Matt Farmer

Fukada was the New Japan young boy that during a match with Shibata, believe it was said to be a brain hemorrhage. First match I saw of Grey was when he was wrestling Tatsumi Fujinami. At the time Fujinami was one of the best and Grey was having a great match with Fujinami. I need to go back and watch that match again and see if it holds up.

That's disgusting? Chanting "this is awesome" during a Miz/Mizdow match IS just as disgusting as chanting "she's a crack whore" towards Tammy Sytch. At least one of those chants was true, and the other has Miz in so we know it a lie.

The "This is awesome" chant when 95% of the time they should be chanting "This is okay" or "This is alright". Maybe even "This is acceptable".

You're right there were more full time female wrestlers making a living prior to Moolah and the 70's. Remember though for as bad as Moolah was, Billy Wolfe was just as bad and probably way worse. Hell he and his son beat Mildred Burke up once, and were talking about Husband/step-son. Not to mention Burke slept with both of them. I'm not sure if Penny Banner was a bigger star but June Beyers probably was. Both were better wrestlers but that besides the point. "Girl wrestlers" was the draw in most cases, not Fabulous Moolah. She was a draw like Sky Low Low or Lord Littlebrook. Not a knock on those women wrestlers, I've got to know some of the women that worked for Moolah and some of them are very nice women and were very good in the ring. Two of the more underrated women wrestlers in the US is Judy Martin and Leilani Kai, they were a great tag team.

My understanding is that it was NOT a sideshow attraction prior to Moolah. She was the one primarily responsible for turning it into one. And I have watched enough midget matches to know that midget matches are awesome. A sideshow attraction match on wrestling cards does not have to be realistic, yes, but it needs to be entertaining and good. It was as much the mess cause by Billy Wolfe and Mildred Burke that left a sour taste in the NWA's mouth. And even before Moolah the way Wolfe booked/pimped out the women was similar to Moolah. Mildred Burke was like a Gorgeous George who worked best coming in a few weeks at a time. The difference is between the two is Mildred Burke had a ton of charisma and Moolah really didn't. Nor was she anything special as a gimmick. Mildred came across as almost like a Ronda Rousey. She was muscular and athletic when women weren't and she had the built in reputation that she could beat up guys, she was legit enough to where people would buy it, plus she was charismatic.

Are we just talking about the National Wrestling Alliance? Because if you want to include the National Wrestling Association you open up huge draws like Jim Londos and Bill Longson. It's hard to say who was the best but Gene Kiniski is left out of the conversation and he was one of the top four or five. Ahead of guys like Brisco and Terry Funk for sure. Pat O'Connor was a big draw too, but not in comparison to Buddy Rogers. Buddy's short run was huge at the box office. Even though he worked in the Northeast often he still set records in Washington DC, Chicago, St. Louis, Vancouver BC, and some other markets that are not associated with huge business. Thesz had some remarkable years as champion. He did set box office records in many markets like Los Angeles, Houston and St. Louis and was one of the more prolific travelers too. A lot of the champs "went home" and worked their sponsored territories where Thesz really didn't have one. Flair was an excellent draw as NWA champion when he was a touring NWA Champion, and he did travel a lot too. I don't know if Flair's 82' to 85' run is better than Buddy Rogers two year run. And I don't think any NWA Champion had a better two year run than Buddy.

I just don't buy that. The green horns have seen the pros work. They know they throw punches. They know they're fake. I also doubt that they aren't taught to throw a punch before their first match, or even to sell a punch before their first match. Wrestling bumps aren't really judo falls. You're picked up and slammed, not "thrown". They didn't teach a wrestling 101 spot before they actually got in the ring for their first match? "Here's how I pick you up and slam you. I'm going to do this real gentle so you can learn, but in a match we're going to slam the shit out of you." Seriously? Arm drags, hiptosses and slam are all faker than shit in pro wrestling. We all know that. Even cool ones like Steamer against Savage. Exchange holds. Slam. Sell. Sure it's boring, but it's also faker than fake from the start. At 10 I knew generally how it was done: they didn't punch each other in the face like George Foreman hit Joe Fraizer in the face. If I really cared to study it, it wouldn't have been hard to see how they missed the punches, or how some of them liked to stomp the mat to give the "sound" while others like to smack themselves to give a nice meaty sound, or how the guy getting hit would snap his head back. How easy would it have been to see stuff? It's the exact same thing that I did when watching the things I cared about. As a baseball fan and player, I'd watch how the 2B would phantom touch the base, avoid the base runner, side arm to 1B if needed. I'd see how fielders would "look the runner back". I'd study how to position yourself for relay throws, how to "back up" throws, etc. This was all stuff before I was coached by some idiot Little League coach who faked his way through fundamentals. Some of it my dad would point out to me, but most of it would be stuff that I would pick up because he pushed me to look at stuff, pick up things, and then come to him to test out the thinking. In hoops, I didn't do a "set shot" like other kids often did. Why? Because the pros and college players shot above their heads with wrist action. As soon as I could, that's what I practiced. Football throwing a spiral? Watch and practice. Basically were to believe that Pro Wrestling in Training are the Dumbest Mother Fuckers In The World because they can't see the wrestling is Fake (as people had since the 1880s if not earlier) or figure out some of the most basic Fakiness. I don't buy it. Never have. I'm not saying that on the first day they teach you how to get thrown off the top like Ric Flair, or how to get shoved by the ref and bump like Flair. But if Buddy knew it was a work, he certainly knew *how* it was worked before his debut. Over time "on the road" he may have learned stuff like how to work the crowd. But even that is easy to see even before you're working: "Shut up, Fatboy!" -Ric Flair You watched Flair or Hogan before you trained, Matt. You knew how they worked the crowd. Wrestling in the 80s wasn't any more advanced that it was in the 70s in that regards. Trainees were any dumber in the 70s that you were watching wrestling in the 80s. Never did I say they didn't know it was a work. You can buy it or not. They weren't training guys how to throw fake punches. Hell they weren't even teaching advance things like running the ropes of ring placement. Training was very simple by design. You learned on the road. It's okay to be cynical, being around wrestling for so long does that to you. But it's the truth.

