ohtani's jacket

You know your DVDs can't arrive fast enough when you're watching all the available YouTube footage of workers you don't particularly like. In this case, I'm talking about King Ben. Ben was a heavy middleweight who mainly worked in the North. He was the father of young wrestler Kid McCoy, who was one of the staples of the later period of television wrestling. Here's a picture of them together: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-j_TGCF8fANo/UKX7...Kid%2BMcCoy.JPG King Ben vs. Kid McCoy (3/19/88) In 1988, the father and son pairing of Ben and McCoy fought this rather novel final for the 1988 Golden Grappler Trophy. Instead of McCoy kicking Ben's leg out of his leg, they wrestled a really clean bout with the odd bemused look from the old man and plenty of jocularity. The YouTube fetishists kind of bit their tongue over this one, though there were some weird comments like, "did anybody wrestle their dad when they were a teenager?" The bout fell somewhere between watchable and a bit of a bore. Ringo Rigby vs. King Ben (2/16/83) This was a short tournament bout that set up a final between Rigby and Dave Finlay. Rigby did a couple of cool spots, but Ben looked woeful on offence. King Ben vs. Little Prince (1/26/88) This was from Golden Grappler Trophy quarterfinals. Prince was a Pakistani wrestler who belongs the shortlist of hairiest men in the history of professional wrestling. This pic doesn't do his back justice: I'll spare you a report on the YouTube comments. The Prince made this interesting. He was extremely belligerent and attacked Ben illegally on a number of occasions when his man was either down or after the bell had gone. This brought out a bit of desperately needed fire in Ben, whose wrestling really wasn't good enough to carry a pure contest. Match ended in a draw after a messy finishing stretch and the referee awarded Ben the match on points. The Prince was screwed! I actually liked this quite a bit. For a match from '88 it was highly watchable. I've said this many times before, but I love how many different nationalities you get amongst WoS workers. Not all of them were real, of course, but it's still cool to see all these workers from not only the Commonwealth but other parts of Europe.

The guys they loved most were Hansen and Brody and Abdullah and Funk, not so much polite golf claps for Nick Bockwinkel. A dead crowd is a dead crowd or at least a quiet one. I think people get confused when the work is good as though the fans are engaged in the strategy of the match or something when they were probably waiting to see Baba.

Japanese fans pop the same as any other crowd. If you ask me, older wrestlers' comments about Japanese crowds are just an excuse for not popping the audience, since let's face it, most American wrestlers didn't know how to pop a Japanese audience. The biggest myth about Japan was that you had to go over there and wrestle a more serious match and that feeds into your idea that the fans are like fans of real single competitor sports. I haven't been to a lot of shows, but I've never come across any fan like that. The connection to the wrestlers is more important than any "real sports" element. I also think there are regional differences in terms of fans. People who watch Osaka shows will attest to that. There's a cultural shift as well. Your 70 crowds aren't the same as your 80s crowds which in turn aren't the same as your 90s and beyond crowds.

When I first got on the Internet the WCW/WWF divide was so strong. There was a lot of death riding of the WWF after Pillman's death and then Montreal especially by people who remembered what Vince had done to the territories. This death riding made WWF fans hugely defensive. When WCW dropped the ball with Sting/Hogan and the WWF started getting attention for using Mike Tyson the worm turned and I'll never forget that Tuesday when WWF won the ratings. My impression was that workrate fans or wannabe workrate fans as many of us were paid heed to the workers in WCW but a lot of older fans who were online had already begun to lose interest. I'm not sure if your older WCW fan ever really embraced the Hogan era. As for WWF fans, the main event was the only match that ever delivered any decent wrestling. That was the one area they excelled in compared to WCW and I think it was actually an important advantage when Austin got hot. I remember those WWF fans who did like workrate would pimp just about anything like that Hardys/Brood tv match, that's how desperate they were for good wrestling. Personally, when the Radicals jumped I was so disappointed with their early matches and with guys like Angle and Jericho that I stopped watching, but really the last decade or so has been by far and away the best in ring product in the company's history even if I prefer a lot of the older matches.

