CarpetCrawler

WWF New York was literally Shotgun Saturday Night but with commentary geared towards the New York audience, for the purpose of airing in New York markets. I remember it airing on TV-55 over here in New York. The show even featured Vince Russo on commentary at one point, but I don't remember if it was him or him doing his Vic Venom thing.

The match itself only ever aired on home video. The title change was announced in a Gene Okerlund update but I don't even recall footage airing until the home video release, not even on Prime Time.

Yup. He had about two or three matches on TV and then disappeared again. Still had Slick as his manager. Another one I just remembered, Jim Neidhart as a Wrestling Challenge commentator along with Monsoon and Heenan in 1991. What was the story behind that? Was he injured so they gave him something to do? And Hillbilly Jim had a brief run as a studio host/commentator around the same time as well. And then there was Sean Mooney hosting Wrestling Spotlight as his "twin brother" Ian Mooney for no reason whatsoever.

I could watch those 1980s WWF arena shows with Gorilla Monsoon and Gene Okerlund shooting the shit on commentary all day. Kevin Sullivan genuinely fucking terrified me as a kid. I used to actively avoid the TV when he would appear and have to ask my Dad if he was gone yet!!

Harvey Wippleman in 1996 with that weird angle where he was studying referees because he was fed up with their poor job, filing reports that he would send to Gorilla Monsoon. I remember the payoff being that he became a referee of his own and I am pretty sure the few matches he did had him calling things fairly. Then it was dropped without a word. And speaking of referees, Jacqueline as a referee for the WWE in mid-2000s was another thing that I totally forgot until I was thinking about Wippleman. What was the story there?

no way do i agree with the latter, especially. demolition were already on the way down the card - jobbing the tag titles clean was a big sign. had to get whatever value left from them at that point. Yeah, I'm pretty sure around when the Warriors had entered the WWF, Ax was already on his way out anyway, and Smash and Crush as Demolition never really interested anyone all that much. I just remember the six man Demolition matches where Ax was barely involved. And then he was eliminated like two minutes in at Survivor Series '90.

actually, they were money inc.'s main rivals. that feud was the focal point of their survivor series match, and i suspect that would've been the tag title match at mania were it not for hogan coming back. Yup, IIRC on one of the early RAW episodes the story was that the Nasties gave Hogan and Beefcake permission to face Money Inc. at Wrestlemania instead of them. Can't believe I forgot that one!! That was during the brief comeback of Beefcake with the goofy mask. Still blows my mind that Beefcake even had a match on RAW during that timeframe. Speaking of Beefcake and forgotten periods of wrestling, there's also his brief run in 1991 where he went out in a mask and just headbutted people after squash matches. How long did that last? I just remember Bobby Heenan being confused on commentary at Beefcake headbutting Earthquake out of the ring.

The Nasty Boys turning babyface for the WWF in 1992. It still shocks me that after that face turn (which took place around Survivor Series '92), they still appeared on WWF TV until right before King of the Ring '93. I don't think they did anything at all for those six+ months. Also that goofy and very brief comeback for The Bushwhackers in 1996 when the WWF was desperate for tag teams. Nick Bockwinkel's hilarious and extremely pedestrian run as a WWF commentator in 1987.

Really? That's tremendous. I had always assumed he returned to his tie-dye stuff when he moved on.

"Superstar" Billy Graham's kung fu master gimmick that he had very briefly in the WWF in 1983 immediately comes to mind. What a completely strange period of time that was, I often forget it even existed. And did it ever lead to that many matches on TV?

When I saw this on TMZ I lost all respect for him. What is the story behind this? The Hogan Knows Best era of his life is a blur for me. I didn't even know his son was in a car wreck.