Hase was originally signed by All Japan Pro Wrestling, then when Choshu left for New Japan Hase went with him. He went through their dojo system before getting booked in Puerto Rico where he stayed six months before going to Calgary. He would have learned all of his fundamentals while in the Japanese Dojo's. The time spent on the road in Calgary is where he would have gained some seasoning. I wouldn't not call that "training" though. He was learning while on the road, not in a gym. You'll learn more in the back seat of a car travelling 300 miles than you will wrestling for 15 minutes.

Whenever a wrestler says that, the bullshit detector should go off. 10 year old fans in the 70s knew wrestling was a work. You honestly believe that guys training learning how to throw Fake Punches and take Bumps didn't know it was a work? That they spent their entire training camps doing shoot matches / sparing? Doesn't matter how many times people say it, it's still bullshit. Just as much as it's bullshit when Thesz talked about how people wrestled in his day. Then we got enough tape, and there's Lou bitching & selling & begging off for Verne. First off no trainer during the 70's is going to teach someone how to throw a fake punch. They did not expose that side of the business to green horns. They didn't teach guys how to run the ropes or take a turn buckle or taking bumps out of the ring, that was not something that was taught. Those were things you learned on the road. You were taught to bump, just the same as you are taught to take falls in Judo. Anyone will tell you that. Talk to anyone who had some old style training, when teaching holds they would go light, just like they do when you are learning technique in amateur wrestling or today's MMA. You can't learn that technique if it's done full speed. They did not teach selling, they did not teach begging off or working they simply taught holds. The most advance technique you would learn is something like an arm drag, a hiptoss and maybe a body slam. When it came time for your match you were instructed to do exactly what you learned and trained to do. That's why matches between two rookies during that time were extremely basic and almost just an exchange in holds. Just like when you were ten you may have know it was fake, but you didn't know how it was fake. I know when I was trained I knew it was fake and how some things were done but didn't know the extent of how it was worked and that was in the early 90's. Rose told me he knew it was a work, but didn't know how it was worked. But those trainers that trained wrestlers during that era were very guarded in what was trained. They told you just enough to get by, and everything else was learned over time. And you were taught things when you gained some trust from the boys.

If Takada then Akira Maeda should get in first.

He's not a Hall of Fame wrestler, nor is he a Hall of Fame promoter.

I've talked extensively about this subject with Buddy Rose who was in Verne's 73' camp. He always praised Verne as a trainer and that he was there nearly every day and if the boys were doing a work out he would join in. He was very hands on, but he wasn't able to be there everyday. During his camp he would have Billy Robinson, Lars Anderson and Iron Sheik helping out. As for Stu Hart, I've heard just the opposite in that he was less hands on and relied on his Japanese boys to do most of the day to day training. Of course he would go down and stretch the boys, but he wasn't showing them how to bump. Wrestling training was MUCH different in the 60's, 70's and 80's than it is today. Most trainers did not expose the business, so there was no talk or hint of training that had anything to do with learning about psychology, or working. You were taught how to bump in most cases (but not all) and how to get in and out of holds. You learned how to work once you got on the road. Rose and Slaughter both told me they were never smartened up, and there were no clues that the business was a work until the day of their first match together. Buddy had been around the business for a long time helping with the ring truck and as an usher and hanger on and knew something was up, even knew the boys talked to each other while wrestling. But didn't truly know until that day. But from talking with many I would say Verne deserves more credit for training than Stu Hart. Now on the subject of trifecta besides both Antonio Inoki and Giant Baba who should get as much or more credit than a Stu Hart because they DID go to the dojo and workout a lot. And while they were not full time dojo trainers their presence was there often and when the young boys went on the road they often worked out with them. Both Baba and Inoki would take one of the young boys and that young boy was now their personal servant. To me one of the top guys who are that trifecta would be Rikidozan. He was definitely a Hall of Fame wrestler and promoter, and just look at the list of his students that include both Baba and Inoki,

They worked each other for Cesar Johnson when his promotion was hot in Nuevo Laredo. Would have been in June of 2001, he worked a 3 way with LA Park in which Dandy lost his hair. I just happened to be looking at this promotion earlier today and remember this result.