Sammy Lee vs. Mark Rocco (3/31/81) How can a guy as good as Rocco be so shit all the time? This was just awful. Sayama was so over with the crowd, drawing football chant level support, that it would've been a breeze to put together a hot match. After all, all-action, big bumping, show stealing performances were supposed to be Rocco's specialty. Instead, we got this turd-by-comparison, and believe me Sayama wasn't blowing spots either. Bluck. Spencer Churchill vs. Mel Stuart (5/27/75) Spencer Churchill vs. Mel Stuart (12/18/75) Churchill was quite the physical culturalist as Walton liked to put it. Mel Stuart looked like a smaller Dick Murdoch with not quite a quarter of the talent. These were every bit the preliminary bouts. They'd start with a bit of jockeying then Stuart would bend the rules and Churchill would retaliate, a pattern which finally woke the crowd up. I'm waiting for some new stuff to arrive and scraping the dregs a bit here. Can't imagine there being any reason people would want to watch these.

It's hard to say. Sometimes RINGS had shoots even before '99. If it's a work, it's curious why they would choose to work this way.

Simmons always has terrible ideas about tennis. I don't know why he bothers commenting on it when he's clearly not a fan. They won't get rid of the Australian Open since the attendances are so high, but it would be better if it were in February.

I'm glad people are getting something out of my comments. They're a small part of a much more epic thread here -- http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/i...?showtopic=2555 It was my great disappointment to discover that my new find Steve Speed was quite the enhancement talent. Despite that, I believe we have all of the footage from his times on television. Alan Dennison vs. Steve Speed (11/1/83) Walton wouldn't shut up about how unfair it as that Speed had to make his television debut in a catchweight contest against a wrestler the class of Alan Dennison. This was particularly annoying not only for the number of times Walton mentioned it, but because Dennison wasn't a particularly good wrestler. In fact, the only saving grace for this match was Speed bumping for Dennison's strongman act. One of the odd things about Walton's commentary is that there'd be these bouts where he'd be dismissive of one wrestler's chances right from the get-go and instead of praising the younger or lighter worker for putting up a fight he'd take aim at the matchmaking. Danny Collins/Steve Speed vs. Derek Collins/Pete LaPaque (6/28/84) The British Rockers weren't some blowjob babyfaces but a couple of boorish heels. This was Derek Collins' debut as a Rocker. I'm not sure what happened to Tommy Lorne, LaPaque's previous partner. He died in a car crash, but I think that was later. Anyway, this was a bit better than your typical WoS tag match. The Rockers actually cut off the ring and worked a somewhat Southern style, but there as no semblance of the hot tag and it was ridiculous watching Danny Collins get the winning fall without any involvement from either of the partners. No interference from the heels, no teamwork in clearing the ring, everyone just stood around and watched Collins get the pin. It's weird how under-evolved British tag wrestling was. Kid McCoy vs. Steve Speed (6/10/87) Richie Brooks vs. Steve Speed (10/28/87) Speed was from a body building background and got even bigger in the late eighties, hindering his mobility. The Kid McCoy match was awful. The Richie Brooks match was a bit better, but it's so hard to care about these young workers that were all over the screen in the late 80s, unless you're part of the gay British wrestling fetish sect who contribute 90% of the YouTube comments on WoS matches. Anyway, that'll teach me to think someone is a find after one match, especially a match against Steve Grey. Ironically, when I was checking the dates for these matches I saw that Speed was a replacement for Clive Myers in that match and wasn't scheduled to occur at all.

