Ship Canal

I imagine a large chunk of those that hang out here at PWO have seen Kim Longinotto and Jano Williams 2000 documentary film Gaea Girls. For those that haven't, its a feature length documentary on the trainees under Chigusa Nagayo and a set of more senior trainees, some of whom have already made their debut. Most memorably these seniors include Meiko Satomura, who in one particularly notorious scene shoot dropkicks a young wrestler in the face, splitting her lip open and leaving her a bloody mess, for the crime of not having managed to perfect the requisite emotional fire/physical believability. Its an early example of the recurring themes in Longinotto's films which have always had a theme running through them of women in particularly trying and gruelling situations and are often very powerful indictments of misogyny/gender based oppression - the film concludes with Nagayo's testimony that her rigidly patriarchal upbringing contributed to her sometimes brutal (certainly to 2016 eyes) physical and emotional treatment of her charges. My question for those who have seen the film and might have a better knowledge of Japanese society and pro wrestlings place within it though is this: Throughout the film both Nagayo and Satomura, when training the young wrestlers, repeatedly discuss methods and techniques as if the work is real and taking place within the confines of a non predetermined competition: "she just hit you, you need to fight back, you can't do that in a real fight", "You are lucky that was me and not another wrestler, they would have killed you", "you can't flail around on the bottom, they'll know you are up to something" etc etc. Is this just a difficulty in Japanese to English translation, with the Japanese speakers talking in metaphors and not really making out the "fight" is real per se, more just talking in terms of "fight back" = fire/fighting spirit, "no flailing around"=no over the top selling and so on? Or was there an element (a la some old school US territories) of only smartening workers up to the true nature of the business in a piecemeal, sort of need to know basis? Or are the trainers and wrestlers simply maintaining kayfabe due to the presence of the film crew? I've always been fascinated by how that dynamic worked ever since I first saw the film when the BBC showed it one late night not long after it was made and I stumbled across it channel hopping. Here is a link to the film for anyone who hasn't seen it

Take a shot every time Pete says "NWA Classics" and you'll be dead before the hour mark. Great show guys, love the contrasts in your lists.

HBK, Murdoch, Takada, Perro Aguayo, Colon, Fuerza,Tommy Rich,Tracey Smothers, CM Punk, Harley, MS1 none made my ballot. Colon, Takada and MS1 were 101, 102, 103 respectively. HBK and Punk I just don't rate as top 100 workers. The rest I just haven't seen enough footage of or am only getting round to now and could well make my ballot in a decades time. The only real oversight was Smothers, who I love, but for some reason which I put down to lack of sleep and putting together my ballot in the midst of illness, was neglected. Plus I'm still working through Smoky Mountain.

Considering I nominated Tobita and caped for him a little, prepare to be astonished. He was on my ballot and I know that at least one other poster slotted him in at 100. Tobita will have at least three votes, which is sort of hysterical. Wow, that delights me no end. I knew you had nominated him but I remember thinking that perhaps you had nominated him to make the point about the wild diversity of wrestling as a medium but weren't necessarily going to actually vote for him. That's great. I have a feeling some people will accuse those of us who have voted for him as being somehow ironic but that couldn't be further from the truth. If anything its a somewhat ideological pick for me, ensuring that even the most off piste, D.I.Y, oddball extremes of the medium are acknowledged as just as valid as any other kind of style. Pushing that kind of criteria wont appeal to everyone, and I understand that, but that's fine.

Posted! Be ASTONISHED if I'm not the only person to include Survival Tobita, at the expense of literally hundreds of people who are far more talented in the conventional sense. Because pro wrestling is a performing art and Tobita is the equivalent of underground outsider D.I.Y music. Pro wrestling gives me so much pleasure precisely because of its diversity and I honestly find his shtick so much more inspiring, cathartic and fun than, say, HBK's. If anything I feel like my inclusion of someone like that is representative of the fact that the one takeaway I have from this process is that, just like when ranking music, films or any other form of art, trying to reach for anything approaching objectivity is largely futile and, I think, somewhat undesirable. I didn't have time/energy to go into any further reasoning on the voting form, sadly. Just seemed like an even more gargantuan task after finally having managed to list everyone. This whole process has been a pleasure to be part of and I'd like to thank everyone who has facilitated it. Awesome job.

Was that Uprising 2013 maybe?

Bang on. What I'd also add is that he was a magnificent really hateable heel in Project Ego with Martin Kirby and an excellent tag worker too. I remember an ICW show at the Garage I attended a few years ago where he took part in a four way tag and he managed to epitomize everything that the ICW crowd hates the most - preening, cocksure, pretty boy, hipster arrogance of the highest degree and it drew some insane heat. I'll post some of his best matches available on youtube as soon as I've figured out how to embed video... EDIT: If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong with those embed links do let me know, I've never figured this out, apologies.

