dawho5

I'm still in shock as to how amazing this match was. Everybody comes up big when they need to. The above reviews have a lot of my sentiments about this match covered, but I'll try to add more. For one, the STORY that takes place from the first elimination until the end of the match is god damn incredible. Yes, they are brutally stiff to the point where you're wondering how they do it. But once the first elimination takes place, it becomes this great struggle for survival by that guy's team for quite a while. They have to scratch and claw their way to something that might end the match only to get hit by some ridiculously stiff shot to break it up because they have one partner while the guy they are slapping the submission on has two. Once they even things up, it's this intense battle to keep afloat after that superhuman effort. Then the next elimination occurs and we get the same thing all over again two on one. And then, just when you think it can't get any better...the fourth elimination, one on one. Holy shit do they ever have one of the best mini-brawls you will ever see. Nobody is backing down, the shots are so god damn brutal, but neither one can allow themselves to get knocked down. Then they go into submission attempts, very likely because if they had continued there would have been a legit KO very soon. I was so blown away by this match, it's gonna make my top 5 easily. I'm really looking at how my top 3 or 4 are configured lately, but this will be in my top 5. I'm trying to figure out whose performance was best out of the six, but I have to be honest. Tiger and Sawa brought it for sure, but they are clearly a level below the other 4. Between the other four, I have a hard time choosing. Let's just say everybody involved in this match hit it out of the park.

There is actually some good psychology to this in addition to the fun juniors spotfest. Shingo is looking like a monster early until Yoshino and Doi go to work on the right (lariat) arm. This evens things up a bit and slows the pace down, but they work their way up to a finishing run that defies description. It goes way too far on kickouts and big setup stuff, but for a spotfest it's just fine. Shingo ignoring the arm to hoist his opponents into powerbomb or fireman's carry position over and over is a bit off. Dragon Kid has some nice impact on his ranas. Doi's versatility comes in handy here. He can overpower DK, but he's speedy enough to keep up with him. And Shingo has the power advantage on Doi, so when Doi can manage to hit a power move on Shingo it's an accomplishment. Yoshino is good as FIP and his armwork is interesting to watch at least. Not gonna get a vote, just a fun match.

Okay, that just freaked me out. My kung fu teacher uses that "putting things in a box" thing jdw used all the time in the same context. Took him about 9 months to get me to stop thinking that way.

I've always wondered if it was Waltman or the gimmick that got all the hate. Because even some of his WWF stuff was really good, and I struggle to see where the fans would have turned on him that much without some help from creative. I know for a fact I've thought the way you described about Orton, but I've lately come to the realization (with help from the Microscope thread) that it just wasn't the case.

I think that BillThompson post above pretty much sums up my love for PWO.

Can we just leave it at "OJ doesn't like those terms" for now? It's becoming pretty clear that nobody is going to change their minds here.

I'm a guy who likes match structure, I'll admit that. I don't, however, think that any match has to carry a certain kind of structure to be good. I think it's a great idea to have terms to define parts of said structure, because it simplifies the discussion of it. It only becomes problematic when you demand a certain structure. For instance, in the 2000s project, the Nishimura vs. Fujinami match has this incredible structure that is really, really tight and not one wrestling move or transition seems wasted. There's no waste at all, everything has a purpose. I love that match. But then, I love the Akiyama vs. Shibata match from WrestleOne too. The structure of that seems to be pretty simple. Akiyama gets busted open hardway by a stiff Shibata kick to the forehead and gets royally pissed. The rest of the match they just beat the everloving shit out of each other and throw in some nearfalls to make it look like a wrestling match. Still entertaining, but it doesn't exactly have what you would call a classic match structure. Then you could go to the really good AKIRA vs. Kanemoto match from 03 I think where they do the juniors opening, then the athletic juniors stuff back and forth, then one or the other decides to go after the leg dickishly. And the other figures it's better to fight fire with fire and they have this incredible battle of trying to get a leg submission to take on the other guy with little else happening during the finishing run. It's got a structure, but it's certainly not a common one. It is still good ring psychology and highly entertaining to watch. That's a bit off topic there, just trying to illustrate that it's not necessarily becoming dogmatic by having terms to describe certain parts of a match. And yeah, that WWE jargon really turned me off a lot. I know it's important to put your promotion over so people buy into your brand, but I think they take it way too far.

I used to use "control segment" a lot. Then I moved away from it for some reason and started going with FIP (even when there wasn't a true face involved) or heat segment. Don't know why I did that, maybe the term started bothering me even though I was the one using it.

Sixty minutes with lots of filler. Nakajima takes a 3 count when he's not supposed to (KENTA German around 10 minutes before the actual finish). Some of it was worthwhile, but it was given at least 20 minutes too much.

I agree with SS for early 2000s, but he seems to have some idea of building a match slowly to a fever pitch by the end as the decade wears on, where KENTA starts at a million miles per hour and only slows down during heat segments. I will say that anytime Marufuji resorts to kicks I have to ignore the fact that every one of them looks like crap because he got in the habit of slapping his leg to make it seem loud and big. And one thing I noticed in my NOAH watchings is RIkio seems to really have weak strikes as the match wears on and he gets tired. He'll half-ass those and any kind of rope-running or running into a rail or corner. Morishima at the very least has the cardio to keep moving with speed throughout the match even if his clubberins look pretty weak.