Eduardo

Yep, true, we've seen that lead to ankle locks, power slams, boston crabs, backbreakers, and other trademark moves.

Disagree about this. Most of the time I've seen Rey hit the 619, he sets guys up by putting them in that position with hurricaranas hit from different positions, various versions of the head-scissors, drop toe holds, monkey flips, low dropkicks, arm drag variations (pro wrestling-style, and I've probably even seen a variation on the BJJ version) and a few other moves I'm forgetting. A good amount of the times when I've seen guys fall in that position, it's usually just a tease for the 619. Do people that have an issue with Mysterio's 619, have the same issue with Santo's "Tope de Cristo" (one rudo lying in the middle of the ring, waiting to be somersault tope'd and another one outside the ring, waiting to get tope'd)? It's one of my favorite spots in pro wrestling, but I figure if people have a problem with the 619, they'd probably hate that spot.

For some unknown reason, this was the match that hooked me on pro wrestling in 1995. I haven't watched it since it aired 19 years ago, when I was 9 years old. I heard it's on the WWE Network now, so I should just watch it for fun since I'm curious. I think as a kid, I just dug the Hart's persona, and Lawler's over the top antics. Started watching RAW (and sometimes Nitro) weekly right after I saw this.

Didn't Foley claim that the fence was supposed to partially give way, and he was supposed to slip through it (under his own control), as opposed to going through it like a hot knife through butter (like it ended up happening)? I remember hearing him say that specifically, although the way he claims it was supposed to happened sounds like it would be an awkward and odd looking spot.

I went to a house show earlier this year, and saw they were having a Cesaro-Ziggler match. I was like, 'Oh cool, let's see what they do.'. They got like 10 minutes, but they worked about 8 minutes of it like this over the top, dramatic finishing stretch of a far longer match. It was so disjointed and disappointing.

I remember after Chavo Guerrero Sr. was released from the WWE for missing several shows in 2004, his first gig was wrestling at Bruce Tharpe's IWF promotion. I think they had a connection stemming back from the old Florida territory. The announcer for his promotion, Mando Sanchez, told me Guerrero Sr. showed up drunk for his IWF debut. Under the influence, middle aged Guerrero Sr. was still surprisingly decent. I've only seen it once, many years ago, but I remember loving Chavo Guerrero Sr vs Tatsumi Fujinami. Seen a little bit of his 1980's work, but I really would love to see more.

I guess my memory was a bit off. I remember some fans chanting "Shut the fuck up!" at the fans chanting "Same old shit!", and remember reading on message boards how the people chanting the latter phrase were "CZW fans". I don't know if that was true, used as an insult, or just said because of the then ROH vs CZW feud at the time. But yeah, now I do remember Danielson improvising and playing along with the crowd after hearing these chants.

I'm a big fan of Danielson's work from that 2006 period, but while yes it's different stylistically, I don't see how it was less predictable than his WWE work. Let's not forget fans chanting "same old shit!" at Danielson in 2006, during his title run. Yeah the fans were being pretty annoying, but you could call what he was going to do next during that period (not that I hold this against him). That's why the 2007 run felt fresh, since he tweaked his work, and changed up what he was doing.

Haven't seen his late 90's or early 2000's stuff since it happened, so it's been too long to really give good thoughts about that. But I thought Jeff Hardy had a strong run from 2006-2009. The Hardy Boyz team in late 2006, and early 2007 felt like a superteam out there. Ladder match at Armageddon 2006 was wild, and it led to the epic Hardy Boyz vs MNM match at the Royal Rumble 2007. That Hardy Boyz vs MNM is a strong contender for the best tag match in company history, and I still really regret not skipping work to go to San Antonio to watch that (and Cena-Umaga). They also had a feud with Cade and Murdoch that I really dug, and it had some really good work, although it didn't reach the highs of that RR 2007 match. Then Jeff started that feud with Umaga in the Summer of 2007, which was really good too. They had at least one great match, and several fun matches on TV. That's when I started to see that Hardy was one of the best sellers in his promotion. He was great at rallying the crowd behind him, and with the possible exception of Cena, he was Umaga's best opponent. 2007 is usually remembered as a great year for Cena, and it should be, but Jeff also had a heck of a year that saw him rise to become a main eventer, and one of the better performers in the company. It was such a good year that people were craving to see Hardy beat Randy Orton for the title at Royal Rumble 2008. Have no idea if he would make a list of mine, but that 2006-2009 period was what made me a big fan of Jeff.

Re: HOF. Not that it counts for anything, but Pro Wrestling Illustrated started promoting the WON HOF as the main professional wrestling hall of fame a few years ago. I remember being surprised when a friend of mine, who has never subbed to Meltzer's newsletter brought this up to me. He even showed me his issue of PWI since I probably looked surprised, since I haven't read those magazines in ages. Don't know for how long, but they would have wrestler profiles on workers who had been inducted into the WON HOF.

Found this magazine on eBay. Holy shit. One line on the cover reads, roughly translated, "Hitler...was right!" Another line, "Homosexuality in lucha libre!" Almost tempted to buy it just to see what the context to all this is.

At the end of the 1990's, a lucha libre special aired on some channel where they showed highlights of all the greatest, or most memorable matches of the 20th century. I remember when they showed this, it always struck me as something unique, and I remember loving the armbar finish. This was many, many years before I saw the complete match. I need to re-watch this to give a full detailed breakdown. If you saw this match online, you might have not seen the post-fight, which is interesting. Casas says that Santo didn't win, but that he (as in Casas) lost. He then points to his clavicle/shoulder area, and claims that Santo's win was illegal, it was a dirty move since someone must have told Santo he was (secretly) injured going into the bout. Casas said that he'll only cut his hair for the fans. Santo denies any wrongdoing and blows off Casas' claims.

