Rah

Have you watched his bout against Lou Newman (15/04/1955)? I'm far from impressed with Newman in it, and felt him too caricatured, but Hans looked rather great in it. I thought the match suffered structurally, with too many simple resets and long-term selling being forgotten (even if Schmidt did a terrific job to begin with), BUT Hans brought enough spice to the dance to make it still a very worthwhile venture. His matwork and offence is neat, and all, but what I love most about his work is that he has the ability to work with/from any hold or move so seamlessly. The pin to headlock transition left me breathless. It's the little things, like that, that make me wonder how good he really was. If there was more footage, I wouldn't doubt he'd rank a lot higher on a list of older wrestlers because what I've seen of him, when he's on, he's really on.

I've got quite a bit of SKK's stuff saved. Sadly not from the last four or so months, and a lot of it is in kanji (?) so sorting would be a pain, but I'm willing to help if able.

Do the TNA One Night Only shows count as PPV? If so, pretty much any match from Knockouts Knockdown, then.

How much is also down to people becoming more apathetic to Solar as more matches of his made tape? I'm not making that argument for my own tastes, but it's a lot easier to infer a wrestler as world class when one or two elite matches (or performances) drop. Lest we also forget 2005/2006 Solar is not close to Solar of 2016. He's definitely slowed down quite a bit in the last couple years. Bias be what it be, and all.

If you're one for evaluating on a completist basis, there's still eight years before 2010 where Sombra isn't at that level to be voted for. I do agree that he would be on track for strong(er) consideration if he stuck in CMLL - as, like you say, WWE is a big if for him. Out of interest, did Hechicero rank for you?

There's a few IWRG guys I'm sure got a bit of an overlook (even if they aren't cold locks). Angel Mortal and Los Oficiales stand out from that pack.

If you want a look into specific wrestlers I'd recommend: Timothy Thatcher vs Zack Sabre Jr (Evolve 47) Sami Callihan vs Brodie Lee (Evolve 8) Drew Gulak vs Timothy Thatcher (WWN A Wrestling Odyssey) TJ Perkins vs Jeff Cobb ([unknown promotion], 12/11/2015) Mike Bailey vs Trevor Lee (PWG's Don't Sweat the Technique) I cannot comment on Bailey/Lee, as I've never seen it, but it got swell reviews over on WKO. Gulak and Thatcher are matwork guys, so I apologise for giving too many similar styles as showcases (I've tried to think of the best of each man's recent matches). Callihan/Lee is a bomb-throwing spectacle that's just pure bananas to watch.

Please get on to Regal vs Evan Bourne from Romania. It's one of the best house show matches that I've seen.

From Cubsfan: "Canek rates slamming Andre el Gigante as one his biggest career highlights, but blames his knee injuries on the tremendous strain from performing the move. He says he tore tendons and did not completely heal for twenty years. Canek says he’s never consumed drugs that weren’t prescribed by a doctor. Canek says he’ll continue to wrestle as long as his body holds up." Masterful way to explain away his career.

It's available via RealHero's account

The Regal/Singh match is from Westridge Tennis Stadium, Durban.

That's pretty much the booking pattern for Cena since Punk came along. He goes a bit more to bat on the heel side when he's opposite a universally cherished babyface like Bryan, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they go with the same formula for Reigns. The casuals love him, while his programmed opponent gets a bit of an easier ride to getting over if there's some hope he can dethrone the "chosen one".

Kimbo/Shamrock is a surefire way to get him up your ranking, if so.

Mid 2000s JBL is quite enjoyable when he's stuck against cruiserweights. His case might be made on a greatest matches list, rather than a laundry list of random TV matches, but he's intimidating and snug enough that you're more than likely not to waste your time with a random Smackdown match of his during that period. That said, Rey's clearly his career opponent and their series produced some gems that are rather well known. If I'd give a triple-shot primer of lesser-known stuff, I'd probably point someone to these: Rey Mysterio vs JBL (13/05/2004) JBL vs Chris Benoit (Cage Match) William Regal vs JBL (28/04/2006) The Mysterio/JBL match is one I've not ever seen talked up, and it's easily as good as any Mysterio TV match I've seen.

When did Flair and Morton go an hour? I've not seen the match in question (though I believe it's this one) but this is from Flair's book

Brock Lesnar's "peak" score seems rather spurious, considering there's at least a five year gap in which he didn't wrestle (disregarding a contentious BitW claim while working Japan). I don't wish that sentence to sound dismissive, and I realise it comes across as antagonistic due to its poor wording on my part, but I'm genuinely intrigued at how the rating came to be. Does your definition of "might realistically be considered" take into account the possibility of "what if"?

Fuckin' A! In a realm of crazy lucha, Konan Big stands out as one of Monterrey's finest entertainers, rappers and wrestlers. It's kind of the in thing to poke fun at the guy, and Superluchas did a massive interview series doing exactly that, but Big K is all shtick and it's funny how far some guys get offended by it. My personal highlight is either his feud with Neurosis a couple years back (that ended with one of the wackiest apuestas I've ever seen) and a $2 tribute to Lawler/Kaufman. While he's obviously nowhere close to being a good luchadore, there are very few I'm more happy seeing pop-up in Cubsfans's weekly uploads.

