shodate

Great post, shodate. Let's check The shodate Manifesto and see how you scored... Now please respond the way I know you're going to, so I can check off #6 as well. And for the record...yes I know what I just posted is "deformation." So much for his claims that To no surprise whatsoever didn't even last a week without breaking that one! what is not Polical Fox news in News Source id say the same about MSBNC or akin saying a news source in not accurate is Political https://youtu.be/A-mm4M-GR54?t=50s

@ippon

It's not easy to find footage of a lot of the big matches from before the 90's. The 90's peak produced some universally loved classics, but a lot of it can be divisive due to how influential Toyota was on the overall style. Also they went out of business 15 years ago while NJPW is still producing great matches. but all the spin-off promotions from Zenjo are still producing stuff in the style its the only promotion that do not run on Kings road style and also LLPW is stiil active and h=is underrated as hell and Jwp only want way last year and is underrated as anything you also forgot New Zenjo while i find Stardom is overrated via overexposure wave Pure j sendai TJP or even and alike are all very much better than stardom on consistency basis while stardom more high rateed match even in my opinion its also has si many more 50% or lower rated matches while the other 4 less 85% or above matches thye have less bad stuff and once IO and Toni goes to WWE witch they will in the long im sorry imo that is death that of that roster to many more mainstream fans the le last year, while no AJW 1993 Sendai had the most consistent year of any promotion in the world and JWP, did the year before best promotions is about consistacy imo talking of consistency based on output alone WWE has never been the best consistency comes from how i would rate a match witch it would be for everyone i would wager how people rate matches is subjective though whp you rate how i I would rate or how Dave or Bryan i is very different.

it say the same for the other big 2 Joshi Promotions

this i agree with

Eddie is overrated by a lot of people just like rey is

sorry if this really answer and i know the film vs wrestling idea is not 100% 1 for one but stay with me on this both over and underrated are a case of perspective and based on how one person or particular set views wrestling people like me who love the maestro lucha style will call negro terry and people like the, underrated and people who think Lucha is only that AAA style that was used i in 1990's wcw cruiser division will hate it in think wrestling is one of the most polarized art from there is. Film people who know film wil say Kane is the best film ever made disaper it being no were close to being the bigg that movie is helf up as est drawing one based on how people who view wrestling under the avatar principal the biggest draw is this best work is myopic views to hold alot of the time people like me go via the Kane principal movie held up because of its innovations so the most innovative is the best people like arthouse films so thye like a lot of the odd studff both us and Japanese indies do some sople like Michael Bay so the like High spot high stopfest matches some people like unflinching realistic and technical masterpieces so they like Shootstyle and realism ie execution and techniqueophiles people of my mindset value innovation and realism above all things. innovative workers will alot of the time seam underrated this the reasin that people like Murakami are underrated is murakami's cause he also disliked case his linked with the dark times of Inokisim in New Japan based on hes pure worker on based on the conditions he found himself in je was a very good worker so underrated and overrated depends on what view you hold on the art form as a whole

in ring wise New Japan has never had a down period even in downtime booking wise the in-ring action never dropped off

he about as credible as fox news is

Why would they ? They established a style which was based on escalation (as opposed to excess, really, although one could argue that at some point the escalation reached the excess point). They had no reason to limit themselves since the whole style was about pushing the limits of what it took to keep the other guy down. I just watched Misawa vs Kobashi from 2003 and to me it's the apex (and probably the breaking point) of a style. It is wonderful and it's not simply about doing big spots, there are shitloads of details there. But that doesn't mean Kobashi, for instance, could only work that way. Following the Misawa match, Kobashi got the best match ever out of Tamon Honda but working around his own style (and limitations). Then he worked against Chono, who was washed up beyond belief and still managed to get a Tokyo Dome spectacle out of him (not a great match, because Chono simply wasn't able to, but a good match that made sense, mostly). Neither of these two matches were build around excess, although very clearly rooted in Kobashi's style, and found a way to include his signature bumps (aka headropping) too. Taue's style "grounded" the other three ? Sure. But would have Taue's limitations worked that well against inferior opponents ? Would he have been (an active) part of so many all-time cassics if not surrounded by three of the all-time greats ? Most probably not. And I love Taue and think he was a terrific worker. The merit of Taue to me is not "working within his limitations", on the contrary, when you look at the guy and what he was actually physically doing, he clearly pushed his own limitations to reach for the other three. From there he established his own awkward looking yet awe inspiring at times style. Taue maybe the the greatest overachiever ever. Could not have said it better myself

10 IWRG 9 ROH 8 Dale Martin Promotions 7 EMLL/CMLL 6 JWP 5 AJPW 4 LLPW 3 AJW 2 UWF [ the first 2 ] 1 RINGS ----------------- Honourable mentions U Style Real Japan New Japan Hamada[uWA] JCP