Cool, thanks for the update.

I'm confused because many of the ballots in this thread list up to 15 people. Kris is just talking about workers. I don't think there is a limit when it comes to how many non-workers you include.

At the very least, he had a fun series with Christian. Some matches weren't given much time, but I remember at least one pretty good TV match. I think DDP and Christian probably had similar ideas on wrestling, and enjoyed working with one another. It showed in their work.

I still would like to see a detailed breakdown of when LA Park was headlining at the Plaza de Toros Lauro Luis Longoria in Nuevo Laredo. Heard from Jose that Park, along with Pierroth Jr. and Pimpinela Escarlata, were drawing a lot of fans to their weekly Monday night events in the late 1990's. If I'm not mistaken on the brief details I heard, they were doing better attendance than NJPW was doing during one year. Was it 1998? That was the year Pierroth Jr. dropped his mask to Park in Nuevo Laredo.

Love this so much.

Great information, thanks guys.

Cool, thanks for the reply Kris.

Just in case someone asks for a specific quote, when I first started subscribing to the newsletter in 2004, I remember him mentioning it a few times in the mid-2000's. I don't have those print issues anymore, but he mentions this claim again in a March 3, 2014 issue: "Guzman, 50, the son of Mexico’s all-time most famous wrestler, movie star and sports hero, Rodolfo Guzman Huerta, the original El Santo, was Mexico’s biggest drawing card as well as a huge Hispanic draw in a number of U.S. markets during the 80s and 90s. While not having the charisma of his father, we was a far better wrestler." Obviously that "we" was supposed to be a "he". The reason I bring this up isn't even about who was better, as obviously we'll never know, but more so if this is actually something that's said, thought or claimed in Mexico.

I've read Dave Meltzer claim a few times how people he's talked to have told him that El Hijo Del Santo was a far, far better worker than his father. Maybe Jose, OJ, or Kris can answer, is this something that's actually said by workers and insiders in Mexico? Or this talking point non-existent, or just bullshit? Or maybe Meltzer talked to some modern guy who said something like this and now he just casually throws it out without much thought? I just thought it was an unusual claim since I seriously doubt Dave talks to workers and insiders who would have seen El Santo work complete matches during the 1950's, 1960's.

Along with the selling, I saw it as Negro Casas' own twist of a staple spot in high stakes, lucha libre singles matches in the 1980's and 1990's. In many matches throughout those decades, a wrestler would go out on the apron, survey the crowd if he should do a high risk move off the top rope. The chances always seemed like 50/50 if he would hit the move, or if he would crash spectacularly. These spots, when done right, might be the only time I've ever seen an audience actively encourage, sometimes beg a wrestler not to do something flashy, as the risk was way too high. Casas milks this spot for all its worth, as he looks to the audience, visually asking if he should climb or not. Listen to the loud "No!" from the audience. Someone in the crowd can even be seen wagging their finger. "El publico dividido, unos dicen que si, otros que no," ("The public is divided, some say yes, some say no,") the announcer said. He slips in such a shoot way that I've never seen anyone else do, and the announcer, almost mockingly, says, "Ah....solito." ("Ah...all by himself."). The audience reaction is huge. Some can be heard laughing, while others are whistling to tease Casas after his grave error. Of all the guys I've seen do this spot, this was by far my favorite take on it, and I felt like it worked so perfectly within this match. He just didn't have enough in him to even attempt his move off the top. PS: This might be bullshit, but I sometimes think that the reason Casas beat La Fiera in a Hair vs Hair match later in 1993 with a top rope splash, was to build off this famous spot. A bit of a macho deal where he wants to prove something to himself.

Random neat story. I was over at a friend's house watching the UFC PPV last night, and I asked my friend's dad if he knew who Atlantis was, because of his recent match with Ultimo Guerrero. He's in his late 60's, and he told me how from the 1970's to the early 1990's (when he finally moved his family to the U.S.), he would go with his buddies and family to a bunch of lucha libre shows in Monterrey and Reynosa. He's more of a boxing fan, but he still had a lot of fun at those shows. I asked him who were some of the big names he saw live, and he named Rene Guajardo, El Solitario, Dr. Wagner Sr., Angel Blanco, Ray Mendoza, Los Brazos, Atlantis, Perro Aguayo Sr., Negro Casas, Rayo De Jalisco Sr. and Jr., Los Hermanos Dinamitas, Los Villanos, and several others. I was telling him how awesome it is that he saw all these guys, some of whom were at their peaks, live.

Re: El Hijo del Santo, Angel Azteca y Super Muneco vs. Satanico, Psicosis y La Parka, AAA 5/30/94 Love the lock-up, and the Greco-Roman clinching from Satanico and Azteca. I knew I was in for something good when I saw Azteca try a Greco-Roman throw, only for Satanico to counter him with a double-chicken wing pinfall attempt. I love this match. Also, since you mentioned it, I'm always amused of Santo's sentimental, syrupy music from the early-to-mid 1990's. It's so ridiculous but damn, I love that he used it. Later he used some generic song and a Mission: Impossible theme, and those weren't as fun or unique. The "El Hijo del Santo" song:

Wasn't one of the stories about the WWF-AAA deal, that AAA thought they would be getting Bret Hart, or The Undertaker for a match, but instead got Fake Diesel, Fake Razor Ramon, and Jake "The Snake" Roberts?