elliott

Shit, I totally brainfarted on Jumbo getting sick forcing Baba to change again in the 90s. Geez. That's the last really major thing . Thanks John

Tenryu left in 1990. So that was an outside force driving Baba to make changes going into the 90s and elevate the next generation setting the business on fire. 90s. It will take a while for new talent to become stale. Eventually they did because they were the same guys wrestling each other over and over again. The most beloved feud of 90s All Japan was Misawa vs Kawada. Was that a masterfully booked feud? Or was it one guy beating another guy (in great matches, don't get me wrong) for eternity? If Baba was a genius booker, couldn't he have figured out a way to do something with the next generation of natives to keep the big 4 or 5 fresh? If All Japan was the best booked company in wrestling history why were their undercards so lame? I'm not trying to shit on Baba or All Japan. There will probably be 4 AJ guys in my top 10 and between 6-8 AJ guys in my top 30 for the GWE. The company has produced some of my favorite matches, feuds, wrestlers, etc ever. But it is almost in spite of the booking that the there were so many great matches. Late 70s-late 80s "These guys will wrestle to a double countout because we have to protect them." Late 80s-The Split "Wrestler X will beat Wrestler Y because Wrestler X is older and more Experienced" Not exactly the most exciting booking philosophies. Riki Choshu was right there. I also would have accepted Jerry Jarrett

I think Baba was an incredibly smart worker. On the short list of smartest workers I've seen. But I would absolutely not point to the booking of All Japan as evidence of Baba's genius. He was an incredibly conservative and unimaginative booker. When AJ was hot it was due to outside forces like Choshu jumping and Tenryu leaving, not because Baba came up with some hot program.

OJ, could you elaborate more on long tags not being AJ's forte? Also, just some questions I had off the bat... What are you considering long? 20+ minutes? 25+? 30 or more? What is your favorite AJ tag? The two most highly regarded AJ tags are probably 6/9/95 and 12/6/96. How do you feel about those two matches specifically? Do you think this was always the case or is it more of a mid 90s and on thing?

I had seen virtually no Fujiwara at the start of this project. Since then, I've watched every 80s set and Fujiwara is a lock for my top 10. I saw him as the standout worker of the NJ vs UWF feud, which is possibly the best in-ring feud I've ever seen. All time great matches with Maeda, Takada, Super Tiger, Yamazaki, Choshu, Inoki, etc. . Was great in singles or tags, against great workers or mediocre-bad workers. Could work the mat, brawl, was a great seller, awesome bleeder, etc etc etc. Fujiwara rocked. If I just turned in a top 100 from the 80s, Fujiwara would probably be my #1 or #2 guy.

I just saw Bill Thompson mention Stan Lane in the "Who is in your top 100?" thread and that jumped out at me because I've been thinking about Stan Lane lately. He isn't really highly regarded by anyone but he was in a shit ton of great tag matches and like Dylan said above, he was in two of the best teams ever and a third really good team. Lane is a really weird guy. I kind of want to include him because I love all the tag teams he's in. He is someone I might look more into. Are there any standout singles matches?

Everyone loves a great brawl. Who are some of the best you've ever seen and who are some of your favorites? What matches stand out? How will the guys primarily viewed as brawlers do on your final list?

Grimmas told me a while back this was mislabeled and is supposed to be the Infernales thread. There were a few different teams under that name, but this has to be the Satanico/MS-1/Pirata Morgan trio and they are #1 on my list. Great brawlers and mat workers. Terrific double and triple team work. Great chemistry as a team and they always look like elite workers. Sure they have an advantage over almost everyone because there are 3 of them. But they're awesome and the best team I've ever seen so I'm putting them at #1.

Yes, horrifying. i find posts like that extremely offensive. Please. ProWrestlingOnly. Please.

Agreed. Please not this again. If you enter every thread and say you won't vote for someone because of moral reasons, people will continue to point out how bizarre your perspective is. Please stop doing it. Posts like that are seriously horrifying. Can we please discuss these guys as wrestlers and leave this stuff out of it? Please.

I absolutely love Murakami vs Ishikawa from 2000 so much that it makes me want to put Murakami on my list. Even thinking about him probably makes me the high voter there...

Honestly I'm in this boat and so it makes it weird to pimp 2002 because I remember thinking that match was really good at the time. Even if you disregard that match, and hate HHH/HBK and Taker/Test, I really think there's enough on that show that makes it a really good show with the fun opener, tag, and main event. I would recommend WIll rewatch it but skip the 6th, 7th, and 8th matches

I agree that 2013 is the best SummerSlam, but I would also agree that the lack of love for 2002 was surprising and I hate that HHH/HBK match. Everyone knows and likes Angle vs Mysterio Jr as the opener. I remember Flair vs Jericho as a surprisingly good old man Flair match. Not a blow away great match or anything, but I want to say there was some good limb work and Flair actually submitting someone with the figure 4 will always make me pop. Eddy vs Edge was another good solid match. I remember really liking the RVD match in 2002 as one of the better Van Dam matches. I won't be rewatching that match though and don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to. Is this the match where Voldemort did the rolling northern lights suplex spot? Booker and Goldust vs Lance Storm and Christian was a really fun tag match with a super hot crowd. Good Goldust performance. Taker vs Test and HBK/HHH both sucked. Main event was great. I love the 1998 show for sure, but it was weird hearing all the talk about how it was a fun show up and down the card but the main event was a let down. 2002 had a really fun undercard and a terrific main event. HHH/HBK was bad but it didn't overwhelm the 7 matches I did like to varying degrees on the show. It sounds like I do need to go back and rewatch 2001 though.