This is absolutely crushing news and I've been in tears since I heard. There should be ten bell salutes before every show in the country this coming week. R.I.P Trav, so happy I was lucky enough to see you work while you were still with us. Devastated doesn't even cover it.

So this match up has just been announced for the British Empire Wrestling show in May. Any UK based PWO folks going? Should be a fun showcase of what Stardom has to offer as well as a chance to check out some other cool stuff.

ButchReedMark: Ted Hankey's incredible entrance tops all darts things. https://youtu.be/hbDTqCOVA1I Also, nowhere near the glorious OTT vulgarity of a Billy Mitchell in terms of character or motivation, and more likely just a dunderheaded, overly passionate hatchet man who has managed to craft a unique gimmick in a sport sadly bereft of them. Seems to me this guy knows how to generate some good heel heat, if only from opposition supporters: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/24/gerardo-bedoya-worlds-dirtiest-football-sent-off-21-minutes-coaching-debut?CMP=fb_a-football_b-gdnfootball "Gerardo Bedoya, widely regarded as the world’s dirtiest footballer, needed just 21 minutes of his senior coaching debut to continue his remarkable run of red cards in his native Colombia. Appearing in the dugout for the first time for Independiente Santa Fe as part of the new manager Alexis García’s coaching staff, Bedoya, who received a record 46 red cards during his playing career, was sent to the stands during his side’s fixture with Junior FC. After Santa Fe had taken an early lead it was Vladimir Hernández’s equaliser that sent Bedoya over the edge. The 40-year-old, who won 49 caps for Colombia as a defensive midfielder, proceeded to berate the referee and his assistant for a full 10 minutes before he was sent to the stands." EDIT: I have no idea how to make youtube videos show up as embedded in posts yet, sorry.

If anything, the ongoing Lovejoy/Charlie Gimbert feud kept Sunday night BBC in business for years NotJayTabb, I think I love you.

NXT - everything Progress - Try and watch every "Chapter" Rev Pro - Their big York Hall shows, often live if I can afford the travel down to London at the time New Japan - Less interested in their product than I have been in some time but catch all the PPVs WWE - All PPV's and RAW but not every week... often have it on in the background while I'm doing housework or something, the shows are so fucking long ROH - Weekly TV and PPV's Watch now and again: ICW - Their bigger shows Evolve - Attempting to fit in more but stalled just before Thatcher's run as champ begun. Need to get back on it. PWG - Struggle to get through entire shows... not really my kind of style and I find the Reseda venue quite difficult to concentrate on aesthetically... its just so... BRIGHT. Chikara - Not everyones cup of tea but I really enjoy dipping in now and again, it doesn't take precedence though, too much other stuff to watch Just watch pimped matches/would love to watch more if I had more time: CMLL, Stardom/Modern joshi I'd love to add CMLL to my list of regularly watched shows but its just finding the time, and I'm still acclimatizing myself to lucha, even though I've seen a lot of what you might call the classics in terms of canon... I've tried to get into Lucha Underground but there's something about the way its filmed and especially the sound - specifically the way the crowd is mic'd - that I struggle with. I still check out matches that get hype on the show, but I think perhaps all the elements that people laud as creative and a welcome departure from a traditional pro wrestling show have made me realize that.... maybe I just like traditional pro wrestling shows.

Yeah, in fairness I'm largely ignorant of stuff like Roku so it may well work fine through that. I don't know whether its just me and my particular circle of friends but I don't know anyone who uses anything like Roku or its equivalents. The vast majority of people seem to favour laptop's and just hooking up to a TV via an HDMI to watch stuff so if its freezing on your laptop, you're fucked.

I'm not sure I follow this entirely, or at least I'm unsure about why its the prime designator of the greatest in your view... I've maybe misinterpreted it but when you talk about transcending toolbox/skillset in that regard do you mean you would always be more inclined to view someone who becomes more than the sum of their parts as great because that's a more impressive achievement than, say, someone with more intrinsic gifts - someone who has, if you like, had to work less hard to transcend, who is more of a "natural" in some or several areas of their all round wrestling game?

