Matt Farmer

I don't see this re-introduction as anything with long term legs. FMW was successful because of Atsushi Onita's crazy charisma and how unique the stipulations were. Fans have seen way too much for a niche company to garner a following.

Austin make a much better interviewer than Jericho. These "Podcast" Network shows have "Jumped the Shark."

January 27, 1990 Hogan and Perfect sold out Cap Centre in Landover MD for an evening card. (They were in Hershey PA earlier that day). They drew 19,000 plus and a $237,000 gate. Also the January 3rd SNME Taping drew about 8,500 paid to the UTC Arena in Chattanooga.

Thanks guys

You can say the same for Sgt. Slaughter as well. Not to the same extent as Iron Sheik, but Slaughter spent the last five years or so working independents and some spots with AWA. He wasn't a big deal anywhere in the world except at high school gyms by 1990. But the combination of Slaughter, Adnan and Sheik got over enough to sell a PPV that did over 400,000 buys. There's no difference between taking a jobber like Ray Traylor, leaving him off TV a few month and bringing him in as Big Bubba Rogers then having him and Dusty set a gate record in Pittsburg. Bubba was a jobber the year before! I want to note that in 1991 Summer Slam did almost the same exact number of PPV buys as Wrestle Mania did that year.

http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-stories/101-mexico/41750-a-look-at-the-career-of-perro-aguayo-jr Here is a link for an article I wrote as a career retrospective for Perro Aguayo Jr. (hope I linked it properly)

Kris really enjoyed this article. I've must have said this a hundred times since he passed away but I'll say it again Perro Aguayo Jr was one of my favorite Luchadores. And he has been for a good 13 or 14 years. His style reminded me of the veteran Luchadores that I enjoyed so much, and he carried a charisma that very few have in todays wrestling across the board, not just Mexico. I wrote and article for the WON site that I hope you can get a chance to read, it's more of a career retrospective than anything I guess it was just my way of paying tribute to someone who has entertained me for a long time.

Some of the best trainers in the world were never top draws. In fact in many cases top guys have a hard time transferring their talents over to thing like commentary or training where the goal is to put something over besides themselves. Ric Flair was a great wrestler, does not mean he would be a good trainer. And I think he has even mentioned that before. A great wrestling trainer is able to properly train you in fundamentals, timing, execution, placement in the ring and the right and wrong ways to conduct yourself. Teaching a trainee phycology is almost too much too soon, and really should not even be attempted to a certain point. It will go over most peoples heads and they won't even get it for another 5 years or more of working consistently. Look at guys like Diablo Velasco, Stu Hart, Rip Rogers, Danny Davis and Brad Rheingans. Those guys weren't top draws but turned into very successful trainers, and in the case of Stu Hart the period where he produced a lot of great talent his trainers were journey men Japanese guys who had great training in their dojo's.

Agreed, I think the lack of information and those that know it will work against everyone in this group. It will hurt guys to a lesser extent from Mexico too.

First I gotta say this was my worst podcast appearance I think I've ever been on. Had a massive fever, and was fighting a horrible flu. I probably should have cancelled, and I apologized numerous times to both Rich and Joe, my mind was all over the place and it felt like I couldn't put a sentence together. Villano III, I've seen him live at least 2 dozen times or more. The guy is excellent, and has a great reputation from his peers as to just how good he is. He is probably better than IV & V and both of those guys are very good too. Now on to the Misioneros, I've also seen tons of their matches too. Calling them Flair and Tully is not a stretch, and you know who would agree? Negro Casas who has called them the greatest he's seen (called himself Negro due to his fandom of Negro Navarro). Villano III called them the best trios ever! That was their calling card and were well know for being great in the ring. Even to this day Negro Navarro at 60 something is considered great. (and he is). I may have said something to effect that Misioneros helped create Brazos, and honestly I could have said that but it's not accurate. Those two teams together worked with each other often on small cards which got the attention of the larger promoters. There run was not short, 7 years as the top drawing trios. In which their last major feud was with Brazos and they did excellent business. Which was really the Brazos first big extended run. Now I will tackle the popularity of the trio match. Sure there were trio matches, and trios prior to Misioneros. But once the Misioneros got hot, trios with special names and gimmicks popped up and became a predominant part of a Lucha card. I have almost complete results for 85% of El Toreo cards and similar number for EMLL's big buildings and it's proven in the results. Los Fantasticos, Los Infernales, Cadets, Termanarios etc were all influenced due to the popularity of the Misioneros. I do not want to trivialize Brazos, along with Misioneros they are 1 and 2 for top trios. Brazos had more longevity (but not on top) and Misioneros were on top during the hottest period for business in the history of Lucha Libre, I'll take Misioneros.