So I've never seen early episodes of Monday Night RAW and am not very familiar with the 1993-95 era of WWF in general so I've been watching each RAW and PPV from that timeframe. Gorilla's commentary on the WWF monthly arena shows in the mid-80s is awesome and I freely admit I could watch Monsoon and Okerlund/Hayes shoot the shit over an awful 20 minute draw with SD Jones any day of the week. The casual conversational style Monsoon has on these shows is really relaxing and really reminds me of watching with a friend who also watches wrestling. On these shows Monsoon makes you feel like you're right there with him. I know I'm in the minority in that regard though. That being said, I'm up to the period in 1994 before Jim Ross returns where Monsoon does commentary again because Vince is busy with the trials and man this is sad to watch and listen to. He's basically become a caricature of himself, not knowing the product that well and shouting over promos while overusing the cliche stuff that made him charming in the 80s. However in 1994 it just makes everything he calls a chore to listen to. Savage is his color guy and Savage is just as bad (if not worse. I swear up and down he was, to put it bluntly, verbally shitposting in the hopes that Vince would get fed up and fire him. It's unbelievable how bad Savage is in the booth in 1994. He just doesn't want to be there anymore) and is really no help whatsoever. This combined with the poor in-ring product at the time (I've seen enough Kwang squash matches for one lifetime) just makes 1994 RAW a slog to get through. There's one point where even Savage is clowning on Monsoon's awful commentary; Monsoon makes a comment during a Nikolai Volkoff/1-2-3 Kid match in which the winner gets a title shot against Bret on a future RAW along the lines of, "you know, it makes me wonder if Ted Dibiase didn't buy Nikolai this title shot matchup" and a totally exasperated Randy Savage goes "gee, I wonder what gave you that idea, Gorilla?" which Monsoon completely no-sells and then he goes silent for a few seconds. I really cannot wait for Jim Ross to come back, because man this is hard to listen to, and I really love Gorilla's work and will defend it usually. I dunno if it's him getting older and giving less of a shit about the product or what. I imagine losing Heenan didn't help. Other than Johnny Polo I don't think Gorilla was good with anybody after Bobby left. Polo does a pretty good job (and by all accounts Raven has said in shoots that both him and Gorilla liked working with each other) though, which makes me wish we got more out of the Monsoon/Polo tandem than we got. Once Ross returns for good in 1995 or so and Monsoon gets paired with him in a color commentary role he's a lot more tolerable, but what probably helps that is that Ross and Monsoon both liked each other. oh god, yes. I always felt like I was alone in that regard, and this goes back to Monsoon. I love Jesse but there were times with McMahon where he'd be completely insufferable and just walk all over Vince, and Vince is just so bad at rebuttal stuff at this timeframe that Ventura just dominated the broadcast and sometimes got himself over more than the guys in the ring (love Heenan too but this was a habit of his as well). It's not as bad on Superstars (but that's not to say it's great), but on SNME it definitely can be a major detriment to the show at times. Monsoon would actually trade barbs with Jesse and Jesse is a MUCH better guy in the broadcast booth when he has someone that can keep up with him, which is why Monsoon and Ventura are a far, far better team to me than McMahon and Ventura.

it was wrestlecrap, i distinctly remember this somehow also if anything tenta got LESS hate back in the day than most fat guys, though still a lot obv. i think the japan cred helped him with a small section of the smart fanbase Yup, it was Wrestlecrap. I distinctly remember this because this was where I first learned that the "snake" in Jake's bag when 'Quake crushed it was "panty hose stuffed with hamburger meat".

I've heard it mentioned that the Adorable gimmick was what was in the suitcase, but to be honest that always seemed like reconning since I've never really seen anything from the timeframe that suggests that was the deal. I'm thinking it was retconning as well, because by June/July of 1985 he had the briefcase and the "Adorable" gimmick doesn't occur until January 1986 or so. Random tidbit from the George Steele timeline interview with Sean Oliver: according to him the "Adorable" gimmick was Adrian's idea, and he was bragging to Steele about how much heel heat he'd get. Huh. EDIT. RE: Johnny Sorrow. I figured the "Relax" bit had to be a nod to the song/T-shirt since that shirt was certainly a phenomenon a few years beforehand. Still, the timeframe just doesn't add up to me. Especially since conventional wisdom before the Steele shoot was that the gimmick was "punishment" for Adonis due to Vince feeling he was a slob. Even for a slow moving WWF of the time if the briefcase was always intended to be a reference to his "Adorable" gimmick that's a pretty slow burn.

Just what the heck did "Relax with Trudi" mean anyway? That was the message displayed on Adrian Adonis' briefcase for a decently lengthy period of time after his team with Dick Murdoch was broken up but before he turned into "Adorable" Adrian Adonis. He had it with both Jimmy Hart and Bobby Heenan, and we never really got a good explanation from anyone over what it meant. People figured it had something to do with his gimmick transformation but it was definitely around for at least 5-6 months before he switched gimmicks, unless the "Adorable" gimmick was really supposed to be a slow turn transformation. Did we ever get an explanation, whether down the road or later on through Meltzer or something? I've been watching 1985 WWF lately and whenever Adonis shows up he always has it around so it's been making me curious.

This. The only guy to come close as a good color man foil for Monsoon is Johnny Polo. I liked Monsoon and Stan Lane but Lane gave Gorilla nothing comedic to work with. But the entire timeframe before Lawler finally returns isn't that great commentary-wise. Dibiase was a step in the right direction but even he wasn't that good. That is pretty depressing, yeah.

Howdy everybody!! I've known about this board for a few years now and have lurked it on and off since about 2010/2011. I registered for an account awhile back but I was having a hard time getting it authenticated so it was deleted. Decided to register again since it's a little easier now. I've had wrestling in my blood all my life, I grew up in New York and my Dad was a big fan so from the getgo I knew that it was pre-determined and that the lead announcer for so many of the shows for the WWF was also in-fact the owner of the company. I stopped watching the new stuff regularly in 2003/2004 due to a distaste for it. While I've had spurts where I pay attention for brief periods of time (Bray Wyatt has kept my attention in the past few months, but none of the rest of the product) nothing has interested me enough to make me want to care anymore to follow regularly. Any really good matches or angles that happen in recent times I'll just go out of my way to watch after it's happened!! Old stuff I watch at a pretty decent rate though. I'm a big fan of pop culture which probably helps. Big on video games and television as well. Love the 8-bit era of gaming; proud owner of both an NES and a Famicom!! I'm also starting to partake in video game speedrunning. Probably will mostly be lurking, but I look forward to interacting with you all.