Laz

It's more because it's a no-name jobber that controlled most of the match against a top guy and we all doubt he'll be signed and pushed up the card (nor would he deserve it). As I keep saying, the whole company has a 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. And maybe Orange Cassidy would work a squash the same way. He also wasn't a top slotted contender for the World title and hasn't been pushed as a top-tier guy. That's like saying X-Pac would've shown more ass than Steve Austin in a squash match.

PRO: -Cody's dry open was epic. He gets it. -Jericho: "Do you know how expensive this jacket is?" He's a treasure. -Guevara keeps getting better and better and the kid is going to be GREAT sooner than later. Shawn Spears' sign was great, too, and he gets more entertaining the more he's allowed to show a personality. -Killer, killer match between Sammy and Darby. Vicious, violent, and never boring. The rest of the roster should really take notice on how to keep folks interested without overdoing it. Darby taking Sammy's shoe off to work the foot was brilliant, made better with Sammy selling the foot better than some ME guys can sell anything. Loved the match. Loved it. Book these two in the main by this time next year. -Weird. Matt Hardy drops the Broken bullshit and his promo gets good. Odd how a simple and straightforward "I am going to kick your ass" matters more than any gimmicky bullshit, eh? -"Technique by Taz" is something that needs to happen once a week. Putting over the arsenal of your talent? I'm on board. -Best Omega match in AEW yet because a) half of it was Kenny getting his ass kicked, b) wayyyyyy less mugging and anime buffoonery mannerisms from Omega, and c) it didn't go 30 minutes. Maybe Kenny, after so many years of his bullshit, is finally realizing that cool shit becomes cooler if it doesn't happen all the time? -Scorpio Sky's solemn interview was great and I want him to be more than he's been so far. That also means calming down on the SoCal indie MOVEZ MOVEZ MOVEZ style and doubling down on psychology and storytelling. -Great little clip of Dustin leaving the "I will retire" voicemail to Cody. -BTE episode 200 was YardTard Theater, but the ending video package of it was incredible. Find the show on YouTube and skip past the stupid match and just watch the video package. -It is absolutely impossible for MJF to cut a bad promo. "Max's rat's house" was a great location. Hangnail from gambling too much? Get well soon, MJF. Get well soon. -Dear Trampstamphawk, THIS is what a squash match is meant to look like. Signed, Wardlow. It's like Wardlow learned how to work to his strengths instead of just being another "methodical" monster. No. Be the beast that runs after you. That is way more imposing. -Brodie Lee deserves better than the Dark Order. Far, far better. -THE BUBBLY BUNCH IS EVERYTHING GREAT ABOUT AEW. THE INNER CIRCLE WILL SAVE THIS COMPANY. Get that hand sanitizer, Sammy. Get it. I hope this is what sets the stage for the inevitable Sammy/Jericho program. -Good promo package to hype Sabian/Dustin. I don't even mind the lame adult alternative soundtrack to it. CON: -I loved the match, but if Sammy and Darby have such heat with each other over things that happened 2 months ago then why have they barely interacted? It's been a promo, a run-in save, a tag match, and that 7/11 bit for Sammy's YouTube show. Very little of it on the company's primary show. 2 months, 4 interactions, only 3 of which aired on TV. Have shit happen if their hatred is so severe. This isn't unique to these two, either, it's happened with every program that hasn't involved Jericho or Cody. -Broken Matt is garbage. Broken Matt is garbage. BROKEN. MATT. IS. GARBAGE. My girlfriend, who liked the Hardy Boyz back in the day, said it best: "he's so fucking annoying." This shit wasn't even cool when it was new, but the Deletion shit was unique enough when it was new to stand out. It's been played out for years. -So, after we had that video package putting over how lethal the V-Trigger is, a no-name jobber kicks out of it? Yeah. Good booking. Really sell how heavy hitting that move is by having a guy half his size eat one and shrug it off. -JUST LET JIMMY HAVOC WORK GARBAGE BRAWLS. FUUUUUUCK. He literally made his career out of working deathmatches in Fight Club Pro, ICW, wXw, CZW, etc. Let him do a bit of the ol' ultraviolence instead of this 1988 throwback shit. Let him be the wild brawl guy, and that's why he's dangerous. This was one of those examples of how not to lay out a match so that it hides the weaknesses of its talents. At least the right guy went over. -Oh yay. Best Friends vs. Kip Sabian/Jimmy Havoc. Can't wait. -The Dark Order still sucks. Fuck this stupid gimmick. Kill it and let Brodie Lee be his own thing that doesn't involve thinly veiled shoot comments about Vince McMahon. BE BETTER. At least pace the shows better. Two squashes in a row where the big guy throws the job guy around like he's nothing is the opposite of good pacing. It hurts even more because Wardlow had the better match. -Do you know how incredibly hard it's been over the past few years to have a dull match with Dustin Rhodes? Somehow, Kip Sabian accomplished it. Cut bait. He's shit and half of your roster would've done better in that spot. I've seen better Buff Bagwell performances than what Kip is capable of. I would rather be forced to sit through 2 full hours of Kenny Omega matches than see Kip Sabian be anything but a jobber ever again. Overall, this was a better show than last week's, but these shows have had their first hours stacked and let the second hour fall off so hard since even before Revolution. This isn't live television right now. Space the good stuff out more.

