MFoy

Albert Ching from CBR.com joined me on this latest episode to count down the top stars in WWE history who have never held that company's world championships. Thanks! http://www.thecubsfan.com/2016/02/23/list-em-and-learn-episode-14-tooooo-sweeeeeetened/

I remember in 04 when Vince got some weird idea that babyfaces couldn't be from Canada, so they started introducing Jericho as being from Manhassat, NY, and Benoit as being from Atlanta, GA.

You can say what you want about Reigns as a worker in the ring, but I don't think there's been a WWE top guy whose promos have been worse than his in many, many years. Maybe it's not his fault, but I still find it to be true. Reigns is not an all-around entertaining persona the way WWE top stars have historically been. There's a lot about the way he's portrayed that's very dull. Edit: And by top guy, I should have said "ace." Obviously there have been a lot of guys near the top who have been lousy promos.

The Ultimate Warrior, although I guess his promos were effective in their way.

Funnily enough, I was at both of these matches live and at the time, the McGuinness match in Philly felt more self-conscious. Not that the work wasn't great, but it was an unannounced match that was taped for PPV (the rest of that particular card was not taped for PPV). As soon as the crowd found out that it would be on PPV, they completely changed their tone, and all of the heat felt like an act, at least at the beginning of the match. By the end they were genuinely into it. However, McGuinness and Danielson hadn't had any singles matches in about 9 or 10 months, so this didn't feel like a continuation of their feud. It felt kind of tacked on, for the purposes of having a great PPV singles match between the company's two most popular stars at the time. I want to be clear; I love the match, I just don't think it was as organic as it might seem today. The KENTA match, on the other hand, followed a McGuinness vs. Marufuji match that completely wore out the crowd, and Danielson and KENTA had to work to get them back to the level of intensity they eventually got up to. The way they paced it was perfect and necessary for the audience they were wrestling in front of.

I remember the one with Shamrock as ref. Which promotion had the Steamboat one?

I wouldn't put it at number one, but I do want to mention Jericho beating Triple H for the WWF title in the opening segment of Raw, before it was quickly overturned. Mankind beating the Rock for the title, and the moment in that match when Austin's music hits stands out too.

Sorry if this is in bad form, but I feel like this is a good time to bump this because we really went in-depth on Danielson's career.

I'm not sure if this should go in the WWE section, but I feel like it deserves its own thread at the very least... https://twitter.com/WWEDanielBryan/status/696757295879819264

I just finished a new episode of List Em and Learn with Justin Shapiro where we list our top 10 favorite Royal Rumble matches. Check it out if that holds any interest for you. http://www.thecubsfan.com/2016/01/31/list-em-and-learn-episode-13-well-then/

When I was 14 in 1997-98, I thought DX was super cool and the t-shirt was the only wrestling shirt I wasn't embarrassed to buy or wear to high school (I bought it at the MSG house show the week before WM 14, and I did get made fun of a little bit when I wore it to school). That said, by the end of that year I had already started to think they were kind of lame.

Meltzee seems to think it's because of the olympic lifts they have the guys doing.

Seems implausible that after all of Bryan's injuries, they'd feel confident enough in his health to put him over in the Rumble and make him the champion going into Wrestlemania before he's taken one bump.

Hey all, I recorded a new years episode of List Em and Learn with Justin Shapiro and Joe Gagne. We each run down our lists for the top 10 years in WWE history. Thanks! http://www.thecubsfan.com/2016/01/02/list-em-and-learn-episode-12-yearly-beloved/

When there's a major competing company using their old stars and doing better business than them. So never.

Hooray!

That spot in the 05 Rumble where everyone stopped what he was doing to beat up Hassan is one of the more embarrassing moments in Rumble history. It's just pure racism.

I'm really digging your lists, guys. I don't want to spoil mine if you haven't listened yet. I appreciate the support. For the record, my link in the op was to a wrestling-themed episode, so it's not my fault this thread got off-topic, haha. That said, I wholeheartedly enjoy this tangent.

Most of the audience who doesn't post on wrestling boards, I think, like Roman at this point, but yeah, this is one of the only places where I've seen that match acknowledged for being as good as it was. Most other places, Roman Reigns matches devolve into contests for whoever can post that Roman is gassed first. What a shitty time for "smart" fans that they mistake selling for being gassed because they think that the idiots who work 100 miles an hour and never stay down for more than 5 seconds before they get to their next move are the "good workers." Didn't that used to be MORE true than it is now? Seems like the notion of a good worker is far more up for discussion than it was in "smart" circles 15-20 years ago.

Hey everyone. I just finished a new episode of List Em and Learn. The topic is top 10 things that Justin Shapiro and I are most thankful for in wrestling. If you end up listening, let me know what you think. Thanks. Happy Thanksgiving! http://www.thecubsfan.com/2015/11/26/list-em-and-learn-episode-11-stackable/

Right, that was my point. Dave doesn't realize that "dated" references actually can make something seem more hip.

I guess I should have said that Dave is obsessed with wrestling seeming hip and current. I'm a fan of his, but hip has never been a word I'd have used to describe him personally.

It's such a weird thing because lots of pop culture uses nostalgia and "dated" references to great effect. Dave just seems obsessed with being hip and current, to the point that he doesn't realize that using old references can actually be hip and current.

Would we give Bischoff credit for making a guy like Rey Mysterio Jr. a star in the US? ECW used him first, yes, and Heyman should get a good amount of credit too, and AAA did well for a while in SoCal, but as far as major promoters with national exposure, how many of them would have considered giving Rey any sort of a push prior to his WCW debut? Would McMahon ever have considered it had Rey not been successful in WCW first? Obviously this is about more than just Rey. He made a variety of styles part of the flavor of WCW during its boom period in a way that the WWF never did, and really still hasn't.

While I wouldn't vote for Bischoff, it seems unfair to dismiss him as a short term success without taking his long term influence into account.