I don't want to sound hyperbolic, and I've only followed Matthews for the last three years or so, but has he had a bad performance in that timeframe? I've not seen it.

When did Cesaro start getting noticed? He didn't seem to quite have the following other Indy "stars" like Rollins or Owens had coming into WWE and I hazard his peak is a lot longer than what he's getting credit for. Comparatively, he only ever had a few fans talking him up as must-see before he blew up in 2013. That said, and as much as I view Cesaro as my favourite contemporary wrestler, he's the best case study for longevity vs peak arguments. Watching mid 2000s RoH, in hindsight, was rather frustrating whenever Claudio got involved. You could see he had good ideas, but he felt too clunky and unpolished. There's better flashes of brilliance in 2007 but I only think he put things together, properly, as late as 2009 (even then he's a weak link in Team Uppercut) and transitioned into the world beater he is now in late 2011. That's a near decade of his career that I wouldn't think makes any case in this poll. But, ever since he signed with WWE, he's been one of if not the best wrestlers on the planet. In 2013, when Bryan got touted as having a career year, I'd argue Cesaro was easily better - and that was working week after week with less talented, boring opponents. Watching Cesaro literally drag Kofi from place-to-place and have a TV MotYC out of it is a huge feather in his cap - most especially because it was given over 20 minutes. Perhaps he was never given the opportunities he should have, and he'd be a great candidate to bring up in the next iteration, but Cesaro delivers. Whether in tags or singles, throwaway C-show matches or main event Raw matches, PPVs or house shows. I just don't think it's fair to limit a guy's placement for "what ifs", if he's given indication he'd most likely excel at that arena, too. His only knock to me is, as I say, him putting the pieces together as late as he did. It's what would give someone like Sami Callihan (a wrestler I thought who knew his place/audience from the get-go) a higher ranking even if I don't think their peaks are in any way comparable.

Ziggler's an annoying case. He's a guy that can be a terrific bumper, if an ineffective long-term seller, but he doesn't layer his style to emphasise the spots he's bumping for. It's fun seeing him ragdoll for a monster powerhouse, but moments like that lose their specialty when he corkscrews his body into odd arrangements off a simple punch from a nobody like R-Truth. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say he hasn't had a great match in the last decade, but he's never been an integral cog in that machine. I thought he was fine enough in the Payback 2013 match against ADR, but Delberto clearly smoked him in terms of what each member brought to that double turn.

I mentioned in the Bryan Danielson thread that binge watching can (and does) hurt great talents. It happened with Finlay in Si Oem's stream channel, and it was starting to happen with Flair and Bryan. However, it didn't with Barry. I managed to get my hands on a 42 match collection of his a couple years back, after lurking through his thread in the PWO Microscope and wanting to see why he gets the praise he does. I was completely new to Barry, but I was hooked. I pretty much binged that entire pack in one sitting without once getting bored. He went from a literal nobody to placing 11th in my list. I love me some Windham. This is what I wrote up about him after watching the pack:

One and the same.

Just to add a bit onto Dylan's last criticism, Danielson is very formula heavy. While his 2013 work was aces, there's few matches that are necessarily "different". They're all exciting, and he can fire you up so nothing feels bland or a rehash, but he fits his opponent into his formula rather than working around his opponent's style (akin what his peer, Cesaro, does). Honestly, I can see people burning on him like Flair in a few years, going back over his work in too quick a time. Maybe some see him as the better wrestler, and all that for now, but that formula is there and it's been like that since at least 2008. I sat through quite a few of his RoH matches in the PWO-GWE stream when we focused on him, back-to-back, and they definitely felt within a copyable formula and less organic. I'm not sitting down and watching 30 matches of his in a row, that would hurt almost anyone (and it did for Finlay), but his formula works when it should, and it allows bad wrestlers to look good which is a bonus and shows some mind for the business. I just wonder about his "longevity" as that top-spot placement he gets talked up as. That said, he placed high in a mock list I made, and he'll place high here, too, if I do hand in a ballot.

Couple more that should probably be on that list: vs Tajiri (09/05/2002) vs Daniel Bryan (29/11/2011) The first is obviously more a showcase for Tajiri, but the narrative that Henry wasn't good (or, at the least, showed flashes of being great) early on is kind of dismissed in that match.

Any particular matches that stand out as a primer? I've seen a good bit of Rogers, and Rogers/O'Connor is a very rare blend of an iconic moment meshed together with a classic match, but 12 is very high. He's a fantastic performer, and certainly deserving of praise, but I'd love to know what matches that is based on so I can watch them and love him more, too. Out of curiosity, have you given Hans Schmidt the same time of day? With the Florida footage that made its way onto Youtube, he feels like a true forgotten about elite worker.