that is not a common view people would say that in the 1990's Misawa was better. im more in the Kawada was best in the ring in the 1990's but post-Noah split Misawa and Kobashi became better and Taue i Like the most but taking an objective view or as Objective as wrestling can be Taue was the worst in the ring Yes, I am aware that's not a common view. That's sort of the point here. I agree with 1/2 of this i think he is way overpraised minus the GWE casts here I have never seen or read Criticisms of him in ring his backstage stuff yes, by fan he Idolized in every Major FB wrestling group iv ever been a part of every time I try to Criisizse him. i was the only deceting voice so i fail to see how he is underrated. i know this is anecdotal but Fujiawra is very good pick here he is so underrated No offense shodate but did you even read the topic of the thread? It's wrestlers who are overrated in one community and underrated in another. Michaels fits that perfectly (criticized way too unfairly here hence underrated) but praised as undisputed GOAT elsewhere (hence overrated). The Ogawas are rated here (a little too highly IMO hence overrated). Plus your Fujiwara pick support doesn't make sense, what about the overrated part? Fujiwara may be overrated by people who hold my ideals of wrestling same for people like Tamura or Volk Han are while no causal will ever like any of them and will call that boring and untalented, while Techniqueohphiles will love them and rate them highly if not as high as the micronism within the micronism would rate them Rey Jr is not a better worker than any og the three above mentioned workers as an example. [ read this as me calling rey jr overrated as well the defence of my view on Fujiwara HBK is nigh on Univseallly Praised based on what i have read or heard of him i have never seen outright Criticisms of him as performer minus his backstage Histronics with a huge amount of fans calling him the best of all time as much as a have grown to like PWO we are such a small microcosm of the wrestling fanbase as i wager post-comeback HBK was not enjoyed here per say. when i debate in other places about HBK using the way i see wrestling and workers as by debate point to say he was never that top level of a worker i just get one of three reply 1 Your Judging wrestling wrong [ this is condescending a and Relevaistic view ] 2 Overselling is good 3 Techqinue and execution is not important When 99% of the fanbase put him so highly with only small amounts of dissenting voices exist would not call him underrated based of purely anecdotal evidence based on past debates I have on the subject of that Worker. i see HBK how FXNJ sees Inoki but on the opposite side of it.

it is a case of value proposition someone sees the term Main event they expect long and exacting stuff or the feel Ripped off

that is not a common view people would say that in the 1990's Misawa was better. im more in the Kawada was best in the ring in the 1990's but post-Noah split Misawa and Kobashi became better and Taue i Like the most but taking an objective view or as Objective as wrestling can be Taue was the worst in the ring

I agree with 1/2 of this i think he is way overpraised minus the GWE casts here I have never seen or read Criticisms of him in ring his backstage stuff yes, by fan he Idolized in every Major FB wrestling group iv ever been a part of every time I try to Criisizse him. i was the only deceting voice so i fail to see how he is underrated. i know this is anecdotal but Fujiawra is very good pick here he is so underrated

10 Ken oh 9 Kimura Hana 8 KAORU 7 Suzuki Hedeki 6 Fujiwara 5 Black Terry 4 Golden Magic 3 Bryan 2 Suzuki Minoru 1 Nakajima Arisa Honorable Mentions Brock Io Togo Nakamura Joe Doring Miyahara Suigura Tanahashi Shibata Naito Takashita[ i hate DDT ] Ishikawa Ishii Carvanario

i never heard anyone rate Either Ogawa they are both underrated Murakami is underrated cuse his ties to the dark time of New Japan but he was never a bad worker i dislike HBK cause of poor technique his execution is fine but his technique is poor most of my underrated guys are not rated altogether

I think the indy workers trying to recreate 90s AJPW is kind of like rappers in the late 90s tying a bandanna around their head and expecting to become 2pac. Sure, they were fans and liked that style, but they kind of cherry picked the aesthetic parts, but not the deeper parts that made those style work. AJPW was a lot of flashy moves, but those moves were built upon years of character development, story-telling, and psychology. That's not something you can really recreate in a high school gym with a cast of characters that is fluid by nature. You can do a bunch of flashy moves and drop people on their heads, but without the foundational psychology of AJPW you're putting solar panels on the roof of a dog house. Hen why i use the term Indy/Road cuase it the style without the substance but modern NJPW copies that style i know this since Gedo hates strong style

The thing is Style and match structure wise Roh 00's and NJPW 10's is much the same as AJ 90's Talk to most indie guys they will say the liked AJPW pore growing up more os than NJPW they copy the Kings Road style simple as that sometimes the workers are better or sometimes there not match quilty wise since there much of the same style Aj 90's did it better they are better. Match Quilty is the most Subjective thing in the world so yes but that is the point

2010 new Japan is Kings Road any way Gedo love that style he hate strong-style and shoot style hes said ad=s much himself os in the long Run Baba won

Style wise there are one in the same hence why coind the term indie-Road basically Kings Road but not all Japan of the 1990's hell Kings Road style os teh most prevalnet style in the world Stong style is Just a Marketing Term Strong style as been dead or at least 10 years i agree with mad dog here minus Joes run i found it a bore miuns the punk and dragon matches but miuns that his right match quilty wiseall Japan 1990's is eaplcyy 1993-1998 is the most consitant on the world hence why by the time he died baba was the 2nd richest wrestling promotor in theworld

That should say that he is not challenging for it yet, he said he was focusing on the GHC challenge first. That tweet was written as he was speaking before a translation came through and was based on the interview Maru had before the tourny when he said he may not challenge as he was more focused on the GHC, this has been misconstrued that he is never challenging for the belt. There is no way that AJPW let an outsider, from NOAH no less win the champions carnival and pinning their ace in the final without something coming from it. sorry to be pedantic but was not Maru trained at AJ dojo

i found this match fun i always liked Corino and he did not disappoint me here and this match peeked my interest in the other guy i may look him up more thank you for giving me this fine match ***

Clinton raised taxes on everyone. So did Reagan and Bush the elder. Obama didn't raise taxes on the wealthy. He just let the Bush tax cuts expire, and even that was pretty tough to pull off while holding Congress. Wall Street was pretty supportive of Obama and Hillary and plenty of other candidates to have turned on the party with the vengeance. That simply didn't happen. Dodd-Frank was written by lobbyists to ensure that "Too Big To Fail" remained a thing. There are indeed differences between the two parties. But again, I'll say it for the third time -- they both support free trade. They both support broad military intervention. They both support deregulation. And I covered the tax stuff. When Medicare For All ends up in the party platform, then I'll believe the party supports it. im all matters that matter to me there both the same imo

its been the best carnival in years while not as good as the 1990's ones its been very good