Lenny Hurst vs. Dave Bond (11/20/84) When Bond grew heavier in the 80s, he lost some of his athleticism but became something of a mini European Mark Henry. This started off with some decent strength holds with Bond demonstrating his size and power advantage and Hurst using his veteran guile to escape from Bond's grip, and with so many grey tufts of hair it really was veteran guile on Hurst's part. From there they moved into the heat segment where Bond used his array of inside moves to give Hurst a working over. All of this was perfectly solid and the crowd responded dutifully, but Hurst didn't really have the charisma to make something compelling out of a tried formula. Which isn't to say his selling as lacking, as he clearly tried, but the match lacked a certain spark that you get with the really engrossing rule breaking. Dave Bond vs. Count Bartelli (4/24/79) Bartelli was a big deal in British wrestling, a masked wrestler who went undefeated for twenty years until he lost to Kendo Nagasaki in 1966 or so the folklore goes. After that bout, he unmasked and reinvented himself for another decade plus run. I'm not a fan of late period Bartelli as I haven't seen a great deal of wrestling skill from him, but he carried himself like he had a great deal of wrestling skill, which is the important thing. This was the leaner, more athletic Bond, but a bit rough around the gills at times. In a huge surprise, they put him over here in what I believe was Baretlli's last televised match. Bond got a submission from a vertical suplex position, which as a pretty unique way to get something to submit. Someone in the YouTube comments wondered if it as a failed suplex, but I've seen it used before as a neck hold and I think it's kind of cool. Bobby Barnes vs. Chris Adams (10/11/78) Dave Bond vs. Clive Myers (10/11/78) Bond/Barnes vs. Myers/Adams (10/11/78) The promoters were constantly coming up with gimmick TV matches around this time usually involving teams of some sort. This was a tag team match that began with two singles matches before a two-on-two bout. The singles matches were one fall bouts that were shorter than your average WoS bout. Barnes was all class in his singles match wrestling quite a straight up match against Adams, who kind of sucked at this time. He was like the European Steve Blackman. Bond/Myers had a lot of up tempo action. Barnes was wearing a pimpin' hat before proceedings began. He looked like Bobby Womack on an episode of Soul Train. Myers was already doing his kung fu, martial arts fighter schtick here, but it didn't bother me too much as Bond was a solid foil to schtick like Myers removing his shirt Bruce Lee style. The tag match had some exciting moments, but as many of you are probably aware, Europe didn't do tag wrestling well. Yet worse than the tag match structure was the finish. This was quite a long TV gimmick, a good 30+ minutes of action, yet after making a considerable investment in the match, it ended with the heels getting disqualified for something pretty innocuous. Left me feeling like I'd wasted my time. Fuck knows why they couldn't have put the faces over clean.

I was surprised by how much you liked this. I think their '98 match is the best of their series, but their '99 match is good as well.

This was a decent match. I never really liked Kaoru as I don't think she knew how to use her frame properly in wrestling, but Hokuto brought what was her A game at the time. I'm so used to seeing her in television commercials these days that it was a shock to her when her physique still resembled that of a fitness trainer. Kansai/Fukuoka blew this to smithereens, but for post false retirement, injury affected comeback Hokuto this was really good. It's a shame she couldn't really work like this all the time.

That is beautiful.

Not sure, I tend to avoid Estrada matches and AAA in general. I'm pretty sure he was still taking biggish bumps through '94-95.

Virus vs. Blue Panther, CMLL 5/12/13 Ten minutes? They were only getting warmed up. I don't have a problem with ten minute matches, but CMLL workers generally aren't that clever at working lightning matches and I don't really like the gimmick of an enforced time limit. Still, this was all about the matwork, which, while not life changing, was pretty at times. Virus is pretty clearly the best guy in the company, in my opinion, but I couldn't help but think if it was Demus against a mini it would have been more of a match and less of an exhibition. Terrible vs. Rush, CMLL 1/22/13 I liked this a lot. It strikes me as kind of being like WWE influenced CMLL main event wrestling, which usually I'd be against, but this is the most fun "CMLL is where the big boys play" wrestling since the Aguayos vs. Los Capos feud. It went on a bit too long and they stretched the limits of what they can do, but it was generally positive. Black Metal (Guadalajara), Pegasso, Triton vs. Barbaro Cavernario, Espiritu Maligno, Skandalo - CMLL Puebla 6/24/13 This was a fun match. It reminded me of the glory days of the Puebla locals, which like all good things in lucha was far too short. Cavernario, Maligno and Skandalo were an awesome rudos trio. They brought back memories of being a kid, having a couple of dollars in my pocket after doing a half-assed job cleaning my dad's car, and going down to the local bookshop to discover three of the coolest bad guys were taking on my favourite superhero that month. The great thing about the trio was that they brought a proper rudos structure to the match where you wanted to see the technicos clean house and there was the right balance of exchanges before the third fall dives. The third fall finish was badass and one for the bad guys. Really classic lucha and the best trios I've seen this year. Astral & Shockercito vs. Demus 3:16 & Pierrothito, CMLL 3/29/13 I always forget about the minis. How can I forget about the minis? This was awesome. Demus and Pierrothito are every bit the murder's row of Arkangel de la Muerte, Hooligan and Skandalo. The finishing stretch where they destroyed the technico minis prompted me to listen to Vince McMahon's theme music for some inexplicable reason, but it really was a devastating combo of finishers. Demus has always been great at putting the exclamation mark on matches and it was awesome seeing him tear up shit again. I really dug Shockercito too, more than I ever dug Shocker. He has the look down pat. It's kind of lame that he's aping Mascarita Dorada's spots, but I guess nothing's sacred in wrestling. Magnus, Starman & Stigma vs. Cancerbero, Raziel & Virus, CMLL 2/18/13 This had the best opening matwork fall of the year. And it wasn't simply because of Virus either, I thought each of the pairings were outstanding. They lost me after that and I didn't enjoy the next two falls that much, but it was a heck of an opening fall and something I haven't seen from CMLL for many years.