Satanico and Sangre Chicana for sure. I might end up the high vote on Atlantis too. I know Parties mentioned Maeda, so I'm wondering what range Maeda is for him. I could see Maeda sneaking into my top 25-30. Yoshiaki Yatsu will do really really well for me as the Japanese Bobby Eaton. Mad Dog Vachon is also a stone cold lock for my list and I'd be surprised if anyone else felt that way.

I think the Kohsaka draw from 98 is one of the best and most athletically impressive matches ever. That match is just incredible. Also wanted to say his match vs Vader was always my favorite Vader in UWFi match. Short but just a fantastic big man vs little man match.

I think I would struggle to name 5 matches from the history of WWE that I like more than Cena vs Bryan. I like Grimmas top 5.

Having wireless problems so I'm posting from my phone which makes linking shit really difficult. But I wanted to nominate the short lived but incredibly awesome Hansen/Tenryu team.

Terry Funk is my pick and I wish someone, someday would make an HBO mini-series about his life.

Honestly, when I brought up HBK it had less to do with him being an unprofessional prick who refused to drop titles and showed up to work stoned and has more to do with the fact that when Shawn was the anchor, the WWF was getting it's ass kicked by the competition and was not the #1 promotion in America for the first time in...ever?

Skimming through the thread I didn't see this mentioned: Shawn Michaels was/is a star on the same level of importance to WWE history as Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bruno, etc.

Thinking about it a little more, even though I love the Kawada and Taue matches perhaps it would be more instructive for Matt to watch: 9/4/91 vs Kobashi 7/27/93 vs Kobashi 4/10/94 vs Kobashi So my thinking is this would give Matt a good view of early 90s aging Hansen vs the young up and comer on the rise at 3 different stages of his career: Not close to ready to beat the vet, close to ready to beat the vet, ready to beat the vet. If Matt is willing to watch a 4th match, I would include 9/5/96 vs Kobashi at yet another stage in his career in another great match worked differently from the prior three. Then if you like those watch the other stuff then watch everything because it is marvelous and you will love it all. But if you're not into the Kobashi series, then I would say you're unlikely to dig any of Hansen's work in Japan. I dunno, just a thought.

Phil's post makes me sad. But, like I said in the nomination thread, I will watch and review literally everything I can find online and on the 80s Memphis and MegaLawler sets before this project ends.

I nominated Nagashima based on decade+ long memories and seeing all the activity in the Satomura thread reminded me "wait a minute, Chikayo Nagashima fucking rocked!" I absolutely preferred Nagashima to Satomura in late 90s/early 00s Gaea. Satomura got most of the love back then from joshi fans and the promotion but I always looked forward to Nagashima matches more than Satomura when new tapes would come. Loss hits it right on, as usual, by highlighting her strength in working complex finishing stretches. She almost reminded me of a joshi version of Dan Kroffat in that sense. She was definitely a dynamic tag wrestler and was able to successfully play underdog babyface and cocky prick heel inspite of her size. I remember when Ozaki took her under her wing and Nagashima really started to develop a cocky heel persona, that I always thought she would have been the perfect female member of KDX. She was probably better in tags than in singles matches. I remember being really really excited for a Lynch tape with a long (like 27minutes) Satomura vs Nagashima singles match from 2002 or 2003 that I ended up absolutely hating at the time. I haven't watched either of them since to be honest. But I look forward to revisiting her early career and I was really glad to see the praise she got in the yearbook threads from Loss. Also, I'll never forget the Dean Rasmussen quote about Nagashima from an old dvdvr "I have seen the future and it wears tiny yellow pants!" That still makes me laugh.

First of all, you are a true gentleman for bringing up Maeda and Baba. But more importantly, can you recommend the best big Fuyuki in FWM matches to watch? I was hoping someone not on my radar would be brought up and Fuyuki's FMW career is definitely not on my radar.

So, if you parse that, I'm giving him credit for the same thing I give Demolition credit for. I said I respected it and that it was even remarkable for how impressive it is. To me, the end result in Hansen japan matches is less in the form of shine/heat/comeback, though. The end result becomes sort of a constant back and forth motion, an ebb and flow, something more circular instead of something with act breaks and escalation between them. The match doesn't crystallize in the same palatable way. Matches don't necessarily have to have that format, BUT in a situation with such organic storytelling, I think it helps for me to enjoy it. Otherwise, it's becomes a lot of noise to me. I don't for a second take away from what Hansen does, though. I think it's hugely impressive. It just becomes a little overwhelming to me, because I don't necessarily feel like it changes gears in the same way. I probably wouldn't like Demolition in Japan either, and as I said, I've quite liked the Hansen I've seen OUT of Japan. Reading this I think you'll really like the Kobashi match as I think it has more of a clear structure that you seem to be looking for. I still don't agree overall but I'm beginning to understand your perspective. Thanks