cubbymark

Bumping this thread in light of Charlotte’s match with Rhea Ripley at Wrestlemania 39. This is Exhibit A of when Charlotte is on her A game, there are few people who are better.

I appreciate Matt vocalizing his criticisms of Omega. I still don’t get Omega, and probably never will. Seeing him in the ring with Danielson and the pronounced differences between their respective approaches is stark. Omega gets the jazz hands critique and part of it is that even though he does all these movements, they don’t mean anything or add anything. Danielson makes everything count, perhaps too much given some of the bumps he took last night.

@Jesse Ewiak I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt empty with the CM Punk AEW debut. If anything, I think Punk’s AEW may have buried a part of my fandom on Friday for the worst. Copy/paste from what I wrote in DVDVR: I understand Punk wanting to wait for AEW to be viable before joining them. But him joining now seems too little too late for me to be excited about. Had he put his money where his mouth was two years ago, the vision of what and how AEW presents wrestling might be different than what it is today. If Punk had signed up as an EVP in 2019, he could have really bridged the gap between people that were sick of Bullet Club/Elite antics then and the current AEW diehards. While The Bucks, Omega, and Cody aren’t my cup of tea, I can respect that they jumped out on their own and done what they have done up to this point. We’ve seen two years of the vision Tony Khan has for wrestling and the influence his current EVP team has had in that vision. I can be honest in saying I don’t like it, even though there’s tons of guys and gals I really like(d) outside the AEW Universe. I know I will be the lone man on this island but I’ve always been an outlier anyway. Punk showing up in AEW last night made me feel empty. I was not overwhelmed with joy and happiness or tears (even if in some ways it was the worst kept secret in wrestling). Punk just showed up. Arguably the worst kept secret in wrestling. Punk then cut a 20 minute RAW opening segment promo while the United Center chanted CM Punk. Everyone else ate it up while I felt empty and hollow. Maybe modern wrestling just isn’t for me anymore, be it from Orlando or Jacksonville. It almost felt like Punk’s endorsement of AEW made me less likely to want to check them out. In a weird way, I felt like Punk was burying my fandom of wrestling on Friday night, or what is masquerading as wrestling today. It’s a real shitty feeling for me since I have been watching for over 30 years. I grew up on WWF Superstars in English and Spanish, WCW Worlwide/Pro, LPWA. I would even watch WOW Women of Wrestling in high school. I’ve gone to local indies whenever possible, ROH shows, etc. I lurked on message boards like here for years, read 411mania and Larry Csonka’s reviews. I subscribed to the Wrestling Observer newsletter at one point and gobble an unhealthy amount of wrestling podcasts. Mind you, CM Punk’s run in 2011 was amazing and it was because of him that I went to my first WWE PPV: MITB 2011. That was an amazing night that I will never forget as long as I live. But that momentum just withered on the vine and pro wrestling is where it is as a result. Things happened, and Punk left WWE. Part of me doesn’t want to go through that disappointment again if the Punk pop turns out to be less than a fad and AEW can’t take advantage of it. But modern wrestling today just makes me feel empty. 2011 me went crazy for CM Punk. 2019 me probably would have gone crazy as well. 2021 me, not so much. And I don’t know why that is.

Bummer I can’t make these because I work nights.

Bill and Buddy Landell in Memphis around 85-86 even though it was a short run was really good.

I mentioned this in the Speaking Out thread, but Chris Benoit will be my #100. Prior to the tragedy, he was my favorite wrestler and was the epitome of what I liked in wrestling. To me, he’s my scarlet letter of pro wrestling in that I can’t ignore all the good and bad he’s done. To pretend like he didn’t exist would be wrong. But he can’t be worshipped in the way he used to be.

I’m with Mos on this one. At best it is a lateral move for AEW. For all the talk from certain outlets (Voices of Wrestling) on how the only number that matters is THE DEMO, the fact that AEW is moving to TBS is interesting. The other caveat is that we don’t know if Dynamite is staying on Wednesdays. No doubt the move to TBS is in no small part because Turner threw a shit ton of money at the NHL. Even though their DEMO numbers aren’t as strong as AEW’s, $$$ talks.The Friday night slot for Rampage sounds like death. We could be looking at a Nitro/Thunder situation, along with the over saturation of programming if you include the YouTube shows. If the plan is to sell all that programming in 2022 to get an NHL or WWE style payout from a broadcaster, we’ll see.

Miro needs to kill I Like Turtles dude in 30 seconds like he did Mojo Rawley in NXT.

Her involvement in this Randy Orton/Fiend nonsense is disqualifying.

Randy Savage is another potential hub wrestler to consider. US Outlaw in his fathers promotion in the late 70s/early 80s. Memphis in 84/85, has some Puerto Rico stuff on tape. His WWF run from 85-93. His WCW run would have him on Worldwide and Pro wrestling the likes of Bunkhouse Buck on occasion. Has some random Japan matches on tape as well, including a match vs Jushin Liger who he gives 85% of the match to.

