Matt Farmer
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I was talking with Matt Borne a few weeks before he passed away and we got to talking about Buzz Sawyer. Now Matt was a tough guy, and has beat up numerous wrestlers himself and not one to back down from a fight. He admitted that he and Buzz had a rep for being tough guys and even working rough with some guys. But Buzz and Matt did not always get along and the two got into a couple fights. The most well known was a fight the two had on the side of the highway. Matt said Buzz was one of the toughest guys he ever met, and said that Buzz showed him how tough he was! Don Jardine was also known as a tough guy, including beating up Stan Stasiak severly once. Word has it that if Peter Maivia & Gary Hart didn't pull him off he would have killed him.
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Testosterone has been used by many celebrities as an anti-aging drug too. It's much easier to eat healty now than it was 20 years ago, and knowledge of diets and body chemistry have increased in everyday people.
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No of course not, I remember working a tour with a now dead wrestler from Calgary. He ran in the same circles as the other Calgary boys, got his gimmicks from the same crew etc. I asked him about his cycle, as in what how often etc. He told me point blank that he has been on a cycle almost non stop for 15 years. And that was common with his crew! A guy like Chris Benoit or Eddy Guerrero probably didn't go more than a month or two without cycling something. TV didn't do him justice for how thick both men were due to their constant use. Not to mention to what amounts they were stacking! If a doctor for instance was to perscribe you testosterone, which I took for a short period due to a major back injury. You were injected with one or two CC's of test once every 6 or so days for 10 or twelve weeks. Yet many wrestlers or bodybuilders are taking 10 times that amount and stack Winstrol, Deca or what ever else they want to use. The cycle of test I described would cost ya maybe $150. And with that you will see increases in your lifts and notice it. Most of these guys on the top end were spending thousands of dollars a month! I cannot imagine ingesting that much. Just that extra muscle on your frame could cause health issues alone. It's definitely the over abuse of the drugs that kill you, not the use alone.
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Usage is definitely down, but once again the biggest issue was not steroids it was pain killers. For a guy to go on a cycle or two once a year isn't going to have a major effect on their health. Smoking cigarettes are more dangerous than an occasional cycles is going to have on you anyways. It's the massive use that causes long term health issues.
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Triple H and Batista both look a good 30lbs smaller than at their peaks. Hunter looked much smaller in his shoulders and I would doubt he was on anything or much of anything. As long as guys aren't abusing them like many were in the past I could care less if everyone does a cycle or two a year. Heck if used in small doses it's much safer than smoking or dipping.
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Generally you work faster for television than you would for a live audience. For a live audience you work for the ups and downs of the audience and should pace it accordingly.
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I don't doubt he was drinking either, but if you listen to his podcast his speaking voice has changed and at times appears to lose his train of thought. And he does slur his words to some degree.
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After the beating he took, who knows if Taker plans to wrestle again. He looked like he dropped a bunch of weight and than he had not worked out in the last year. You can just see how banged up and almost fragile he looks, I can see this being his Steve Austin swan song.
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I am too John, it probably boils down to how long we have been following the business. Being a pessimist is something he need to have to follow the business end lf the industry because everythings a work. That's how Vince's mind works so I'm pessimistic about numbers the company reveals publicly. if the 600,000k number is accurate I would be extremely happy if I was WWE. I've always felt a subscription service like this has a ceiling on it, and I think that ceiling is lower than WWE thinks.
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I remember hearing on NWA Power Hour that Kerry was coming in. Was glad to see Orndorff back, he was having good matches on independents before he came in.
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The whole Summer Rae thing is so over produced, I know it's a work but she's comes across as just a horrible actress. IF and it's a big IF she was really being such a bitch, Fandango would have put the kibosh on it and her bags thrown out of the lockeroom. Hell Natty would have kicked her out. One thing with WWE you can't get away with being an ass unless your a star.
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Yea it was usually referred to as an undercard PO. They go back to the 50's as far I as I know, it was just a method to give the boys not booked or out with an injury something.
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In the few years of business running the ECW Arena was no longer profitable. I do believe that Paul Heyman made money off ECW, there was a saying that Paul had money stuffed under his matress.
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Yes that was me lol, I can't remember where I got that date from either? I listened closely to the commentary but didn't hear, but my Spanish is limited. Flair usually worked more than one date for Carlos when he came in too.
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I think he also made reference to that amount regarding Survivor Series too. Which did about 315,000 buys, one of their lower ppv numbers for that era. Summerslam 88' did around 525,000 which was just shy of what Wrestlemania IV did, so that event was a huge success!
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Also in wrestling talk, the boys will often continue to call a wrestler his gimmick name even if they no longer use it. Even the office would continue the practice privately. As for the Bulldogs, I would bet they were paid on a higher percentage (by Vince) because they were in demand and could get work elsewhere. Also don't be so confident that the numbers he put in his book are completely accurate. He is a wrestler and rounding up is common.
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Was looking at a couple items. The above Dory & Flair vs Colon & Abby match is listed on July 9, 1985, but I don't think that's correct (I may be wrong) but that is a Tuesday, and Hiram Bithorn was usually on Saturdays. Did they run any cards at Hiram Bithorn during the week?