I think Santo suffers from the same fate that Hulk Hogan once did. He was so over, everyone on the inside knocked him because he was so over. Hey Jim Londos & Buddy Rogers get knocked a lot too. From the film I've seen Santo was as good as anyone in at the time in Mexico, and almost everything is 20 years into his career. In no way was he horrible. Remember too wrestlers from that era were not performing for a television audience. SO many fans of today do not get that, today's wrestlers are trained specifically for that purpose. Wrestling for the cameras. It's a whole different art and effects the matches and the wrestlers mannerisms. Guys in that era were there solely for the fans there live. It's as different as acting on Broadway and acting in a movie.

Stu did get a percentage (a booking fee) for both Dynamite and Davey Boy when they went to New Japan. I do not think either Bulldog knew it at the time. That was the reason for major heat when the Bulldogs signed with Baba. It cut Stu out of his booking fee. I do not believe it was much maybe $1,000 or $1,500 a week for the two of them, but when your business is not doing well that's a big chunk of change.

Getting back the original topic, a wrestler will place value on things that a fan won't. And some of those things include how smooth a wrestler is, think a Ray Stevens, Shawn Michaels or Buddy Rose. Where everything looks like it naturally flows from them. If you are their opponent you feel that too, and the difference is mind boggling. Also little things like do you find the wrestler in the right spot (not doing spots in the right place, I mean their timing). Some guys like a Flair, Funk, Steamboat or a Bockwinkel and Stevens are respected for being ring generals. That does not just mean calling a match, but here's an example. Go back and watch the WCW PPV where Flair & AA work Steve McMichael and Kevin Greene. Flair is not only calling all the spots, he is also telling the football players what to do, where to do it and how to do it. As well as lead the referee through the match. Little things stand out to a wrestler that most fans, unless they have done some training will never pick up on. One of the things that I hear from Kurt Angles peers is not only how fast he picked up the work, but how he was able to lead a match. And when a spot is possibly blown recover and move on without any issues. That is one thing I have heard as a knock towards Randy Savage. If a spot was screwed up it would take him out of his game, in today's wrestling world those mistakes would be much more visible. However during Savage's peak period most of his opponents would have been more adapt at working on the fly. A few other things the boys talk about is how clumsy or reckless someone is or is not. Look some guys cannot throw a punch or a forearm or a kick without his opponent worrying if he'll have to check his teeth after the match. Rob Van Dam lost a planned push in WWE because he got the rep for being shitty stiff. By that his kicks and punches looked like shit, but they were still stiff as hell. If got so bad, there was a handful of guys who no longer wanted to work with him. Hey you get hit behind the skull or right on the neck a few times by the same guy, and you will not want to work on the road with him 10 to 15 times a month. If you have been in the ring you'll know the difference between good stiff, and bad stiff. Some guys that work snug like a Fit Finley are awesome! You will fell everything, nothing will hurt (or be hurt) and everything looks good.

I have read from Dynamite Kid, that Stu told him he was the biggest draw in Stampede. But I've never heard Stu directly make that claim. I don't see how Dynamite was as big of a draw as Abdullah the Butcher or Mongolian Stomper. Was always under the impression, including when reading stories from the children talking about their parents financial situations that the 60's business was good and Stu was buying a bunch of property, cars, chandeliers etc. Don't think the Harts ever got to that point again.

Enjoy your rundowns too. These are most of the podcasts I listen to as well, though I do skip some if I'm not interested in the guest or if the guest has made the rounds a lot.

He did a few gimmicks as late as 92'. But he only had a handful of matches up to that point, and would work occasional spot showsin the northwest for Don or his promotion in Vancouver.

Mil Mascaras Gory Guerrero Perro Aguayo El Solitario Cavernario Galindo Bobby Bonales Cien Caras Mascara Ano 2000 Universo 2000 Atlantis Angel Blanco Angel Blanco Jr Tarzan Lopez Rolando Vera Rito Romero Rayo de Jalisco Rayo de Jalisco Jr Emilio Charles Emilio Charles Jr Ringo Mendoza Cachorro Mendoza Mano Negra El Dandy Hiro Matsuda Alfonso Dantes El Santanico Abismo Negro El Solar I El Solar II Shocker Oro El Supremo Vic Amezuca Enrique Vera Franco Colombo El Gladiator El Hijo del Gladiator Zorro Cesar Dantes Javier Cruz Americo Rocco Gran Markus Jr Arkangel de la Muerta Alberto Munoz Sangre India Mr. Aguila Apollo India Cesar Curiel Gran Cochisse Espectro Jr El Texano Tony Salazar Black Terry Mosco de la Merced Black Man Bestia Salvaje Just a huge list of Hall of Famers and so many excellent workers it's no wonder Velasco is a Hall of Famer for being a trainer!

One of the most prolific trainers of course was Diablo Velasco out of Guadalajara Mexico. I wrote out a list I think on WCMB and it's massive, lemme see if I can find it.