It’s a shame CMLL went to shit once Rush went to ROH. Los Ingobernables is one of the most influential stables of the 2010s, and Rush being such a smug prick really put them over the top for me. He’s sort of a Lucha Roman Reigns in that the office kept trying to push him as a tecnico, but Lucha crowds just wanted to hate his guts. So CMLL sorta turned him, calling him the most hated tecnico. The rest is history. Like all things, Los Ingobernables got diluted with overexposure and when his dad joined the fold. The current CMLL Version is even worse. But this group doesn’t work at all if Rush wasn’t a part. Rush can be a great Lucha brawler in the tradition of Pirate Morgan, Satanico, you name it. The problem is that Lucha booking is usually filled with fuck finishes, and Rush hasn’t had the right apuestas match to really vault him into Lucha legend status. But most of his brawls with LA Park are fantastic. His ROH run hasn’t set the world on fire, but it could be because of the pandemic. Rush will be an interesting name depending on what happens in the next five years.

I remember not liking the 1976 cage match vs Stan Hansen because Bruno seemingly got 95% of the match, and WWWF Escape the Cage with Bruno walking tall falls flat for me. Maybe I should rewatch it at some point for both Bruno and Hansen cases.

Kaufman really is the most prominent argument in favor of peak vs longevity.

Matt D mentioned hazing, and if my understanding of Japanese dojo’s is correct, they were notorious for hazing trainees. A lot of the Joshi names Grimmas is high on more than likely participated in hazing trainees or were victims of hazing themselves.

To me, Okada is a Japanese Randy Orton. He bores me to tears. His matches are way too long. A lot of the early mat work to drag out the New Japan epic main event style match is rendered worthless. And I absolutely loathe the Rainmaker as a finisher for him. His build is too lanky for me to believe it to be as devastating as a Stan Hansen lariat. And let’s not forget baggy pants era Okada. Not a good look. But I recognize this is a me problem. I have no doubt he will do much better on the 2026 list than he did in 2016, especially amongst most hardcore New Japan fans and Dave Meltzer subscribers.

I had this revelation about Sheamus as I wrote up my thoughts on Mania night 2. To me, he is kind of a WWE version of Tomohiro Ishii. He lays in his stuff, he isn’t afraid of taking a big shot when needed. Maybe his highs aren’t as high, but he serves a similar purpose. Underrated tag wrestler. At this point he is credible vs anyone you feud him with. And unlike Ishii, Sheamus will get a push here and there from time to time.

I kind of agree with Phil as it pertains to Lawler. It’s because the Benoit stuff happened that caused me to appreciate Lawler’s style of doing more with less. Perfect example would be the match Matt D posted. There’s tons of stalling, but even in his 70s, Lawler’s punches look great and the heel bumped big for each and every one.

I had Benoit on my list at 100 last time around. I can’t deny that he had such a large influence on my enjoyment of pro wrestling up until the point in time the modern/suicide tragedies occurred. I can’t pretend Benoit still doesn’t have some influence on the modern style presented today. That being said, I won’t vote for him any higher because of all those same reasons. I consider Benoit to be my scarlet letter of enjoyment of pro wrestling and he will probably stay at 100 for as many GWE lists as I end up being a part of. As for all the sexual assault guys and speaking out guys, it’s much easier for me to dismiss them out of hand with the exception of Jerry Lawler. It’s because of the Benoit tragedy that I started to enjoy the more, “less is more” approach from guys like Lawler. So for me, it’s likely Lawler will drop on my list this time around.

Charlotte Flair A second generation star who happens to be Ric Flair’s daughter. Just because you are the offspring of a wrestling legend, doesn’t always mean all the natural talent transfers over. Just look at David Flair. She is considered to be one of the WWE Horsewomen and is generally pushed very well. To me she’s probably the most underrated of the four. She might get some backlash from folks, but she can get in the ring and do very athletic and creative things. Charlotte is also a tremendous big match wrestler. When she is a heel, she definitely exudes her daddy’s swagger and arrogance. She can be extremely vicious when necessary. Matches: Vs Ronda Rousey Survivor Series 2018 Vs Rhea Ripley Wrestlemania 36, Night 2 Vs Asuka Wrestlemania 34