I'm sure I've seen it but need to go back and watch it. As it's been a really long time since I've watched that footage, don't even think I've seen it since I had most of the tapes transferred to DVD. I'll have to go and watch it.

In regards to heat between Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada I've heard that it started while the two were rivals in High School or dating back to High School. Then when the two were young boys Kawada felt that Misawa (who was a year ahead of Kawada) did not receive the same punishment as some of the other young boys. There was the one famous fight between the two that left both of their faces battered and bruised. This was the fight that pissed off Baba.

I would also really like to see some more of the highly respected tag teams of the 60's and early 70's like Assassins, the Infernos with JC Dykes and even the Fabulous Kangaroos and of course Ray Stevens & Pat Patterson. It would be cool to see how their psychology as tag teams were for the era. I'm on board with the rest in regards to Luchadores. One of my big wishes is that someday we discovery more footage from the 70's and early 80's in Mexico. Business was so hot during that time it's almost hard for people to contemplate today. If you look at some of the weekly cards at El Toreo in Naucalpan they are filled from top to bottom of Hall of Famers or guys that should be in the HOF. Also put me in for wanting more footage from Europe. Would love to see some of the old tournaments out of Germany or Austria, heck I want to see more footage of the underrated Otto Wanz. I'd also like to see footage of South African wrestling from the 70's and early 80's. After hearing from both Don Leo Jonathan and Ed Wiskoski how much of a crowbar and how over Jan Wilkens was I'd like to see it with my own eyes.

I know this is a bit off topic but a week ago over on the WCMB I posted all of Ric Flair's matches in the Northwest during the 80's while he was a touring NWA World Champion. Portland was one of the last outside dates he took besides Japan. Here is the list. Here is Flair's Northwest matches. 1982 4/10 Portland OR W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 4/11 Finley WA DDQ Rocky Johnson (NWA World Title) 4/12 Longview WA: DCO Rocky Johnson (NWA World Title) 4/13 Portland OR W Buddy Rose (NWA World Title) 4/14 Seattle WA W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 4/15 Salem OR D Rocky Johnson (NWA World Title) 4/16 Eugene OR W Rocky Johnson (NWA World Title) 9/26 Prineville OR W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 9/27 Albany OR W Terry Gibbs (NWA World Title) 9/28 Portland OR L CO Buddy Rose (NWA World Title) 9/29 Seattle WA L DQ Buddy Rose (NWA World Title) 9/30 Salem OR W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 10/1 Eugene OR W Terry Gibbs (NWA World Title) 10/2 Portland OR W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 1983 5/8 Centralia WA W Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 5/9 Longview WA W Buddy Rose (NWA World Title) 5/10 Portland OR D (60:00) Roddy Piper (NWA World Tile) Expo Center 5/11 Seattle WA W Roddy Piper (NWA World Title) 5/12 Yakima WA W Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 5/13 Eugene OR W Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 5/14 Portland OR w/Rip Oliver L Roddy Piper & Billy Jack Haynes 1984 4/30 Bellingham WA W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 5/1 Portland OR D (60:00) Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 5/2 Seattle WA D (60:00) Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 5/3 Cheney WA L DQ Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 5/4 Eugene OR W Brett Sawyer (NWA World Title) 5/5 Portland OR w/Rip Oliver W Buddy Rose & Matt Borne 10/19 Eugene OR W Rip Oliver (NWA World Title) 10/20 Portland OR L DQ Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 10/21 Pendleton OR W Tom Prichard (NWA World Title) 10/22 Molalla OR W Tom Prichard (NWA World Title) 10/23 Portland OR W Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 10/24 Seattle WA W Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 1985 4/9 Portland OR W Curt Hennig (NWA World Title) 4/10 Seattle WA W Bobby Jaggers (NWA World Title) 4/11 Salem OR W Bobby Jaggers (NWA World Title) 4/12 Eugene OR W Bobby Jaggers (NWA World Title) 4/13 Portland OR D Karl Steiner (NWA World Title) 5/21 Portland OR D Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) Coliseum 9/23 Portland OR D Magnum TA (NWA World Title) Coliseum 9/24 Seattle WA D Billy Jack Haynes (NWA World Title) 1986 1/21 Portland OR W DQ Dusty Rhodes (NWA World Title) Coliseum 1/22 Seattle WA W DQ Dusty Rhodes (NWA World Title) 3/25 Portland OR W Dusty Rhodes (NWA World Title) Cage Match Coliseum 3/26 Seattle WA W Dusty Rhodes (NWA World Title) Cage Match 3/27 Spokane WA W Coco Samoa (NWA World Title) 5/20 Portland OR W DQ Rip Oliver (sub for Billy Jack NWA World Title) 5/21 Seattle WA W Ronnie Garvin (NWA World Title) 1988 8/3 Seattle WA w/Blanchard & Anderson & Windham L Road Warriors & Luger & Koloff (Cage Match) 9/20 Portland OR L DQ Top Gun (Dave Sierra NWA World Title) 1989 1/11 Seattle WA W Sting (NWA World Title) 1/12 Portland OR W Sting (NWA World Title) So if my addition is right, here are the number of NWA Championship defenses Ric Flair had in the Northwest and who his opponents were. Brett Sawyer 7 Rocky Johnson 4 Buddy Rose 4 Terry Gibbs 2 Billy Jack Haynes 11 Roddy Piper 2 Rip Oliver 2 Tom Prichard 2 Curt Hennig 1 Bobby Jaggers 3 Karl Steiner 1 Magnum TA 1 Dusty Rhodes 4 Coco Samoa 1 Ronnie Garvin 1 Top Gun 1 Sting 2