Haven't watched the show yet, but Cassidy's singles debut on Dynamite was a match with PAC months ago. Probably the best PAC match in the company yet, too.

To the first point (quoted, can't knock anybody for having a favorite product), I'd argue that ROH never should've "grown" in the first place. We've already seen companies with smaller budgets hold onto their spot in the pecking order by sticking to their guns and staying true to their audience (CZW, ironically enough), and that, at least to me, is more important than having a mainstream appeal. Especially so when the company in question was birthed as the antithesis of the mainstream. WWE had wacky gimmicks, short matches full of punch/kick, and interference roll-up finishes? ROH gave us WORKRATE~ and MOVESETS~ and promised clean finishes more than not. WWE was polished and overproduced? ROH was raw (heh) and grainy. It's easy to forget, given the difference between presentation and product focus, that ROH was born in the ashes of ECW, right down to who booked it and who ran the financials/distribution in the early days. This is a key reason, IMO, why Corny's ideas on how to "grow the product" were failures, even beyond taking a beloved talent like Generico and trying to change parts that folk loved about him, beyond pushing Dan Severn being Eddie's second as though he mattered to all but the most ardent of NWA fans in the crowd. His critical points are almost always valid, sure...but you could say the same about those posited by Vince Russo, or Shane Douglas, or any other "the business left me behind" creative types. The only real difference is that Corny has seniority and a certain subset of the fan agrees with him more than not. In practice, however, his ideas on how to present a modern product have been failures for 25 years. 25. Years. As for the second point, I like to go back to a common counter-argument made by folk of my generation and the one right after. People today get offended and raise a ruckus over some pretty silly shit, sure, but that's how it's always been, and if you look at what really drove Corny's generation and regional cultures crazy - interracial relationships, same-sex relationships - over what the "sensitive" people today really loathe - bigotry - and you want to side with the former? Pal, you aren't going to have too many willing to back your case. My favorite related joke about this is when you'll hear "Archie Bunker wouldn't be allowed on TV today," and it has the easiest counter I can think of: Eric Cartman. Kids today aren't "too sensitive" or "as mentally tough" as yesteryear's because they hold different values. Not when yesteryear's kids blew a gasket over somebody dating somebody with a different skin color.

I think that turning guys off was part of the intent. Rituals and rites of passage were an easy way to see if somebody was serious about joining the club or not, and also taught some of them humility. As much as we like to look back on things like that with 2020's social awareness, we also need to remember that things like that served a purpose at the time.

True, but can you really argue that Hager/Mox needed to go half an hour when it petered out 10 minutes in? Or that Archer/Colt should've gone as long as it did?

