BigBadMick

I'd like to watch the Guerrero-Mysterio feud from 2005, even if it got a bit silly with the Dominic stuff as it concluded. Cena being universally accepted as a babyface (briefly) in late summer into autumn 2006 was good too.

I think it's because there was a much more certain direction and sense of continuity.

Also, wrestling programming isn't, and hasn't been, truly compelling must-see tv for years. Even when something interesting happens, I've been trained/resigned myself to that interest being squandered soon afterwards.

I'm thinking this is part of a bigger change to binge watching with tv. For me, it's easier to let a few months of TNA/ROH build up and then watch quickly - they're under the radar of popular discussion in podcasts. WWE has a higher profile and requires closer attention. Having said that, there's loads of evidence on the 'what would make you stop watching wwe' thread that a lot of people here are like me - very selective about their WWE watching.

I think the element of surprise was more important when there wasn't so much tv to keep up with. Also, the possibility of a surprise debut, like during the Monday night wars, is virtually nil.

A good listen. Not as keen on Rumbles as I used to be. They're usually good for a first watch but can be dull on subsequent viewings. Surprised that '08 came in as highly - don't remember much of undercard, and aside from the MSG setting being lively I didn't think the rumble was particularly good.

The explanations/analysis is first rate, don't worry about that.

Wow! Been that long since there's been any action on this thread? Thought it was worth bumping in light of last night's podcast, and his previous one with Jericho. Anyone's opinion changed on him? I've definitely softened on the guy, but maybe I'm being worked?

I think y'all were very hard on Steamboat-Austin. Not their finest hour together, but a rock solid, entertaining match all the same. Agree that Austin-HHH Feb 2001 doesn't hold up well - just a chore to get through. Chad, have Scott and Justin murdered you yet? And Bryan-Ziggler deserves a bit more love. It's a great example of Bryan walking out to a polite response and then getting himself and the match over before it's all said and done. Enjoying this series, keep 'em coming.

Yeah, I think I've given more time over to the Rumble and post-rumble discussion than I feel I should have. Time would have been better spent on something in the 80s.

Ok, 50 minutes in and I have questions. Loss, Starrcade 83 'wrestling stopped being what it was and started being what it is'. Would you pinpoint the change to that night? No big event in Texas or the Northeast prior to that? What about the first WrestleMania? Or a big event between those two dates? It sounded like it was a comment to which you've given some thought, I'd love to hear you elaborate. Agree that the match itself is really dull and a bit of a misfire. I first saw it in 1994 and my 16 year old self tried to find something to like in it. You said it's a shame if people assume that's what 1983 wrestling was like. It's also a shame if anybody thinks Flair and Race haven't put together better matches than that. Watched Sheamus-Bryan again before Christmas and agree that it's superb, and a real shame that this and other modern day greats aren't highlighted as much as they should be. Don't disagree about the general indifference to Money in the Bank, but I think 2005 was the best one.

Well, since you went ahead and took it on...... I wasn't watching either group at the time (just had a nice old auntie taping PPVs for me) but have since given the Raws the good look through. Good - Bringing in Mankind, Austin, Mero, Goldust, Vader. They weren't all necessarily immediate hits, but over time they found useful spots in the roster and contributed something positive (to say the very least). Build to Bret-Shawn was great, but it was the biggest match they had and by God did they let you know about it. Bad - Billionaire Ted. Vince lost Hogan and Savage and he just had a very hard time getting over it. Warrior. Every last moment on screen was horrible, or else went nowhere ultimately. Ahmed Johnson. He wasn't very good in the ring.

Reading Observers from '83 - '89 you get the impression the two groups were switching pole position every couple of years. Dave pointed to bringing Brody back in late '87 as proof of Baba's desperation around the time.

Something else I'm thinking about - even with the NWA in 1989, or WWF in 2000 (inarguable high points for creatively for both companies) there's still a lot of bitching and moaning going on (In Observers in 89 and on-line in 2000). It's very easy to get caught up in negativity in the present - a bit of distance from a product can enhance appreciation.

Dawho, I can't write much now but I'll quick say that in an ideal world good-to-great matches will take place in a well booked feud and all of it will be worth watching. However, I think good-to-great matches are also available without the support that we would all prefer. Cherrypicking these takes a lot of the heartache out of hours and hours of drivel. Maybe I'm stripping things down too much for most people's tastes?

Also, I care much more about good, decent matches (I'm not sure how to define that right now) than the entire product and storylines being up to scratch. I'm happy to get TNA matches from last year recommended to me and give them a go without getting too caught up in the wider context. I might differ from others in that respect.

Sorry Parv, I should have mentioned it was you and Will in that original conversation. 'I've said it before, the ONLY reason people watch stuff live now is to be part of the big conversation.' I'm wondering if that's true for me, because if so I don't think it's a good enough reason to keep up. Although, the only thing I was 'live' (ie, without having read spoilers first), is the PPVs. No way I'm sitting through entire Raws/Smackdowns - and I'm only checking out recommended parts.

Have a bit more time, so I'll expand on this. I had stopped watching Raw altogether after Night of Champions last year, just keeping up with the ppvs. I'd read reports and the general consensus was that it was skippable more often than not, and that was fine with me as I had other stuff to watch. Actually, the one exception was going out of my way to see Rollins v Orton. I've watched Raw since the New Year - when I say 'watched', I mean picked out around 40-50 minutes of matches/angles to breeze through. Instead, I've been going through loads of older stuff for the past 2 years - WCW ppvs and Clashes 1990-97, 80s AJPW, WWF 1990-97 and then 2002-12, Mid-South, 80s World Class. I just find it more satisfying to have a viewing project that I can go at really hard and heavy when time permits, rather than dipping in for a bit of this and that, randomly.

This has been on my mind for a good while, ever since I found this place in early 2013. I PMed Grimmas the following a week ago - 'Another really good discussion you had was on the Christmas party. I liked Will's defense of watching the current product - just cos it's not the best ever doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, and as long as you can cherrypick good matches and angles it's worth keeping an eye on it. I never watch Raw live - generally get through it in less than an hour on Tuesdays. It's an interesting topic - the benefits/disadvantages of watching live/classic footage. There's the convenience of stockpiling stuff with classics to watch at your leisure, but you're sacrificing the sense of community with modern stuff.' Speaking for myself, I lean far more on old footage nowadays. And harass Shoe with thoughts on Texas wrestling as I go along

I think Nailz had a similar deal?

Was Dusty the only wrestler in 1985-93 whose past accomplishments were acknowledged by WWF? And how was this done? They were mentioned on the last Titans podcast - I've never seem them. Something about Dusty being recognised by fans and winking to the camera???

That quite frankly is really quite shocking! Maybe no one talked about the Rumble at his work place because they AREN'T wrestling fans? I couldnt help but laugh when it said he screamed and woke his wife up. Hope he got a right telling off for that. Not everyone likes wrestling. Kids do but alot of people move on and Im not really sure how this made headline news. Sorry, doc. I should have explained that this is a spoof website, similar to The Onion.

This was sent to my facebook account. Hell, if wrestling fans can't laugh at themselves..... http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/01/26/agony-for-grown-man-as-nobody-at-work-wants-to-talk-about-royal-rumble/

Finally getting to this. Really enjoyed the comparison of Bruno and Backlund, and how it morphed into comparing Brisco to Backlund. Really good discussion there lads.

I would love it if you could do this with your AJPW series from now on Parv.