ohtani's jacket

Caswell Martin vs. Chic Cullen (1/16/85) Caswell Martin vs. Chic Cullen (2/27/85) These were okay. I've soured on Cullen a bit since going through a period where I was high on him. He has some good stuff that aired on TWC, but this extra original broadcast stuff hasn't pushed his case as a great worker and that's been against some pretty top draw talent. The first match only aired the meat and potatoes of what was a double countout to set up a rematch, so it was never going to be hugely satisfying. The second bout was better, though they did this strange bit of booking where it seemed like it was going to be an injury finish in the second round, but Cullen convinced the ref he was fit to continue. I've seen them do that to great effect in later rounds but never so early. I guess it was meant to draw sympathy for Cullen, but the crowd didn't seem to care that much and Cullen wasn't the sort of performer who could really put over an injury like that. At least the action was stronger than the first bout, though Martin tends to overuse certain pinning combinations. That's a criticism you could probably make of all British wrestlers, however, as those pinning combinations were seen as specialty moves and the workers often scored from them in every single match. Caswell Martin vs. John Elijah (11/5/86) Solid late period match. Going into this I expected a power contest with plenty of strength holds and maybe a bit of mat wrestling from Caswell and that's exactly what I got. Both these guys were reliable performers and two of the better guys on the roster at this late stage, but they were never going to have a four star match outside of the halls maybe. But dependable can be enjoyable with a safe pair of hands.

Caswell Martin vs. Marty Jones (10/16/85) This went 10 rounds of a 15 round title match so not all of it aired on TWC. It was a good contest, but a step down from an epic title match. I think this was generally because it was face vs. face and the better title matches are heel vs. face and Martin wasn't going to take the title, but it was decent enough. Jones was past his best here and on the downhill slide, whereas Martin maintained his form right through to the end of television. Caswell Martin vs. Dave Bond (12/7/81) Dave Bond has what I like to call clumsy enthusiasm, where a worker isn't technically good but has plenty of exuberance. He's most famous for being one half of the Caribbean Sunshine Boys and having some pretty great heat filled bouts against the top faces, but he defied all expectations here by working a sporting bout the whole way through. I've no idea why he wanted to work a pure contest but it was the best he's looked from a technical point of view. A lot of credit for that has to go to Martin who was really great at making guys look good in a technical setting. Really enjoyed this.