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Unless this is something that was different back then, the referees are independent contractor talent as referees and salaried employees with benefits as ring crew. The pay sheet should only reflect their referee pay then, shouldn't it? Yes but they were also bonused on big shows too, almost similar to how talent is paid today. Prior to that ref's were paid on the house just like the boys were.
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I don't think they are now (as in the last 15 years or so) because they have a guaranteed contract. Remember back then they were only paid if they were on the road. Those were undercard payoffs, which were small paydays because the boys were on the road with the crew but not on that show for whateve reason. They didn't want to punish people because they weren't on the show so they would give them something. In a lot of promotions if someone was out hurt, the promoter would take say $50 out of the gate for every house show and set it aside for the injured wrestler. It sure wasn't what they would have made if on the road, but it was something. I kmow Bill Watts, Crockett, Owen, and McMahon would so this.
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Another thing he mentioned was a group of wrestlers there backstage in case of a no show or whatever. A few of them like Jake and Undertaker were there to film vignettes. And it was common on big ppv cards to have underneath pay for guys who were on the road but not booked for the PPV. For instance it listed Duggan and Snuka, I don't recall why they weren't booked, they may have been at home, or hurt or on the road just not booked for the PPV. It was common to give those guys undercard paydays (remember PPV checks take 3 months to get) as a way of not punishing them for missing it. He made a big deal about the Nasty Boys making more than Bret Hart, when in fact they were paid the same $17,500. Knobbs & Saggs just took a $200 draw so they could tear it up at the bar! He was also confused with referee pay, well as most of you know referees in most cases have other duties on the road. Some of the younger refs are setting up the ring and doing other labor tasks. Some like Hebner had office duties, so their pay could reflect that. Plus the top refs, reffed the more important matches and often had more to do. I have heard of ref's getting bonused for taking a important bump too. The author also made mention of the announcers and local talent. The announcers were usually paid a weekly salary, so they weren't bonused the same. And the locals if there were any, were paid cash. They weren't cops because that was filmed I believe the day before or that afternoon prior to the show.
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John hit the nail on the head, it's bad booking or bad workers. In WWE it's needed because matches are worked the same way. Look at last years Mania with Punk/Taker, followed by Hunter/Brock. The Brock match wasn't bad but it was laid out the same as the previous match. Same attempt at near falls, etc. WWE main event wrestlers all work the same so it hurts them on these shows. Brock should have done his best Stan Hansen imitation and attacked, or really Triple H should have attacked Brock in the aisle and it should have been a straight fast paced 10 minute brawl all around the ring. It needed to be just the opposite of the Punk/Taker match.
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That's correct, all offices allowed the boys to take draws. Which was an advance against their paycheck. There's the famous story of Flair taking the biggest draw in company history while they were in England for Summer Slam. Arnold Skalaand was the agent he took it from. Back in the day, when you went to get paid one of the agents or random oldtimers were usually playing cards with a brief case with cash in it. The first time I worked for them I was paid by Killer Kowalski & Luke Williams was playing cards with him. As I got paid a few of the contract guys were there to get draws, so they could pay their rental car or hotel or whatever. Usually it was a couple hundred bucks. And they would write down the amount and it would get subtracted from their check. I was there just to do jobs, so we could hand in expenses since we were on the road with them for three days. They would pay your gas (we would work the receipts and get a little extra), and would cover your hotel if you had a receipt. If the town was off the beaten path they would cover your airfare. That brief case probably had $20,000 to $30,000 dollars in it.
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Feeding is as simple as putting your body in a position to receive offense. If you are crawling up the ropes you "give" them your back to hit. In the original question the word "base" was used. A good base is simply someone who is great at taking a spot. Think Psicosis when he worked Rey Misterio Jr, it's actually a term used mostly for lucha style spots.
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Funny you brought up the rope running. A lot of the really smooth workers in that era took a lot of pride in hitting the ropes. Buddy would tell people to watch a wrestlers foot work to see if they had the right timing. It meant more in a time when spots were called on the fly. Buddy had an ongoing open challenge in the Portland territory in a foot race. He was a naturally good athlete and was very fast, out of all the challenges I believe he only lost once, and I can't recall who it was. But he would race a ton of guys in the territory. We all know the story of him racing the Portland Winterhawks Semi professional hockey team. It's out there in the tape trading universe too.
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Just started reading this thread from the beginning and made it to page 9. I plan on reading the rest soon, I'm really enjoying it a lot and after nearly every post I find myself wanting to contribute little pieces of info. Buddy was a friend who I grew up watching. The first live show I attended the main event was Rose versus Mike Miller and when I first broke in almost 10 years to month later I refereed and the main was Buddy vs Mike Miller. Buddy loved that story and when he introduced me to people he wanted me to repeat it. I've had the chance to wrestle Buddy, be managed by Buddy and travel with him. I've actually sat with Buddy in my living room and watched a bunch of these matches. It was awesome sitting with him as he critiqued different things, and it's funny the things that caught his attention. For instance someone compared him with Flair and I remember once Buddy saying how he hated that when Flair took a backslide he wouldn't kick his legs. Hope you guys continue to post about Buddy's matches here.