C.S.

Eric Young lost the title to Lashley.

That makes it sound like he isn't coming back after the movie promotion, did he mention coming back at all? "I’m not leaving behind WWE, I’m not leaving behind wrestling. I love it. I always say, at the end of the day, I am a wrestler, I am a sports-entertainer. I’m not leaving it behind, but I fulfilled my obligations and now I need to fulfill other obligations and that’s why I left." http://www.wwe.com/inside/batista-exclusive-interview-26402579/

I can't stand it when Dave (or others) resort to such lazy commentary. It's obvious he didn't even see the fucking show he's mocking. If he had actually watched it (too much to ask for wrestling's foremost "journalist," I guess), he'd know that no one at that table was shocked, acted surprised, or any of that. They all knew and reacted with support that Patterson was finally lifting a heavy weight off his shoulders by coming out to essentially the world. Yeah, everyone here on this forum knew he was gay, and there was probably enough word of mouth that even some of the more casual fans knew too, but it was by no means common knowledge among every Joe Public wrestling fan.

Last night's Legends House had me in tears, and I'm not quite sure why. Overall, the show had more than its fair share of goofy and pointless moments, but it turned into something really special by the end.

Is that it, or is it just that Adrian Neville simply isn't that great. I'm genuinely asking and wondering. I don't claim to be an expert - I've only seen maybe 2-3 matches at most - but his match at NXT Arrival wasn't as hot as what proceeded it either. I don't think it's a valid excuse to blame the prior matches though - especially not when it's happened twice already. I'm personally much higher on Sami Zayn.

Was Slaughter actually released via WWE.com? Wow, I don't remember that. I hope we do get a sendoff for Teddy then.

From Curt Hawkins' Twitter: “@TheMarkHenry: Here we stand. Still here!!! pic.twitter.com/V20Wu0v0Tx” Your colleagues lose their jobs & you tweet that? You're an idiot Mark. https://twitter.com/TheCurtHawkins/status/477134520844824576 OUCH!

Wait, really ? The son of Meng got a Mexican gimmick named Camacho ? Holy shit. Hahaha, fair point, but the Asian Meng was a WCW gimmick. Haku at least got to keep his own roots/heritage in the WWF. Aren't mutual releases handled differently though? At the very least, they're usually not lumped in with several other names. Even if this was Teddy's choice, he still deserved a far better send-off.

JTG released.

I'm not holding a torch for Bourne. He's a complete idiot with two back-to-back Wellness Policy violations. Plus, for as long as he hasn't been used, I'm sure he still got paid all this time. Hard to feel sorry for him. Pretty classless, if so. The guy deserved a real retirement, not this "future endeavored" bullshit. But I guess they couldn't be bothered after they worked J.R.'s "retirement" and that bounced back in their faces. Otunga is as close to bulletproof as someone can be. Married to Jennifer Hudson AND an intelligent Harvard-educated lawyer. They'd be massive fools to fire him. Always something for a guy like that to do in a publicly traded company. Drew McIntyre is someone they really missed the boat on, and all over some stupid issue with his girlfriend/wife/whatever she was. You'd think the company would be more interested in, ya know, actually making money. Drew was a hardworking guy who got a raw deal. I think Camacho deserved at least one chance with a repackaged name/gimmick. Turning the son of Haku/Meng into some kind of half-baked Mexican character was beyond idiotic. At least Husky Harris and Michael McGillicutty got a chance to move up from those dead-end personas. Guess Camacho's dad doesn't have the same stature.

I like Slater too, but Drew had far more upside IMO and they canned him. What a waste either way.

Add referee Mark Harris (who?) to the list.

Where do you see this? It's not on WWE.com that I can see. Edit: Just did an F5 refresh and see them now. FUCK!

Totally disagree. She is about the only diva who looks like the type of girl who would follow wrestling, and looks like a hotter version of the pale outsider girl that the typical overweight, black t-shirt nerdy wrestling fan believes he can date (delusional or not). From the way she looks and carries herself, she is the perfect face, and the ideal antidote to the blond model types who the girls hate and the boys can't date. She is almost like a CM Punk in that respect, a 'cooler' version of the typical fan. She has the potential to all of that, I agree - sort of like the Lita of her generation - but that isn't how she should have been debuted IMO. She should have come in more like her NXT character - the bitchy anti-Barbie type - and then built up cheers and a face turn organically. Debuting that character cold - no backstory, people knowing nothing about her, etc. - and expecting her to get over as a face was a very misguided strategy. Even her pandering promo on the most recent NXT PPV shows just how miscast she is in that sweet, humble, nice girl, smiling all the time role. It was horrible. The results speak for themselves. No one gives a fuck about her right now. You can make the excuse that she hasn't had the opportunity to be in longer matches, but her character isn't over either.

Paige is miscast as a babyface, period. Right or wrong, when I was first exposed to her (vs. Emma on the first NXT Network "PPV"), I thought she was a heel.

My two favorite Larry matches (keeping in mind that I wasn't around for the Bruno or AWA stuff): - The Enforcers vs. Dustin Rhodes and mystery partner (a returning Ricky Steamboat, subbing for an injured Barry Windham) for the WCW World Tag Team Titles. Probably the first truly "great" match I ever saw. - Lord Steven Regal vs. Larry for the WCW World Television Title. Despite not being a natural babyface at all, Larry had me rooting for him to win the belt (which he did) - and I was a big Regal fan even at the time.