Been watching a lot of rudo-driven matches this week, so this one's a tribute to rudoism. Rey Bucanero, Satanico y Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Apolo Dantes, Black Warrior y Dr. Wagner Jr., CMLL 3/21/97 This was a one fall, rudos contra rudos final to decide the vacant trios titles. Since it was a title match, the rudos kept with tradition and worked a technical match instead of brawling with each other. For a single fall match it was a well worked bout and could have been something special if it had been three falls. I loved seeing Satanico work the mat with Wagner. Wagner was one of the unsung heroes of '97 and Satanico was still an extraordinarily talented wrestler at this point. He had a diminishing role within the company after his return from AAA, which I can understand from the promoter's point of view, but as the biggest Satanico mark I know there are so many match-ups I wish we'd gotten with Satanico as a lead guy. This was cool, though, because you weren't getting Satanico vs. Wagner without a turn. The spot where they butt heads with both hands behind their backs should be aped in twenty thirteen. Mascara Año 2000, Universo 2000 y Miguel Perez vs. Pierroth, Apolo Dantes y Emilio Charles Jr., CMLL 10/6/95 This was rudos contra rudos the way it's supposed to be. If Dusty had been calling this, he would've hollered: "there's no honour among thieves in the first place, Alfonso Morales!" This had it all really. Emilio was stretchered out with a rib injury only to return later in the match and have his ass handed to him. Pierroth and Apolo Dantes fought against their opponents three on two, Dantes bladed, the Dinamitas came within a whisker of turning on Perez for eating a fall, and there was a general feeling that this wasn't your regular night out at the wrestling. And to make matters better, it ended in excessive rudosim. Tinieblas Jr, La Fiera y Negro Casas vs. Los Villanos IV, V y Bestia Salvaje, CMLL 7/3/98 Satanico, Black Warrior y Villano III vs. Tinieblas Jr, El Felino y Negro Casas, CMLL 7/28/98 One good thing about 1998 is that you get a lot of Casas vs. Villano III. Sometimes in lucha, trios are the only way you get to see particular match-ups and you're left with these fleeting exchanges to satisfy you. On the other hand, trios teach you which workers were good at working with anybody and are a great leveler in that respect. It's one thing to have an exchange with Negro Casas for the ages and another thing entirely to make Tinieblas Jr. look worthy of stepping in a ring. Tinieblas' biggest problem was that he was a billed 6'4", which was closer to his real height than a worked figure in respect to the size difference between him and most luchadores, and he stuck out like a sore thumb in terms of being less talented. Satanico showed his class by carrying him through some respectable exchanges and Villano IV wasn't far off, but the notable thing about these trios was how good Casas was. I've mentioned before that I don't like the direction Casas took post-97, but these matches were cause for reappraisal. The intensity with which Casas worked and his selling ability made him seem like the best guy in Mexico in 1998, possibly in the world. What we don't have are the singles matches to drive that home, as Casas worked a three match stint with Panther and Satanico to lust for but nothing that made tape. Still, if you're a Casas fan you're going to want to track his starring roles in matches like these. Scorpio Jr. vs. El Hijo del Santo, Leyenda de Plata final, CMLL 7/31/98 This was nice in that the rudo won in front of his father and all but the match itself lacked imagination. Scorpio Jr. looked several times worse than in his '97 trios matches and I couldn't help but think that if Casas had been his opponent it would've been a much better match as Casas was a level above Santo at this point, particularly at selling where there was no real comparison. In fairness to Santo, the match was truncated and he couldn't work the typical El Hijo del Santo formula, but as I said with El Dandy and Signo recently and saw again with Casas and Satanico in this week's viewing, some workers are able to make any exchange look good even against a borderline stiff like Scorpio through their selling and body language, and I'm not sure that Santo was one of those guys. He'll probably prove me wrong in some random trios to come but it didn't happen here. Scorpio Jr, Bestia Salvaje y Pierroth Jr vs. Atlantis, Hijo del Santo y Negro Casas, CMLL 8/20/99 This was total carnage. My enduring image of this was the conclusion with bodies lying everywhere, Santo needing to be stretchered and Casas, having leapt from his own stretcher bed to re-enter the cauldron, surveying the battle scene from the ramp. The technico side was stacked, but the rudos leveled the playing field by making this a pure brawl. Pierroth was never the same after 1992, but he was good value here as the kind of prick who'd partner with Scorpio and Bestia. He cut an awesome promo with Morales where he stopped halfway through to beat up Atlantis some more then kept cutting the promo. Damn I love lucha. Felino, La Fiera y Negro Casas vs. Dr. Wagner, Jr., Black Warrior y Scorpio, Jr., CMLL 4/2/97 This was your typical rudos driven trios where it's mostly slower, more methodical brawling interspersed with the occasional rally from the technicos. A lot of people find this style of lucha boring, and I can see the case for that, but to me matches like these are a strong measure of how creative a rudo is. To prevent these matches from becoming a bore, you really have to make the control segments interesting and I think Wagner around this time grew into one of the rudos capable of doing that. In fact, Casas vs. Wagner is one of my favourite match-ups from '97 that nobody really thinks about when they think about 1997. This was just another installment in a series of rolling trios kind of like how there's been a large number of Casas vs. Rush trios this year, but it's one those matches that shows the quality of TV and depth of the roster for this particular year. Negro Casas, Black Warrior y Emilio Charles Jr vs. Mr.Niebla, El Dandy y Silver King, CMLL 9/6/96 Man, El Dandy must have done some pretty hard living between 1991 and 1996 because he doesn't look anything like he did during his green-eyed, best in the world days. He was still a quality worker, though, and his exchanges with Casas were class. I thought they stole the show a bit from Silver King and Emilio, who were supposed to have the main issue here, but I guess that's a consequence of them being so good. I was also impressed with Mr. Niebla in this match. For once he looked like the future maestro he was made out to be at the time. Felino, La Fiera y Negro Casas vs. Blue Panther, Scorpio Jr. y El Hijo del Santo, CMLL 11/28/97 This was another "story match" where they shuffled along the angle of Santo turning face and teaming with Casas to take on Scorpio and Bestia. Casas was elite here again. I'm not sure there's ever been a better guy in Mexico at working feuds. He pretty much takes on all three guys at once in this match and you could easily imagine it splintering off into him feuding with all three simultaneously. And his look after losing his hair to Santo is probably the best look he ever had. I'm almost tempted to dub this his "badass" phase for a guy who's traditionally been an exhibitionist who blurred the lines a bit about his sexuality. Bestia was at ringside with that fucking nose. Jesus, he looked like W.C. Fields with that honker. Scorpio & Bestia did their horsemen act on Casas, Santo objected to it on principle and the promotion continued the slow tease on the Mega Powers combining. Felino and Panther were superfluous to requirements, but did a few good things. I can't remember if Santo did his tope during this match, but throughout this week's viewing I kept thinking about how Santo's tope has got to be top five. It just looks so good every single time.