PRO -Britt Baker's Rules of Being a Role Model was magnificent and a wonderful piece of heel business. Cutting it from the comfort of, assumingly, her own practice? That makes it all that much better. She's turned me and I couldn't be happier to have been wrong. -All the build for Mox/Hager is wonderful, treating it like a legitimate contest and amplifying how dangerous Hager is within the MMA cage... (see con #2) -Baker/Golden was quick and painless and allows Baker to get some heat back after a few losses. It gave us a good spot where Baker posed on the apron next to Cass Golden, and that's what matters most in quickie squashes: having one memorable moment. -Mike Goldberg stanning for Hager?! Man, I missed his voice. -The Bubbly Bunch was incredible, which isn't a surprise since the Inner Circle has literally been carrying these shows since forming back in October. This was a great way for Ortiz to really show off his personality without being too goofy, and Sammy is just so great. "What do you call an idiot who's been missing for weeks and likes horses? Hangman Page." This needs to be a regular thing. -Jericho promising that he and Sammy will go for the Tag belts (dubbed the Sex Gods) gives me hope. Schiavone and Jericho not knowing how to pronounce "Suge D" was funny. Sammy looks good, but I'd love for him to get a win against somebody who isn't a career VFW hall jobber. Post-match shenanigans involving Darby has been the most entertaining part of the show that wasn't a pre-tape so far. -Jericho talking trash about Orange Cassidy makes me eager to see that match. -Chuck Taylor and Kip Sabian are having the best match so far this week. It's great to see Chuck get to finally show off his personality, too, instead of Trent getting all the love. Finish was fine for what it was, but... (see con #3) -Who the fuck woke Shawn Spears up and told him to start working like he's actually worthwhile?! He's been a highlight for the past couple weeks, in the ring and in segments. -I am so ON BOARD with Mox/Hager when they're in the ring. I love working shoot elements into pro wrestling and have thought that more should have been worked in since Ki/Bryan RRC '02. This is mostly Mox, though, and the "crowd" brawling falls flat when there isn't an audience to take away from what it is: two guys walking around and fake punching each other. Back to the ring... (see con #5) -At least Mox won. I was worried they'd put the belt on Hager just to shake things up. CON -Five Finger Archer is a waste of Jake Roberts and Colt Cabana hasn't had a worthwhile match since the feud with Homicide. That was 14 years ago and one of 'Cide's weaker programs. Colt is a good promo guy and acceptable in-ring, but I don't blame any promoter who cuts bait with him. Lousy way to open the show, with a match that screams "go to the concession stand" in the other two nationally televised companies. Spending the first 20 minutes on this bullshit is further proof that the Elite aren't particularly good at booking. You don't make a dominant monster look like a monster or very dominant by having him take 20 minutes to put somebody away. -...too bad it's for Hager, who I've never once in the last 12-13 years seen a match from and said "hey, gimme more of this guy." -...Kip Sabian is mediocrity personified. Another vanilla guy who wouldn't be booked if he didn't have a decent look. That match was all Chuckie T. Stop trying to make Sabian into a star because he doesn't have it. -Justin Law. Another jobber squash. As much as I appreciated Spears in this match, I'm sick of jobber squashes on a prime time professional wrestling program. At least don't do 3-4 of them in one night. It is not 1995 anymore. Do better. -...and it becomes just another match, revealing all of Hager's "trained by WWE" weaknesses. Forget any action that happened over the last 20 minutes and start working non-believable near falls because...drama, I guess? Whatever. I've checked out of the match, which is something that's happened any time Hager has been on my TV for more than 10 minutes without Dutch Mantel involved. -Rope breaks don't belong in a No Holds Barred match. Turning to the hard cam when it's an Empty Arena match is stupid. This match did not need to go ~30 minutes and neither man can keep that length of time interesting throughout. There's a really good 15-minute brawl in here, and there's no excuse in a pre-taped match to not trim the fat. -Mox: "AEW is the hottest promotion in the world." They've also put on the weakest product of the last 7 days that I've watched (because who the fuck watches WWE?). MLW accomplished more with a garbage brawl and a roidfreak, Impact put on a better show with a collection of has-beens and never-weres. If this is what AEW, as a company, thinks will put them over the top? They are so fucked long term it's ridiculous.

Even further damning evidence to that effect, those workrate guys went to the WWF and some flirted regularly with the main event, which only furthered the divide in audience size. The issue was never "these guys do too much" or "these guys are too small," it was always "how can we use them best." This is why I will always defend HHH in 2000, as he showed so much ass that it was believable for guys like Jericho and Benoit to possibly dethrone him (and, eventually, they did). That's branching off into another topic, about cycling main stars in/out versus gearing for a larger audience, but maybe not as they tend to go hand in hand. Ensemble casts usually do better long-term than one trick ponies.

To clarify my homogenization point, the reason only certain sights/sounds go on display is because promoters/bookers find a new talent/style that gets over big, undercard talents and rookies see that's what's being booked and try to match it, and fans grow accustomed to that and expect it. Today it's a dozen false finishes and flips, yesterday it was table spots, in the mid 90s mainstream US we had chinlocks galore before the inevitable babyface comeback where they block a back body drop, etc. You need young, hungry talent to step up and change things, and promoters who are willing to take risks.

I don't see WWE folding as a whole, but I could see, with the critical success of the Boneyard and Firefly Funhouse matches (maybe "critical success" is a better way to put it), the company truly moving away from a wrestling/sports entertainment presentation and becoming more like what WMAC Masters was in the mid 90s. This would require a structural overhaul of the business model, though, and one that would meet fierce resistance from certain executives (namely ones who-uh listen to Motörhead-uh), but I can see it as a possibility.

