dawho5
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Everything posted by dawho5
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I've always wondered if it was Waltman or the gimmick that got all the hate. Because even some of his WWF stuff was really good, and I struggle to see where the fans would have turned on him that much without some help from creative. I know for a fact I've thought the way you described about Orton, but I've lately come to the realization (with help from the Microscope thread) that it just wasn't the case.
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I think that BillThompson post above pretty much sums up my love for PWO.
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Can we just leave it at "OJ doesn't like those terms" for now? It's becoming pretty clear that nobody is going to change their minds here.
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I'm a guy who likes match structure, I'll admit that. I don't, however, think that any match has to carry a certain kind of structure to be good. I think it's a great idea to have terms to define parts of said structure, because it simplifies the discussion of it. It only becomes problematic when you demand a certain structure. For instance, in the 2000s project, the Nishimura vs. Fujinami match has this incredible structure that is really, really tight and not one wrestling move or transition seems wasted. There's no waste at all, everything has a purpose. I love that match. But then, I love the Akiyama vs. Shibata match from WrestleOne too. The structure of that seems to be pretty simple. Akiyama gets busted open hardway by a stiff Shibata kick to the forehead and gets royally pissed. The rest of the match they just beat the everloving shit out of each other and throw in some nearfalls to make it look like a wrestling match. Still entertaining, but it doesn't exactly have what you would call a classic match structure. Then you could go to the really good AKIRA vs. Kanemoto match from 03 I think where they do the juniors opening, then the athletic juniors stuff back and forth, then one or the other decides to go after the leg dickishly. And the other figures it's better to fight fire with fire and they have this incredible battle of trying to get a leg submission to take on the other guy with little else happening during the finishing run. It's got a structure, but it's certainly not a common one. It is still good ring psychology and highly entertaining to watch. That's a bit off topic there, just trying to illustrate that it's not necessarily becoming dogmatic by having terms to describe certain parts of a match. And yeah, that WWE jargon really turned me off a lot. I know it's important to put your promotion over so people buy into your brand, but I think they take it way too far.
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I used to use "control segment" a lot. Then I moved away from it for some reason and started going with FIP (even when there wasn't a true face involved) or heat segment. Don't know why I did that, maybe the term started bothering me even though I was the one using it.
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Sixty minutes with lots of filler. Nakajima takes a 3 count when he's not supposed to (KENTA German around 10 minutes before the actual finish). Some of it was worthwhile, but it was given at least 20 minutes too much. -
I agree with SS for early 2000s, but he seems to have some idea of building a match slowly to a fever pitch by the end as the decade wears on, where KENTA starts at a million miles per hour and only slows down during heat segments. I will say that anytime Marufuji resorts to kicks I have to ignore the fact that every one of them looks like crap because he got in the habit of slapping his leg to make it seem loud and big. And one thing I noticed in my NOAH watchings is RIkio seems to really have weak strikes as the match wears on and he gets tired. He'll half-ass those and any kind of rope-running or running into a rail or corner. Morishima at the very least has the cardio to keep moving with speed throughout the match even if his clubberins look pretty weak.
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Starts off good with KENTA vs. Nakajima. Kobashi and Sasaki have one of their awful pissing contests that go nowhere. Then they hit each other's big head drop (half nelson and northern lights bomb) on each other. That was kinda cool. Each junior gets a heat segment, KENTA's going a bit longer. Kobashi and Sasaki chop each other while the juniors counter finishers into rollups and try to toll the other up before time limit. Draw. Match wasn't too bad, but a lot of this Kobashi vs. Sasaki nonsense goes too far. Juniors are the highlight here, but it's not enough to get a vote. Also, a little too much no-selling towards the end.
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This is a really good grappling match. Greco is clearly the quicker of the two and he has counters every time Ishikawa gets aggressive and shoots in on him. Once Ishikawa is in trouble, he seems to have trouble escaping as Greco always seems a step ahead. Greco also likes to use bodyscissors style moves in an attempt to take away Ishikawa's breathing. Ishikawa switches it up and lets Greco be the aggressor, which leads to a few successes for Ishikawa. He gets a little overconfident and forgets how he got to Greco and shoots right in off a rope break, which leads to more problems for Ishikawa. Ishikawa tries to even things up with a suplex as he is clearly the bigger and stronger of the two. Greco scrambles right back into grappling with a clearly winded Ishikawa. Ishikawa smartly goes back to counter wrestling and it works, getting him some very nice submissions that Greco narrowly escapes. Ishikawa continues with the advantage and momentum, but can he make the comeback before the slippery Greco finds the hold that Ishikawa can't escape? This should probably be above 75, but very likely not in the top 50.