CMLL was the best promotion in the world in 1997 with the best TV. I'm not sure why that doesn't come through on the yearbook. One of CMLL's major strengths that year was the undercard and the time given to each match so that you got a lot of quality matches on each episode. It's actually a better year than 1990 despite '89-90 being my absolute favourite period for lucha.

It should be fully up to date. I generally edit it when I add a new match.

Mwahaha, man Brick you need to do run-ins for every thread.

It's definitely not me. My wrestling watching has only picked up lately because I'm not involved in a movies or music poll. Phil Schneider is another guy who watches a lot of wrestling.

Cheers, Johnny.

Ken Joyce vs. Dick Conlon (2/13/75) Ken Joyce is like the lucha maestro of British wrestling. His matwork reminds me of Dos Caras at his most creative. Conlon's a guy I've never seen or heard of before and Walton kept suggesting that this should have been lopsided, but Joyce gave him most of the bout and Conlon did a fantastic job working from the top. A lot of the older WoS guys worked four round showcases in the mid-70s, so it was cool to see Joyce giving his opponent most of this rounds and the result was a highly competitive bout. Not only was he generous with the amount of control he gave Conlon, instead of some easy pinfall to win the bout he pulled out a tombstone piledriver, a move you almost never see in British wrestling and a sign that he had to dig a little deeper to win this one. Good bout.

Caswell Martin vs. Steve Logan (12/4/74) Steve Logan was Mick McManus' long time tag partner. He had jet black hair, no neck and looked a bit like a Dick Tracy character at times. His MO was delivering body shots, both legal and illegal, and there was nothing fancy about the way he wrestled. He was never outwardly charismatic like McManus, instead he got over by being mean. Martin worked this about as perfectly as a baby face can in this situation. Logan was going to get his shit in. It was a Logan bout and Martin was simply the latest guy to step up to the plate, but he showed his technical prowess here and a willingness to wrestle despite Logan's body shots. You could probably make an argument that Martin should have gone over in this era where they were in need of stars or at least milked this more as a potential upset, but Martin came out of it looking the better wrestler and a budding star, part of what Walton dubbed the ITV 8 in the yearbook they put out. Caswell Martin vs. Pete Roberts (JIP 12/17/80) This was joined about halfway through and really was an outstanding contest. It was one of those times where you get Pete Roberts in the ring with someone who can work and the sparks fly. The first couple of falls that were shown featured some awesome grappling and some superb standing exchanges. In the final fall they tried to go for the jugular and it didn't have quite the shape as the previous falls, but it was still a really cracking bout. Ray Steele vs. Caswell Martin (4/7/81) Man, when you can make Ray Steele seem this interesting you really are good. I've seen guys like Terry Rudge, Dalibar Singh and Pat Roach get decent stuff out of Steele, but I've never seen him look this athletic against anybody. Martin just seemed to bring out the best technical qualities in all of the guys he faced. Pat Roach vs. Caswell Martin (JIP 2/24/81) The sound on this was absolutely fucked to the point where I had to watch it on mute, which is a shame because this was an awesome contest. Pat Roach has got to be the most technically gifted big man of all-time. I can't think of a guy his size who could take it to the mat as well as Roach. The pattern I'm seeing with Martin so far as that everybody wants to take it to the mat with him. That's a very good sign for fans like me. Roach got frustrated by how well Martin hung with him and started snubbing Caswell between rounds. Then he started some great borderline shit like headbutts to Caswell's back that were really befitting of the kind of tweener character Roach played most of the time. Unfortunately, Martin jobbed again here. He was very much a "go out there and have an awesome match and job to the stars" talent despite really deserving a run with a belt.

