BigBadMick

Steve Keirn took a dump in his crown at Rumble '93, for what that's worth. Bret cranked in the sharpshooter nice and tight at SummerSlam '93 at a receipt from a stiff shot earlier. Kevin Kelly described him as very insincere and phoney on a podcast. Jake Roberts complained that he threw real alcohol at him in an angle when a substitution would have worked fine (I know, it's Jake, but still....). When questioned on the Jake dvd, Lawler didn't even pretend to be apologetic.

I looked through it and got the impresssion it's geared more towards older US fans rather than Japanese tape-seeking hardcores. Oh well- I suppose it is a bigger market though.

Anyone else read it? I'm about 200 pages in, really enjoying it so far. One thing I found absolutely hilarious - The book starts as you might expect. A couple of forwards (Terry Funk, Pete Roberts), then his early life, childhood, football career. Then, 120 of so pages in, he casually says at age 22 in spring of 1972 he had to make a career move and that his wife took a job as a secretary. That's the first mention of her in the book. And, sure enough, I'm 200 pages in now and she hasn't popped up again. Anyway, as I said, I'm enjoying it so far, and the e-book version I have is about 1,200 pages (large font) so hoping for more of the same to come.

.....and I watched this one tonight. Very good, but I agree with some of the complaints about the finish and the fact that these 2 out of 3 falls matches in mid 92 seemed to go long just for the sake of going long. It's a testament to them that they kept in interesting throughout.

Parv, there's a Windham v Arn match from late '87 I thought was phenomenal. Looking at the Horseman set listings, I think it's Sep 12th. Might be worth a look for comparison. EDIT: Ok, upon rewatch, phenomenal was overstating it a bit. Still, very good match. Both worked hard before a very vocal crowd.

Really good listen here lads. I'd gone through a WCW 1991 tv binge watch last year and all these matches had come up. And Chad - keep making these podcasts and I'll keep listening. Hope you do get a better, more regular output for 1992

Another thing - Lesnar/Angle Iron man match. That bad, huh? I haven't watched it in years, but remember enjoying it as all-action back then. Also, does Angle get the blame for that? His standing from back then seems to have fallen badly, but I hear no such re-evaluation of Lesnar's 2002-04.....

Funny thing though, when the idea of a conversation with Flair came up, he's one of the last wrestlers I can imagine giving satisfactory answers to a PWO-style analysis of match structure, psychology etc. You'd get a bunch of bullsh*t about working 365 days a year and whatever comes off the top of his head that day. I remember Foley saying in a shoot (in response to the whole Foley-flair books feud in 2004) that he doesn't think Flair's prone to reflecting on his career and contemplation. I tend to agree.

Agreed.

Spring to early autumn 2009 - there was talk of a 2nd 'Smackdown 6' with Jericho, Edge, Hardy, Mysterio, Morrison and Punk. Edge disappeared in early summer, but it seemed like every week had great combinations of these guys in tags and singles.

'2006 just for the DX/McMahons promos and stuff cos they were well funny when they wrote I Love c*cks on screen when Vince did his promo and DX dressed as the McMahons and changing the Mic. ' Jesus, Doc.

I'd like to watch the Guerrero-Mysterio feud from 2005, even if it got a bit silly with the Dominic stuff as it concluded. Cena being universally accepted as a babyface (briefly) in late summer into autumn 2006 was good too.

I think it's because there was a much more certain direction and sense of continuity.

Also, wrestling programming isn't, and hasn't been, truly compelling must-see tv for years. Even when something interesting happens, I've been trained/resigned myself to that interest being squandered soon afterwards.

I'm thinking this is part of a bigger change to binge watching with tv. For me, it's easier to let a few months of TNA/ROH build up and then watch quickly - they're under the radar of popular discussion in podcasts. WWE has a higher profile and requires closer attention. Having said that, there's loads of evidence on the 'what would make you stop watching wwe' thread that a lot of people here are like me - very selective about their WWE watching.

I think the element of surprise was more important when there wasn't so much tv to keep up with. Also, the possibility of a surprise debut, like during the Monday night wars, is virtually nil.

A good listen. Not as keen on Rumbles as I used to be. They're usually good for a first watch but can be dull on subsequent viewings. Surprised that '08 came in as highly - don't remember much of undercard, and aside from the MSG setting being lively I didn't think the rumble was particularly good.

The explanations/analysis is first rate, don't worry about that.

Wow! Been that long since there's been any action on this thread? Thought it was worth bumping in light of last night's podcast, and his previous one with Jericho. Anyone's opinion changed on him? I've definitely softened on the guy, but maybe I'm being worked?

I think y'all were very hard on Steamboat-Austin. Not their finest hour together, but a rock solid, entertaining match all the same. Agree that Austin-HHH Feb 2001 doesn't hold up well - just a chore to get through. Chad, have Scott and Justin murdered you yet? And Bryan-Ziggler deserves a bit more love. It's a great example of Bryan walking out to a polite response and then getting himself and the match over before it's all said and done. Enjoying this series, keep 'em coming.

Yeah, I think I've given more time over to the Rumble and post-rumble discussion than I feel I should have. Time would have been better spent on something in the 80s.

Ok, 50 minutes in and I have questions. Loss, Starrcade 83 'wrestling stopped being what it was and started being what it is'. Would you pinpoint the change to that night? No big event in Texas or the Northeast prior to that? What about the first WrestleMania? Or a big event between those two dates? It sounded like it was a comment to which you've given some thought, I'd love to hear you elaborate. Agree that the match itself is really dull and a bit of a misfire. I first saw it in 1994 and my 16 year old self tried to find something to like in it. You said it's a shame if people assume that's what 1983 wrestling was like. It's also a shame if anybody thinks Flair and Race haven't put together better matches than that. Watched Sheamus-Bryan again before Christmas and agree that it's superb, and a real shame that this and other modern day greats aren't highlighted as much as they should be. Don't disagree about the general indifference to Money in the Bank, but I think 2005 was the best one.

Well, since you went ahead and took it on...... I wasn't watching either group at the time (just had a nice old auntie taping PPVs for me) but have since given the Raws the good look through. Good - Bringing in Mankind, Austin, Mero, Goldust, Vader. They weren't all necessarily immediate hits, but over time they found useful spots in the roster and contributed something positive (to say the very least). Build to Bret-Shawn was great, but it was the biggest match they had and by God did they let you know about it. Bad - Billionaire Ted. Vince lost Hogan and Savage and he just had a very hard time getting over it. Warrior. Every last moment on screen was horrible, or else went nowhere ultimately. Ahmed Johnson. He wasn't very good in the ring.

Reading Observers from '83 - '89 you get the impression the two groups were switching pole position every couple of years. Dave pointed to bringing Brody back in late '87 as proof of Baba's desperation around the time.

Something else I'm thinking about - even with the NWA in 1989, or WWF in 2000 (inarguable high points for creatively for both companies) there's still a lot of bitching and moaning going on (In Observers in 89 and on-line in 2000). It's very easy to get caught up in negativity in the present - a bit of distance from a product can enhance appreciation.