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[2008-03-02-NOAH-Second Navigation] Mitsuharu Misawa vs Takeshi Morishima
dawho5 replied to Loss's topic in March 2008
This was an alright match. Morishima has some really huge offense, including the world's biggest running plancha. The story seems to be playing off of Morishima's inability to really come up with believable ways that he could put Misawa away. It's not excessive during the finishing run, but one thing really bothers me. Morishima uses lariats all match because that's his one weapon that can do a whole lot to Misawa. Problem is, he uses it four times as a nearfall too. I know Morishima has other things he could plug in there to build to his big backdrop (which he does with...backdrops). A bit too much repetition at the end. Morishima doesn't seem to have grown much in the two years between these matches at all. -
I thought they could have just had Kobashi go, say, 40 with Kawada at the time and it would have put him over. You have to remember thatat that point Kobashi was still well below Kawada in the pecking order. It seemed almost like a slap in the face to Kawada to not put Kobashi away. I think that most of the problems I have with 2000s puro are based on match length. If they cut the majority of the "big" matches down to 15-20 minutes instead of 25-30, they could eliminate a lot of the excess nearfalls, noselling, one counts, strike exchanges, etc.
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I do like when the NOAH matches surprise me. Takayama has been treated like a warm body in these tags he's been in for NOAH the last few years. In this he is a force of nature again. He is the equalizer to Kobashi, and that matchup is the engine that drives this match. They are dead even throughout in a very entertaining way. Sano is half worthless half okay. Aoki is mostly just there. I really hate how most of the time when Honda shows up he is just there to put over somebody who doesn't have the ring smarts or the skill he has, but in this match he gets to shine a little on his own. He is so very wasted in NOAH. I really wish he'd gone to Battlarts or Futen or even NJPW. As much as I hate to say it, his style would actually have fit far better there than NOAH. Even Steven match until we get to the KENTA heat segment. As always, it's good, sometimes despite Sano's worst efforts. Kobashi gets the hot tag and...has to really work to make anything stick because Takayama is back to 2000-2002 form, and that right there is why this match is good. When Kobashi has to work instead of just rolling over everyone with chops, it's entertaining. Finishing sequence is actually really well-worked, with the exception of Aoki and KENTA flying all over the ring in a completely out of place section of it, no he-should-be-dead kickouts like most NOAH tags. This will probably be somewhere in the 65-80 range.
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This was just a brawl for the first 15 or so minutes. No structure, just the NJPW guys kicking the crap out of the Zero One team. Z1 gets their comebacks, but nothing too long. Finishing sequence keeps the chaos rolling along and it works since the rest of the match didn't have any real story besides the "invaders vs. home team" thing. They work a nice rope break on the ankle lock. Both Hidaka and Taguchi survive more big offense than they should. Overall just a fun invasion-style brawl.
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30 minute time limit means this won't be overlong. Nakajima does well enough with his heat segment, selling the beating pretty good. Only problem is, by the time it starts we have established that any strikes he throws that aren't kicks have no effect on Akiyama & Rikio. So the exact moment of the big comeback is pretty easy to spot. Same problem happens during the finishing run. Sasaki does fine as the hot tag, but some miscommunication during his run of not-quite-finisher spots with Akiyama doesn't do the match any favors. Nakajima gets tagged back in to have his moment in the sun, hits a nice German and goes back to being the heavyweights' toy again. Finish is fine, too many lariats, too many obvious strike exchanges with Nakajima, but perfectly good match otherwise. They don't overdo the nearfalls or kill any one guy too much. Just there's enough not right that it probably won't get a vote.
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25 minutes of spot fu. Well, early on KAGETORA gets tied up in lucharesu knots by Oyanagei, but that's just technical spot fu in the grand scheme of things.
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It was 40 minutes. I watched all of it. Not voting for it.