What's the deal with the affiliated channels? When I was in the States a few months ago and I wanted to watch the NBA Finals I thought finding the ABC would be as simple as the ABC is on channel 6 or something like that. Do people recognise the affiliate as the affiliate or do they just consider it the ABC?

The answer is no... Not only "no," but he didn't play the pissed off baby face as often as he should have. It was something Monsoon used to always go on about, which I suppose can be interpreted as a dig. If Tito had got angry more he'd probably have double the amount of good matches that he had. He's not really a matches guy, he's a feud guy. Some great feuds which produced good matches, but you can't just stick on a Tito match and expect it to be good.

OK, I'm going to talk about a worker that very few of you have probably heard of, Caswell Martin. Martin was part of the contingent of British workers billed as being from the West Indies and made his professional debut in the early 70s. He was a worker with excellent amateur credentials and had a similar sort of build and athletic prowess to Clive Myers, for those of you who are familiar with Clive. He came along at a time when the public were beginning to tire of the older stars like McManus, Pallo, Kellett and Logan and where there were real opportunities for a young black star to replace the aging Johnny Kwango and Masambula. Martin was a wrestler's wrestler, however, and never adopted any sort of gimmick for television or the halls and didn't play to the galleries as Walton was so fond of saying. He had a nickname "Cast Iron" Caswell Martin, but the only real change he made to his image over the years was dying his fringe. For this reason, he never received the push that was projected for him in the mid-70s and had more success in the German tournaments than he did on the home front, but he was a reliable and solid performer who worked the bills right up to the end of television. And more importantly for us, he was an excellent worker. When I first started seeking out WoS footage, he was one of the earliest workers to leave an impression on me outside the name workers. It's been a while since I've seen a Martin match, but I got a custom made comp of footage I hadn't see and so far the results have been impressive. Martin is definitely up there with the better British workers of his era. Reviews to follow.

Loss' take on Joshi is interesting since not many people watch it these days outside of a pretty closed group of fans and youtube users. The "name" Joshi fans, so to speak, have all drifted away so it's been rewarding to see Loss discover and re-evaluate stuff. I would be interesting for you guys to discuss your issues with Joshi with Loss and perhaps Loss can explain what does and doesn't bother him about the style. Not an entire show perhaps but once Joshi becomes a bit more prominent say around '93.

I don't see Spiros Arion on your list. Is this everybody?

Business was dropping in England in the mid-70s as fans grew tired of seeing the same older stars like McManus, Pallo, Kellett and Logan. I might dig watching the 70s footage we have of them, but they were in the 50s by that point and a few of them in their 60s. Joint Promotions tried to push some younger workers around this time and a few of them became mainstays like Steve Grey, Mark Rocco and Marty Jones, but it was clearly Daddy and Haystacks and John Quinn, the heavyweights and super heavyweights, who drew the last of the big houses for Joint. If Daddy had worked properly like in the Elijah match instead of being a lazy fuck all the time, it wouldn't be so hard to contemplate him in the HOF. As for Blue Panther and Atlantis, Panther was obviously better on the mat and was Atlantis' best singles opponent (and vice versa, really), but I don't think Panther was as good a trios worker as Atlantis nor do I think he was as good a technico or rudo in terms of playing a role. Panther was never really the greatest brawler and a lot of his hair and mask matches are weak. In fact, there are quite a few weakish Panther singles matches in general. I'd rather watch Panther against another top worker than watch him try to carry Love Machine, for example. So, I don't think there was a vast difference in their in-ring ability even if there were times such as the end of '97/early '98 where Panther is off the charts.

I see what you mean. Virus strikes as a guy who's a fantastic worker and a midcarder, whose title matches are excellent without having a big match feel. A lot of it boils down to opportunities I suppose. Terry Rudge would be another example if we only had his WoS stuff, but watching him go longer on German houseshows we know he can work a big match.

I watched a whole bunch of Backlund for a WWF poll we did on the old Smarkschoice board and I learned to love the headlock. I actually think I voted that Valentine/Backlund match as the No.1 WWE match of all-time or at least top 3.

I'm a little confused by the topic description. There are a lot of guys who've been mentioned before who weren't main eventers but had a big match feel to their matches. Liger and Fujiwara for example. Finlay in title matches in Europe (I'm not really sure that he was a main eventer in Europe, btw.) Are you looking for the best guys who were non-main eventers or the best workers who didn't have such a big match feel to their work but were great workers anyway?