They were good wrestling matches, yes, but they completely infuriated most of the fanbase. Christian, a crowd favorite, FINALLY wins the World Title - only to lose it two days later to Super Orton. Then Christian gets turned into a chickenshit bitch heel, gets buried by his own "best friend" Edge, and loses to Orton in every rematch. When he eventually regained the title, it was by DQ or something equally as ridiculous, and even that lasted only a month or so before Super Orton "saved the day" again. Garbage booking like that is precisely why so many people resent and are sick of Orton today.

The Legends of Wrestling issue is FINALLY fixed on Roku. I caught the Heatseekers episode last night. Really fun show. Wish they had another hour to go into more detail and talk about more people. By the end, it was obvious they were running out of time and couldn't really get into Buff Bagwell, Missy Hyatt, etc. the way they wanted to. Eric Bischoff was surprisingly entertaining and candid about Lex Luger and Scott Hall - and when Foley mentioned the "Uncle Eric" angle in ECW with Tommy Dreamer, Bischoff called him out on it: "You got over at my expense" or words to that effect. There's a two-parter on Rivalries that should be interesting (not to be confused with the later show they also did on the same subject). I'm looking forward to watching that as well.

Wow at last night's Legends House... After so much stupid, silly shit, they finally "got real" with a very emotional and powerful episode. They never made it clear what Pat Patterson was getting so choked up about. Was he coming out of the closet to everyone? That's the only thing I can think of. But I'd hate to read into something that wasn't there. That moment with Jimmy Hart and Tony Atlas was also touching and beautiful. This episode was compelling, impactful television the likes of which is rarely (never?) seen on a WWE show of any kind.

Orton is a good wrestler, but he's bland on the mic, stale, and overexposed. Not his fault though. With the death of the territories, there's nowhere else for him to go. Back in the day, he would have been able to move from one place to another and remain fresh. No such option exists anymore. (Before someone says TNA, ROH, or Japan, come on...) Don't want to turn this into a political thread, especially since this point is entirely irrelevant to his work as a wrestler, so I'll just say this... I'm more forgiving. He was young, joined the Marine Corps impulsively, and handled the situation immaturely (a pattern he'd repeat for a long time thereafter). But were his actions really that bad? IMO, it's better that he "ran away" BEFORE being placed in a combat situation and potentially putting everyone else's lives in danger. I'm not sure, though, why he couldn't just leave the Marines through the proper, official channels...is there not a way to do that?

Putting him with Heyman was another mistake, I agree. After Ryback and Axel, being a "Paul Heyman Guy" is no longer a guarantee of anything. It will work out better for Cesaro in the long run than it did with Rybaxel, but it was still a stupid move. And the worst part is, Cesaro is constantly overshadowed by someone who's not even around. I'm referring, of course, to Brock Lesnar. I assume there's a long-term plan in place to turn Cesaro babyface after he finally gets sick of the whole Lesnar deal. Actually, why am I assuming that? This is WWE Creative we're talking about!

Call me crazy, but...Stevie Richards. He was a great comedy character, but he eventually got over as a serious main event level guy in ECW. He did variations of his comedy gimmick in both WCW and WWE, but he showed a completely different side of himself yet again with the RTC gimmick. Very versatile performer overall.

I've hardly changed my argument. Momentum entails moving upward. Sideways is not upward. I hated the finish (I don't mean who pinned who, though I hated that too). I found it illogical that Cesaro would hit one of his signature moves and then lose right after. It did the Cesaro Swing no favors. It also doesn't help that the commentators did a shitty job explaining/selling it (nothing new there, but still). It's a match that didn't need to happen and shouldn't have happened. Before Payback: Sheamus was on a roll, Cesaro was on a roll, so why not continue to let them both be on a roll? Of course, this is the same company that had Sheamus in the U.S. Title in a battle royal after making Dean Ambrose look like a goof who didn't defend his title for months. So, yes, I am overthinking all of this. In fact, I'd wager to say I've put far more thought into it than the WWE creative team has. In a month, Cesaro could very well win the vacant WWE World Heavyweight Title at Money in the Bank (I doubt it), and this entire debate will be moot. And that bugs me too. There's no logic or cohesion with anything. Another example I used before in this thread: Cena apologizing to his little kid fanbase for being slightly violent against Bray Wyatt only a few months ago, and then he has that crazy match at Payback (throwing steps, etc.), with no one bothering to explain his sudden change in philosophy. There are easy ways to connect the dots, but no one in the WWE can be bothered.

I was thinking last night that Dean Ambrose is a natural heel, Rollins is a natural face, and Reigns could probably pull off both roles equally well. I expected a Shield turn of some sort eventually, but Rollins being the one is definitely unexpected. I am curious to see how - or if - he fits in with Evolution. Seems like such a duck out of water pairing. Does he cut or dye his hair one color now? Not sure what the logic is. Being jealous of Reigns? Okay, but he's going to be even more overshadowed by H and Super Orton. As usual, WWE throws darts against a wall. Don't expect a satisfying explanation. You didn't get one for the Austin heel turn, and you won't get one here.

What I'm "on about" is this: How does the match or result help Cesaro? How does it further his momentum? Hell, how does it help Sheamus? The answer for all of the above is "it doesn't." May as well have been a no-sell. Cesaro hits one of his signature spots, only to lose right after. That's crap. Yes, the Cesaro Swing would logically take a lot out of him too, but as someone else pointed out, the commentators didn't get that over at all. Besides, I'm not sure I buy that argument anyway, because it has never worked that way in any of his other matches (but correct me if I'm wrong). THANK YOU! THIS is my point. They're moving sideways, particularly Cesaro. It's a problem with WWE booking in general, and it has irritated me about many matches/feuds - this just happens to be the one I'm arguing about right now.