Yes it would have been September 28th & 29th of 1982. It was Flair's second tour as NWA Champ in the northwest. Rose would have been a heel of course, and Flair would have been a heel too but he was the champ so it's possible people would cheer for the hometown guy as Rose still had a home in the Northwest. September 28th was a Tuesday special at the Portland Sports Arena and the next night in Seattle at the Seattle Center Arena. Earlier in the year in April Flair came into Portland for a week and did defend against Rose once in Portland on another Tuesday special but Buddy didn't start working New York until the Summer of 82'. Most of Flair's defenses were against Rocky Johnson or Brett Sawyer.

In an interview with Steamboat, it may have even been one of those horrible RF Video interviews. He talks about working with Luger, and while he may have allowed Luger to call the match which is Steamboat's MO. He did discuss positioning Luger to work the crowd, and timing of the match. It's easy to allow someone to call the match and still be in control of the match. For example. As a babyface who is selling, and the heel calls a spot to switch the heat or even a hope spot. You as the babyface can simply say "not now" or "wait" or simply give him the office. Steamboat is excellent that way. I've had the pleasure of being in the ring with him and he is very smooth at directing people even when he is not the one calling spots. I saw him work with a clueless Daniel Rodimer and allow Rodimer call everything yet Ricky had him positioned and timed to where it looked halfway decent.

Yes it was, plus Brock got a great dollar per buy deal too.

Brock has been very vocal about how he is used, and often blows off the creative writer assigned to him, and often works with Hunter or Vince with a writer. Which is smart and something that he should do. His UFC was never a huge "guarantee" deal. In his previous deal he was only guaranteed 500K per fight and a scaled percentage of pay per view buys. From what I understand about his negotiations with UFC, is that Dana did offer him a great deal for three fights. But negotiations did not really go that far as both almost knew that it was more of a negotiation ploy than anything. When Brock made the appearance at the UFC event Dana and Lorenzo had a very good idea that Brock was going to stay with WWE. But Dana and Lorenzo both like Brock and were willing to work with him because they got a ton of press over it and Brock helped make them a TON of money including a buy rate record that looks to be safe for a very long time.

Not sure how or why WWE authorized the head butt spot at Mania. Even working it you could still see the mark left on Bryan's forehead. Not a wise move by either party.

It was more common years ago because wrestlers didn't talk about their matches before they went to the ring. So you would have someone experienced calling the match, even going so far as to tell their opponent when to work the crowd. Every experienced wrestler has done this before. Early in their Flair/Luger matches or even as late as Steamboat/Luger matches the more experienced wrestler would go so far as to tell Luger when to work the crowd, when to fire up and when to take a breather. Every wrestler has been carried and it no way is it a knock. For years it was the heels job to carry the match, after all they were the one taking the big bumps. But calling a match and carrying it are two different things. One of the best examples of someone carrying a match would be when Flair and Arn Anderson wrestled Steve McMichael and Kevin Greene. Flair calls the entire match and even carries the referee.

Frank Bonnema on Portland television would often brag that a wrestler did well in "New York." Even then everyone knew that New York was the big time. During this time Rose was working for Vince but came home for a few days to face Ric Flair in Portland and Seattle for the NWA World Title. In something of a rarity he challenged for the NWA World and WWF Titles in the same month.

#1 Brock Lesnar. Everyone else is a distant second place.