Sure, and have fun with it. Kawada was a bit of an Internet darling back in the day and people tended to interpret the Kawada/Misawa feud as Kawada chasing even though it's possible that the heel chasing the company ace wasn't really the focal point. But if you're a Kawada fan you can look at it that way. There might even be a lot in the matches to support that perception. We used to "write" Hokuto's story for her back in the day, so to speak. Just trying to describe the emotion in everything we were watching. It's a lot of fun.

He was nobody particularly special as such -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norio_Honaga

As I was trying to say the other day, we don't really know the details about these sort of things. The stock answer is that when Tenryu jumped to SWS he took a bunch of the All Japan talent with him including Tsuruta's tag partner, Yoshiaki Yatsu. Taue was a similar sort of build to Tsuruta and Baba adored him despite the fact he was lazy and didn't train as hard as the others and the thought was he could learn a lot being under Tsuruta's wing. How that was presented to the fans and whether it was even addressed in any way is not clear. We don't really know how the whole split was dealt with on air or in the press. There may be some details in the Observer at the time, but mostly you've got to accept most of these things at face value. Jumbo's feuding with Misawa now, Taue's tagging with Tsuruta, etc. Watching Japanese wrestling is quite different from watching American wrestling and I think people change their mindset a bit when they turn it on. The way you process it and understand it isn't the same. It's almost like the difference between watching a silent film and a talkie in terms of following the silent film a different way. I think that's why people have been suggesting to follow the in-ring details, because it's hard to get a grip and the whens and the whys.