Hito & Sakurada should get credit for most of the guys that came out of the dungeon from the late 70's through the 80's. Bret and Owen were both "trained" by Hito. But really he showed them how to bump, and they learned on the job. Stu broke guys in out of almost necessity, guys were not breaking down his door to come work for him. Most promoters didn't want to break in guys, and hated to break in local guys. In most occasions they would be kept low on the card or sent away unless they were an amateur star, or football player.

Stu did not train Abby, Bad News, Davey Boy, Hase or Liger. The Japanese boys all worked Stampede for seasoning. Liger was already a Junior star before coming to North America. Abby was trained by Burt Ruby & Gino Brito. Bad News was trained in NJPW dojo. Davey Boy was trained in England and wrestled for years before coming to NA. Funks did not train Tenryu or Misawa. They were both Japanese young boys. In fact every Japanese boy on the list were trained in a Japanese dojo except Jumbo Tsuruta due to a misunderstanding. When he arrived the Funks assumed he was trained so booked him in a match days after arriving. So he has his 1st match with little to no training. Kevin Von Erich was trained by Paul Perschmann (Buddy Rose) and had his first match with him.

I wonder how many people simply asked their CC companies to stop payment? I can't imagine anyone being *that* dissatisfied with the Network already, to take that kind of action. But... Back in the old "900" number days this was a major issue, people would run up charges and simply not pay them. The local phone companies in most cases didn't enforce payment because we they didn't want to lose companies. I had a few friends than ran 900 numbers for their businesses and it was a huge lose. This may be comparible to WWE's problems today, the bill is not tied to your other bills so no one is accountable. I have a friedn that subscribes, and he is disabled so he is on a fixed income. He got a Visa cash card from a check cash place and and uses that, nothing ties that money to anything. He puts money on it to use for online purchases etc. It could be an issue due to WWE's lower economic audience.

Agreed. Pro-wrestling isn't music (hell, not even pop-music), pro-wrestling isn't litterature, pro-wrestling isn't cinema, pro-wrestling isn't painting. Pro-wrestling doesn't express anything. It's not an art. At best it's a craft industry, and some great workers are terrific craftsmen. Pro wrestling is the very definition of art. It's along the same lines as literature, movies, TV, etc. It expresses emotion, creates an engaging relationship with the viewer, tells a story, etc. Those are all facets of art, and wrestling is a tremendous form of performance art. Professional wrestling has been called art, but you can put the label art on anything. The skills required to convice people to purchase your product can be called art sure. But the goal of wrestling is not, nor should it be to present the coolest looking highspots. It's goal at the rarest level is to draw revenue. Compare it to literature or movies or heck event ballet if you want, but their goal may not be same. If your purpose of writing a book is soley to generate revenue, than that is a fair comparison. Unfortunately modern age fans, and thus modern day people involved in the industry have lost sight of the origins of this industry. Even the most successful promoter ever, Vince McMahon will tell you publicly "we put smile on faces" but when he wakes up in the morning his main focus is ways to increase revenue. Off Topic, I do want to say it's refreshing to post on a thread where people discuss topics intelligently and without resorting to juvenile tactics lol.

No what draws is not subjective, either it does or it does not. Now there are different levels of draws and different ways about determining the level, but at the end of the day something either is or it's not. You can argue what brings in revenue, is it the brand or the attractions or the event or even how it is presented yes. But you can easily determine if something is or is not successful. The best professional wrestler in the world is John Cena, and he has been for the last decade almost. That is a fact, it's not subjective because the role of a professional wrestler is to generate the most amount of revenue so that person can be paid the highest income. The business we watch was designed soley for the purpose of seperating the marks (us the fans) from their money and putting it into their own pockets. We can attempt to muddy the waters and proclaim it to be art, yet in it's similist form that is what the industry is all about.

In my opinion it is vastly underrated by the IWC. Especially in the 5 or 6 years where it seems eveyone has a hard on for "work rate". Drawing money is the foundation for what professional wrestling is all about. In years past if you were to over hear shoot discussions among wrestlers, every conversation regarding wrestling would lead to weather something drew or not. During this discussion they usually would not ask about the number of people, but what was in the gate. Everything else in the business is secondary. Of course businesses change, but the goal is still the same and that is to generate money. This generation of "wrestlers" have lost site of that goal, even in the indy world. These self proclaimed promoters seem more interested in having good shows, when their priority should be increasing their revenue. Everything else in wrestling is subjective. We all have different ideas on what is good or bad, but one thing that is not subjective is generating income. And everything leads back to one goal, revenue.

Very over exposed, been on national tv too long. And suffers from being booked poorly at times, like Triple H and John Cena. With that said Randy Orton is one of the top 10 best workers in the business today. A true ring general in an industry that has so few of them today. I get tired of him along with everyone else, then I see how he performed at Mania and remembered just how good he is. He will be one of those guys who will be appreciated more when he is not on TV every week.