Just kayfabe, Lawler never had proper training. He did the 1960s equivalent of backyard wrestling as a teenager with some of his friends, and then barely got a few sessions' worth of remedial training before being booked onto an small outlaw indy show. He was a radio DJ at the time, and the promoter figured the free publicity that Lawler would provide by plugging the show was worth putting an untried rookie in the main event, even if said rookie was so green that he didn't even know how to bump correctly; Lawler ended up whacking his head on the concrete floor during his first match and knocking himself out cold. Thing is, Jerry did indeed know Jackie Fargo, because before getting into wrestling he'd drawn a bunch of promotional pictures which the Memphis office ended up putting on TV and selling for merchandise and whatnot. So basically Jackie took him aside and said "if you wanna be a real wrestler, quit that outlaw shit and quit your radio job and come with us", and then Lawler got on-the-job training in the form of having Tojo Yamamoto beat the living shit out of him every night for the next few weeks. And the rest is history. Thanks for the thorough answer, much appreciated. Come to think of it I've heard the story about how he became a wrestler a few times already, I know its on the recent WWE DVD for a start but my memory is horrendous for exactly the reasons you might expect and this year I've begun to live a much healthier lifestyle but its quite staggering the amount of details I need to keep relearning about things. I definitely bought the Fargo being his trainer line for ages though so that's cool you've cleared that up. I am absolutely intrigued by what the "1960's equivalent of backyard wrestling" was though... I'd presumed that was a trend that largely exploded later on but thinking about it, it makes absolute sense that something like would have existed since more or less as long as kids have been exposed to watching wrestling.

115 million seems a staggering amount of money given the circumstances, but I know next to nothing about law or compensation... is that the kind of amount that is usually agreed in these kinds of public interest vs privacy cases? I know I've heard it referred to as a possible landmark case when it comes to these things but I know nothing about law or compensation... And after you've answered that we'll move onto my lifelong bemusement at why sofas are so fucking expensive when its some cloth, some foam and some wood... (I know the answer is capitalism and surplus value extraction really, but you get what I mean)

I actually really enjoyed this match, far more than I thought I would... I didn't necessarily read a lot of Kong's stuff as sloppy, more that he's just going to be naturally encumbered and not particularly smooth when it comes to certain moves and I didn't feel it veered over into dangerous work or anything like that. I agree he was probably blown up by the end but it held my attention throughout and I think I probably tend towards the opposite of your view on Moose in the match too... while this was in no way the kind of performance that makes me think "yep, stick him in there with anyone and he'll be able to get something out of them" I thought he portrayed the big guy who is usually the powerhouse against most opponents having to come up against someone really unorthodox and adjust things slightly well enough.

The only problem with Pivotshare is that it seems very prone to freezing for a lot of people. I've experienced it plenty and its a common complaint amongst other fans too. Of course, it could be any number of factors to do with the individuals internet service or computer or other such environmental factors, but yeah, its a thing. I actually love the ease of use etc and the presentation, I just hate the fact it will often freeze several times during a show, really takes me out of it.

They already do the All Japan Excite series but I'm guessing you are after more in depth stuff from further back and more of a focus on specific workers/styles/feuds/periods etc... me and two of my friends are working on a show like that right now actually, I'll post it in this section when the first one gets out there, most likely in about fifteen years time knowing our workrate.

Still not done with the show but I reached this part. This was me at my desk at work when I reached that part: Excellent show so far. Not gonna lie, I have felt thick as pigshit all day for not quite cottoning on to which part everyone was referencing here, it was very late when I listened last night though and I was also at the gym trying to pretend I was enjoying myself when I actually felt like I was about to die for most of it, so I think I get which part you mean now. Going to relisten now but the bits I managed to successfully take in were tremendous, awesome job lads!

Futureshock based in Stockport/Manchester UK has an on demand service via Vimeo. Its £7.00 a month, not sure what that is in dollars. Jack Gallagher is probably the most well known regular there, along with the likes of Bubblegum and T Bone and other North West based workers people may have seen on the more well known Progress or PCW brands.

OK then, didn't realize the criteria was that specific. I mentioned him because the specific act of smirking his way through that hearing strikes me as just about the most obvious example of needlessly outrageous heeling I could think of off the top of my head. It was in no way meant to belittle the complete shithousery of his actions. If we are only supposed to be including more inoffensive and inane stuff, stuff that is suffused with an astounding lack of self consciousness that is cringesome but not necessarily morally repugnant then my mistake. But I figured a couple of relevant contemporary examples of more genuinely awful stuff to sit alongside less heinous examples might make sense. Real life heeling is a spectrum, after all. So long as the whole thread doesn't just become people tossing out stuff as extreme as Shkreli I figured we'd be fine. I reckon we all have the ability to keep a lid on that but apologies anyway. And for the record I feel exactly the same way as you do about Shkreli, so no disagreements there. Anyway, as you were...

Just wondering as I'm working through the Memphis set at the moment: was there a particularly pre eminent trainer in that region for local guys? Lalwer was trained by Jackie Fargo, right? Or was that just kayfabe?

Outstanding. I can't even tell if he's being complimentary or scathing about some of the people he mentions, I'm just spellbound by the barely suppressed violence in his eyes. Total westhead. Anyway, one world guys, peace and harmony!

Welcome SPS and Mrzfn Absolutely great stuff, thanks so much for sharing that, genuinely brought a smile to my face. I worried about appearing out of my depth for ages on here but now I just sit back and take in as much as I can and contribute where I feel like I can. That's what its all about.