I'd love for an official "developmental" deal to happen between MLW and AEW, because I think Court/MSL could teach the Bucks/Cody/Tony Khan a lot about basic pro wrestling booking and overall presentation, but I know it won't happen because Bauer enjoys his independence. I can't blame him, I really can't, but the company is going to have a short shelf life (again) unless some larger deals are made. I'm also being selfish, because I think Bauer/MSL would do a better job with the AEW roster than the AEW booking team is doing.

Do you mean the methods or numbers? Method-wise, I remember ordering DVDs from the website and snagging the handful of compilations released for retail. I have no idea what the numbers entail, but I'd imagine they sold more post-RF than during due to the growth of the company in general.

1. National exposure, and later global exposure, has been better than not for the business. In terms of product presentation, it forced the hands of lazier promoters and bookers to evolve in order to compete and stay relevant. This may have ended the territories as they were known, but it also gave fans a wider breadth of products to consume and talent a greater marketplace to sell themselves to. When it comes to the quality of ringwork as a whole? It's proven that flavors may be stronger in one geographic area than another, but that styles need not be confined to regions. 2. New blood, new faces, new takes on the subject. That is how all art and forms of entertainment evolve, and evolution is required. What worked 20 years ago wouldn't necessarily work now. The downside to national (and, again, global) exposure is the risk of homogenization, which occurs not due to how many eyes/ears are tuning in but, rather, from how many different sights/sounds are on display. The "three ring circus" ideal has held truest, in that the more variety offered under one tent the more likely you are to attract a wider audience. I can't speak too much on how the AJPW model did/did not work, long or short term, but I can point out that relying on one handful of talents ultimately hurt the company economically (with the exodus and formation of NOAH). With hindsight being 20/20, if Baba had sent some of his Pillars away on excursion and had allowed younger talents to grow and flourish, perhaps the exodus wouldn't have hurt the company as hard, but that's purely speculation on my own (under informed) part. 3. Kawada represents the double-edged sword of planting one's heels instead of evolving. On the one hand, he and Kobashi are my favorites of that era. Kawada's resistance to change coming from his own mastery of the style and understanding of his role is a big reason to love him, and Kobashi's emotional resonance made up for whatever shortcomings he had in the ring compared to his peers. On the other hand, Kawada's refusal to evolve did not help as the tastes of the audience changed, nor did Kobashi's willingness to sacrifice his well-being allow him a lengthier career (to say nothing of Misawa, RIP). National exposure or not, the attitude and approach are what matters, and we see it today in the west with talents like Chris Jericho, always looking for ways to stay fresh and relevant (and successfully reinventing himself every few years), and Randy Orton, who refuses to do anything but what's expected and has seen his star fade more each year. Overall, I can't see an argument against national exposure, but I also don't think that questions 2 and 3 are necessarily related to it, at least in an "A to B to C" sense. Times change, and those that keep up while holding true to themselves stay relevant while those who ignore cultural evolutions, for better or worse, get left behind.

Agreed. I've watched the last month and really enjoyed it. The format is exactly what I wish more wrestling shows had, that feel of "this is an outlaw sport" that kinda made me fall in love with the medium as a 10 year old into Street Fighter II and Bloodsport. I wish Bauer was able to retain talent for longer because the company's really hit a groove.