I never want to see The Fiend or Randy Orton again. I never thought a tag match with Nia, Tamina and Nattie would be half as good as it actually was. Yes, it followedFiend/Orton, but it was nothing short of a miracle. They actually got the crowd to bite for a body slam near fall in the year of our lord 2021! Shayna brought the intensity like she always does and the finish with the double submission was cool. Zayn vs Owens was a sprint version of their indie spot fests, and started the trend of PWG ring apron bumps. Logan Paul getting a stunner was neat, although there was decent action on MyBookie if he would have gone through a table instead. Riddle gets a lot of shit people, some of it deserved. Sheamus had a nice hoss battle and isn’t afraid of taking it and dishing it out. This might sound like blasphemy to some, but he just might be the WWE’s version of Tomohiro Ishii as far as being the designated Pitbull Hoss wrestler. And the Brogue kick to a flipping Riddle was cool. I was starting to doze off a little during Big E/Apollo. They laid it in with their Singapore cane shots, and Big E’s spear to the floor always looks great. They didn’t really use the “Nigerian drums” props as much which I guess is for the best. I had to look up who Apollo’s new muscle was, but he picked up Big E with ease. Rhea vs Asuka felt short. Asuka’s selling was pretty good for the most part. The DDT to the floor looked wicked. Rhea winning was the right call, but the Riptide came OUTTA NOWHERE. I skipped Aunt Pam/Bella’s segment. Looks like I didn’t misS much. The main event was good, but big eyed Edge looks so ridiculous. The finish was fantastic and was quite the visual to establish Roman’s current dominance. I feel like I liked Night 1 more as others have mentioned. I actually kind of like the two night Mania format. It lets all these matches breathe a bit more and stand out more rather than trying to drag out a ten hour card and burn a crowd out entirely.

Oh boy, AEW continues to exploit -1.

Having too many factions can lead to a dilution of the overall product. Just like most sports leagues have diluted themselves due to expansion, I feel you would run into the same problem with wrestling. As it is, WWE feels bloated and diluted because they have so many guys and gals on the main roster between two “brands” plus NXT US and UK even though in ring it’s probably as good as it’s ever been. AEW is going to have the same problem filling over 4+ hrs of content on TNT and YouTube. There’s only going to be so many big teams or factions fans will care about or draw money with. For as good as the Tampa Bay Rays or Oakland A’s can be, they just don’t draw the same interest as when the Yankees or Red Sox do well. As it is, Bullet Club/The Elite even as the top factions for US indie groups/AEW have only been able to generate so much interest.

Hearing JR have to put over Daryl Jr's excursion was worth it's weight in gold... As for the topic at hand, what gets me in trouble is that I just let my subscription automatically renew and forget to cancel, even if I am not getting as much out of the subscription as I could due to real life getting in the way.

Kevin Kelly annoyed me at times, but I understood what was being said. As someone who speaks Spanish and watches a decent amount of lucha, even though I understand the commentary, it can be actively bad in CMLL and AAA at times. That's the other wrinkle when it comes to Japanese (sounds enthusiastic and "authentic" but if I knew what they were saying, I would hate it vs. Understanding everything and being annoyed because commentary can be badJericho with the carry job of the decade getting as good a match out of Omega as he did. The match had no business being as good as it was, but Jericho did all the heavy lifting in this one. He brought the intensity in the build-up, and he held his own athletically. The springboard dropkick counter was perfect. Kenny kept most of his bad habits to a minimum outside spraying his dick a la Joey Ryan. ***7/8 for me, match of the night. The rope break inconsistency to me hurts the match. One more thing, Kevin Kelly can go to hell for telling Omega critics to go to hell after that match, when from my perspective it was Jericho that dragged Kenny kicking and screaming to a really good match. Goto/Suzuki was really good. Suzuki is such a bad ass and has an aura almost no one else has. Goto held his own getting his ass whipped and was really sympathetic. The finish was neat and Suzuki coming back to shave his own head was cool. ***3/4. I feel like I am on an island, but I still do not get Kazuchika Okada. He actively made this match boring for me. His control segments were so Randy Orton inspired (or lack thereof) that this dragged. Naito tried to make me care, but that finish is so incomprehensible. If this finish were done for Roman Reigns going over someone, especially the hottest act in the world on Naito, the Internet would be imploding from the bitchfest about shoving Roman down our throats. But somehow Gedo gets a pass. That's bullshit. **, although I was tempted to give this a DUD for that finish. Second Worst match of the show. The worst match of this show without a doubt goes to the so-called Ace, Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Jay White. That match sucked. As someone who has found Tanahashi incredibly overrated over the years, this match has jusitified what I have felt about him for a long time. There was no reason for it to go as long as it did other than satiating Tanahashi ' s ego. There was no reason for Tanahashi to win if the plan is to make White a star. There was no reason to do both of those things outside of Tanahashi pulling a Hogan political job on White. Tanahashi was actively bad and did White no favors, making him look like a geek. DUD.

The kids and grandkids of that great crowd that were so great cheering for Mark Lewin's 1980 face turn. Granted, teenage me would have chanted ECW for hardcore spots when I was a teenager. During the ROH Chicago show with Kenny Omega, the ECW chants made me cringe. I did like Mauro's One Man Gang reference early in the show even though it did feel forced.