a lot blander while being pushed a lot harder. It was a recipe for disaster.

About time! Hope this is a universal upgrade across all apps and platforms.

Marty Jannetty and Bam Bam are the obvious answers, and they've been mentioned several times already. Yes, they're disappointing, because both of them had the talent to go much further than they did. I can understand the argument that Bam Bam doesn't belong here, but Jannetty definitely does. His singles career paled in comparison to Michaels', and Michaels wasn't that much better (if he was better at all). I also agree with Max Payne. WWF killed his career with that Man Mountain Rock crap. No way could something so stupid get over. In fairness, Max Payne was a dumb name too, but that character and gimmick somehow worked anyway. Some additions to the thread: Ludvig Borga: Beat Tatanka's undefeated streak, and didn't he leave the WWF with his own undefeated record still intact? Lasted less than a year, unfortunately. Nathan Jones: He was shit in the ring, but his vignettes were incredible - some of the best the WWE has ever produced. Sean O'Haire: But I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know! LOD and Steiner Bros. in the WWF: Afterthoughts and footnotes at best. Were they always overrated? DDP in the WWF: Just brutal. So much money thrown down the fucking drain during the botched "Invasion." Carlito: Seemed like he could be the next big thing, but that didn't last long. Lex Luger: Underrated in retrospect. Never quite got the run expected of him. Sting: Never recovered after Starrcade '97, and was always slightly disappointing before that. Never truly "the man." I could go on and on, but that's a good start.

Before this board, I thought I was the only one who liked Henry...

I had the opposite reaction. Thought it was slow, sluggish, and dull. The final few minutes were good though. Bad crowd didn't help. Regardless, all that matters is the finish - Rusev as U.S. Champ is a good thing. Can't wait to see where that goes. I hope Sheamus turns heel ASAP because he and Orton were in competition for stalest person on the roster. Cole's commentary at the end was surprisingly fantastic: (Paraphrased) "The U.S. Title was first held by Hall of Famer Harley Race and ten other WWE Hall of Famers. Now it's in the hands of Russia. In the hands of Rusev." Simple but effective!

THIS is a great idea, and something the Network should do A LOT more of. https://twitter.com/WWENetwork/status/529406014941323264 I hope Rusev wins!!! RUSEV CRUSH!

IMO, people like Sandman, Nailz, Valiant, etc. should be disqualified from this list because they had decent characters and/or charisma...they had something (and one could argue more than just one something for a few of these). Being a good all-around pro wrestler means more than just being good in the ring. I'd personally disqualify Steve McMichael too because I thought he played his character well, even if his ring work was shit. I'll zero in on Nailz because he's likely the most controversial of the names I listed. His character was intense...scary as hell. He played it well. Could one argue that he fell into a hot angle? Sure, but he delivered, at least in terms of mic work and presence. His attack on Boss Man was brutal as hell, and he looked like every bit the escaped convict badass he was supposed to portray. Look at how much less effective Crush was when cast in a similar role a few years later. (Obviously Crush was miles ahead of Nailz in every other way.)

It's free this month. There's literally no reason not to sign up again. You can always cancel before Dec. 1st.

Agreed. Even J.R. always talks about watching it on the iPad, and what a "unique" experience that is - as if he doesn't even realize there are ways to watch it on a TV! I mean, if even J.R. is in the dark, wow. Yeah, I get that he's old, but still. ___ BTW, did anyone else sign back up for the Network today? How did it go? Any issues? I did it in the early afternoon, and it was a breeze. No hiccups like the launch. And after I signed up, I was able to get right back into the Roku channel without doing anything special (no password, code, etc. needed - it gave me immediate access again). Haven't tried it on my phone yet, but I assume the same will be true there too. I see a pending charge for $9.99, but I remember that being the case last time around too, and I didn't get charged until I was supposed to. Hopefully that's the case this time as well. My account page on the WWE Network site says I won't be billed until December 1st.