PRO: -Jake Roberts is still one of the best promos in the business. I may actually care about a Cody/FFDP match if Jake keeps cutting these promos. -Baker finally has a personality and is a great foil for Shida while they build her up for Nyla. Schiavone stanning for her is one of the best running gags in the company. Baker trying to convince Schiavone to tell people how good she is while Shida comes from behind? **kisses fingers** -Yep. I'm with the crowd: Jericho and Shiavone are the best commentary team so far. I'd love to hear Jericho and Excalibur for a good length of time, too. -Orange Cassidy has more screen presence by being quiet in a corner than most ever could. -The video package for Mox/Hager made me almost forget that Hager is that store brand vanilla ice cream your grandma always had in the back of the freezer. This is the kind of stuff that AEW needs more of. Less Dark Order, more serious hype packages. -Speaking of which, the Cody/Spears video wasn't as good as the Mox/Hager (well, better than the redundant second one), but Cody is so goddamn amazing when he does the "big deal" talk that I forgot how little I cared about Spears. -ME was very, very solid. Cody has a firmer grasp on how a pro wrestling match works than virtually anybody else on the roster, and Spears more than holds his own when he can work a more straightforward match. Jericho decrying Aubrey Edwards's down-the-middle calls and cheering for Spears, as well as Spears continuing the little spat with Billy Gunn, were also great. CON: -"Murderhawk" is fine. You don't need the "monster" part. I'm still not sold on Five Finger Trampstamp. There's nothing edgy about a 30-something guy in 2020 dressing like a goth nerd from 1999. Promotion is irrelevant (looking at you, Bray/oVe). -Best Friends vs. Omega/Nakazawa because they want to prove who are the better friends...this like Jericho/Kane feuding over coffee levels of stupid. It could work, theoretically, as a set up, but the delivery by everybody was so dry that you can tell they just felt like they needed to fill airtime. On a pre-recorded show. -How the shit is Yuka ranked higher than Riho, the former champion, or Baker, who's actually been on TV more than twice in as many months? I don't think these rankings are on the up and up. -Michael Nakazawa is the worst signing on the entire fucking roster. His very existence is an embarrassment to pro wrestling as a whole. He, somehow, makes me yearn for an Omega singles match. Toru Yano is a better talent. VIRGIL, WRESTLING SUPERSTAR, was a better talent. Orange Cassidy couldn't even save this shitshow. -Dark Order is garbage. Dark Order is garbage. Dark Order is garbage. -Broken Matt wasn't even good when it was new, and has led us directly to the bullshit that was the Boneyard and the Firefly Funhouse matches (yeah, they sucked, get over it). Retire already, old man. -Brodie Lee's ring gear makes Monsterhawk's look fantastic by comparison. Garbage squash, fuck off.

I'm sticking with post-1996 because my favorite stuff is still from the late 90s to the late 00s. I don't like what most wrestling has become, but there are enough signs that the pendulum is going to swing back in the region I enjoy most (at least on a cult, niche-within-a-niche sense) that I'll keep looking ahead.

I'm with Slasher on this one. The shows I've been enjoying the least are the ones where the Elite take up the bulk of the airtime and guys like Sammy, Darby, MJF, Mox, and Santana/Ortiz get shunted either off the card entirely or onto Dark. There's two full hours of airtime to utilize and they aren't utilizing it to their best as it is, so guaranteeing more of the same by putting the belt on somebody we already see enough of is counterintuitive to the long-term health of the product.

That you NEEEEEEED to put the (clearly secondary) belt on an established star. No. No you don't. There was more intrigue in the Tag belts when the Bucks were eliminated in the tournament than there have been since Page/Omega were crowned champs. I actually had to Google who the tag champs were and the TV show has only been on the air for ~6 months. I'm even less inclined to agree with that mindset when all but two of the established stars are part owners of the company.

The problem with that logic is Orange Cassidy gets more heat for putting his hands in his pockets than half of the perceived stars do for nearly killing themselves.

If it wasn't for the ME then this would've been trash.

That's why I'm hoping MJF gets it first and we use his title win as a way to prolong the feud with Cody into the summer. He's a surefire star for them, and the biggest obstacle he's currently facing is that he isn't featured enough. The bulk of their program so far has been Cody cutting promos and the occasional MJF focus, but again: Cody's on every week, and often takes up a quarter of the show.

Titles aren't made by who holds them first, they're made by what the champion does with them. My biggest problem with Cody being the first champ is that it would be expected, my issues with Archer/Omega is that I'm still waiting for a match featuring either that I'd actually want to watch. AEW has been 2 steps forward and 3 steps back since the word go, IMO, in terms of booking and overall delivery. The initial titleholder of a brand new belt, one likely to be defended weekly? It shouldn't be somebody who we already see take up 1/4 of the show and have since October.

As long as it's not Omega/Cody/Archer I'll be fine with it. Hoping for a Darby win because that man is money waiting to be printed.

The worst episode yet, IMO. Certain things were well out of their control, obviously, but having three tonally different Brodie Lee segments in a row made me think of EWR ("Brodie Lee has lost overness from this segment"), and there was no reason for Guevara/Omega to go half an hour. Broken Matt is the reason I quit watching TNA for a fourth time, it's bad in the Sharknado way and not in a fun Troma/Full Moon way. Hagar has never been anything but a dull-as-hell midcard guy, no matter his shoot credentials, and they're wasting Mox on him. The best parts of the show were Spears/Gunn betting on the ME, Sammy's "fans," and Darby Allin. Bonus points for the 7/11 confrontation between Sammy and Darby that was tweeted after the show (where the cashier displayed greater presence than most of the roster).

I love this board for the simple reason that it made me re-evaluate what it was that made me fall in love with wrestling. Congrats to all, especially Loss and Goodhelmet, the latter of which hooked me up with ROH comps back in 2003 that really sent me down the indie path.