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA handheld 3/16/96) I was all ready to moan about how this wasn't real lucha, but the first two falls of this were actually really cool. It was a really spiteful match compared to most Rey Mysterio vs. Juventud Guerrera bouts and the atmosphere was fantastic with a seat right at ringside and a pan of the arena that made it seem like an amphitheater. There were a lot of neat details that a pro shot match would never dwell on, like a "long take" of Rey Mysterio in his corner trying to recover before the next round. I was really impressed with Juventud in this match. He's not a worker I've ever fully embraced, but there was a real sting to his offence here and from the moment they spat at each other, he brought a real intensity to the match. Of course, anybody who knows anything about this match knows what happens in the third fall. There's a series of run-ins which are indefensible. They don't just ruin the match as a contest, but they decimate it. It's bad enough that it's not worth watching the match, but if you can tolerate the unbelievable shittiness of the third fall the first two falls are excellent. Dr Wagner Jr vs. LA Park (TXT 5/11/13) This isn't the kind of wrestling I like but I forced myself to watch it because so many people are saying it's one of the matches of the year. Usually when there's crowd brawling and chair shots I start to tune out. I can't figure out what was wrong with a good old fashioned ring posting and a little bit of brawling out on the floor, but I will say that as far as dragging a guy through the crowd and the stunts that go along with it, so to speak, these guys are pretty good. I didn't love what they did, but matches like these are all about visuals and they created some great ones. By the time the third caida rolled round, you had Parka with this horrendous blade job that the ref, Black Terry, had to tear off a strip of his mask or something to tie round his head to stop the bleeding, and Wagner with his eyes almost bulging out of his mask, all glass-eyed, probably from the numerous chair shots and Parka slamming his head repeatedly into the mat. The doc did some running repairs on Parka while he was out on the floor, but the bandage went flying as soon as he was back inside. A few people had a problem with the back and forth, your turn/my turn nature of the third caida, but I thought it was pretty typical. In matches like these, the workers tend to take turns dominating the opening two caidas and then the third caida is largely 50/50. They could've done a better job with the overlapping of the falls perhaps and had a third caida turning point similar to the spear into the chairs that began Wagner's comeback in the second fall, but I didn't really find myself wishing for more. The match was largely okay. The finish was bullshit, but that was always on the cards. They could have cut out a bit of the crowd brawling and tightened things up a bit, but I can see the appeal the match has. With the tinge of grey that Wagner was showing and Parka being fat and middle-aged, I did wonder about who'd be better off losing their mask if their long awaited mask match ever pans out. I'm thinking that Parka is so dependent on the skeleton costume that losing the mask would be a pretty big blow. Wagner could probably do his Rock rip-off schtick and still be over. Mind you, I'll probably be middle-aged by the time they find a money mark to put up the cash. Do check this out. Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 4/21/95) This was better than I remembered. It's a good thing I watched it during this period where I've softened on AAA. It wasn't really lucha (ha, there's the moan), but it was reasonably well worked and probably the best Rey vs. Juvi match from AAA. There were a couple of things they blew, but the match had a good energy to it and there was an obvious chemistry between the workers. Psicosis worked the corner well with his FMW t-shirt that looked like it was personally signed by Atsushi Onita. There was a spot I really dug where Juvi had his back turned to Mysterio on the outside and Rey did a tope into his back. That was cool. They did a bunch of other crazy shit too and I've got to give Mysterio his due here: he really is the greatest high flyer of all time. I don't think any of the other flyers have had quite the balance that Mysterio achieved. He really was an extraordinary athlete in his day. I also really dug the way these two would pin each other. If they could have rubbed each other's faces into the mat while getting the three count they would have stuck it to each other. They lent into those pins and there was a whole bunch of extra holding. Good match. Fuerza Guerrera vs. Mike Segura, hair vs. mask (IWRG 11/4/99) This was a fun one-fall apuestas match. Segura's a good worker so I was fairly confident this would be worth the watch. He had a real early 90s grunge look going on for this apuestas match and I half expected him to start singing Even Flow, even though he looked closer to Iggy Pop's age than Eddie Vedder in his close-ups. This being one fall was a bit of a twist on the apuestas format as instead of having the match broken up into three there were twists and turns along the way. There wasn't the blood that you associate with hair vs. mask matches and the brawling was mostly limited to Segura ripping Fuerza's mask, but it wasn't a bad little match. I thought the mask ripping was about as interesting as mask ripping can get. There were some really neat touches from Fuerza, as you'd imagine. He's actually had surprisingly few apuestas matches in his career if his record's correct (like half a dozen), so this is worth watching if you're a particularly big Fuerza Guerrera fan, which most of us are. I was amused by the advertisement on the ring apron for IWRG's angelfire site. Those were the days. Rayo de Jalisco Jr vs. Universo 2000 (CMLL 12/10/99) This was a fun "CMLL is where the big boys play" match before Villano III and a couple of other rudos did a run-in to attack Atlantis at ringside. Whoever was booking this must have had one eye on the Monday Night Wars. Bit of a crock really, but fun to see Rayo and Universo Dos Mil dropping bombs. El Hijo Del Santo, Fuerza Guerrera y Villano III vs. Negro Casas, Shocker y Felino (CMLL 9/4/98) 1998 was a real come down for CMLL after their amazingly hot 1997. They still had an extraordinarily talented roster, but the booking became lax and things turned average pretty quickly. I still think they dragged the Santo technico turn out for too long, though Jose disagreed with me over that the last time we spoke. Week after week of the rudos not wanting Santo in the club anymore but the technicos not being ready to welcome him back into the fold got a bit old to me. This was one of those matches, but look at the talent in the match lineup. There's no way this is going to be anything less than an enjoyable television match and that's exactly what they delivered. Some great match-ups in this -- Casas vs. Fuerza and Casas vs. Villano III to go along with the usual Santo vs. Casas riffs. Negro was really good in this and had an MVP night. Lizmark, La Fiera y Atlantis vs. Bestia Salvaje, Emilio Charles y Dr. Wagner Jr. (CMLL 2/6/98) Fun match that ends in a big pull-apart between Emilio Charles Jr. and Dr Wagner. It starts off with a bunch of heat between Atlantis and Wagner, actually. Their exchanges spill out of the ring several times and it's all very much apuestas tease stuff with a bunch of ground and pound to take advantage of the UFC's rising notoriety?... Seriously, I don't know why they were doing mounts, but they were. Wagner was really starting to come into his own at this point and cracked me up on a few occasions. Emilio was sporting his Triple H look here. He did some decent stuff with Atlantis before the angle. He couldn't bump like before with all the theatrics, but he was busting ass to get back up after each bump. Bestia didn't get to do much and Lizmark still looked pretty good, but Fiera was actively bad. It was kind of sad, to be honest. Match was still technically fun, though.

Did anyone actually benefit from jumping to the WWF? Steamboat maybe? Flair? Dusty from what folks have said.

Who was the chubby Mexican guy with the curly hair and moustache who was often at CMLL and AAA shows in the 90s? He would wear leather jackets and studded clothes or full body suits. He seemed to be a celebrity or something.