Yeah, South Africa has a big steroids problem, especially in their schools. Rugby in general isn't as clean as people would like to believe.

Well, fuck I'm glad we've got the straight story on how Dave eats in Japan.

I meant more in terms of being able to order than being adventurous. Even accounting for window displays and menus with pictures, choose and point limits your options pretty dramatically. "Funk sent some girls to pick me up from the hotel" isn't the way Dave told the story. It doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that if they knew roughly where he was going to be then they could have found him. They could've gone around asking all the restaurant staff in the streets if they'd seen him, for example. The story must have stuck with Dave for all these years for a reason. #wemustgettothebottomofthis

I didn't realise Halfpenny was that big. Those Welsh boys sure like their gym work.

Does this make Bryan Danielson the Mike Phillips of professional wrestling?

Ken Joyce vs. Tony Costas (1/9/80) This was a really beautiful "Euro" style match. Ken Joyce was a veteran grappler who had retired and come back more times than Terry Funk and was a master at this style. He had a counter for practically every single hold and would feed his opponent a limb to counter into the hold he wanted, completely befuddling his man. And of course, he did a bunch of tricked out submissions and holds of which the closest equivalent is lucha. In fact, he was almost like the European version of Dos Caras. Costas for his part was game, though this was very much a Ken Joyce showcase. The match lost its shape a wee bit down the stretch, but not enough to sour me on it and I really loved how Joyce used open handed palm strikes. Never seen such an old man look so cool doing palm strikes, except for Fujiwara perhaps. The weakeners he dished out were nasty looking too. Personally, I like Joyce as a representation of this style much more than say Johnny Saint or Steve Wright. Tony Costas vs. Paul Britton (6/28/83) The previous bout made me want to see more of Costas. This was a short, one fall bout against a young man who was making his debut and who I don't think was ever on television again. Some really great action here. Costas could go, but unfortunately there's not that much footage of him. Steve Grey vs. Steve Speed (1/25/84) This was awesome. Steve Speed a lightweight with the physique of a Keith Haward and the skills to match. Grey never shied away from the physical stuff and this was a hell of a contest. Again, it was a shorter one fall bout, but the action was so fast and so snug that Speed got a busted nose and there were these cool visuals of both guys going for broke with Speed's blood smeared over him. Great sub-10 minute bout. I desperately wanted to see more Speed after this, but there's less footage of Speed than there is Tony Costas. Roy St. Clair vs. Tarzan Johnny Wilson (5/11/77) This was a really good heavyweight contest against two pretty big boys. Both guys used their frames to punishing effect and I felt sore just watching it at times. Roy St. Clair was the older brother of Tony; I haven't seen all that much of him so I was scouting him a bit to see whether I should grab a couple of his other matches and on the basis of this I will. This went to an DKO injury finish, but St. Clair sold that his neck had been dislocated and the referee Max Ward put it back in place to gasps from the audience, and I thought if you're going to do an injury finish at least they were creative with it. Good bout from the heavies.

Alan Kilby vs. John Elijah (9/11/84) A bit slower and more methodical than their first match from '84. Still plenty to like, but not as well contested as the Blackburn bout. Alan Kilby vs. Chic Cullen (7/25/84) This was all right, but disappointing by title match standards. The first time I watched it I thought it as a dull face vs. face bout and was down on Cullen. On re-watch, Cullen's grappling was better than I'd thought, but he controlled the bout a bit too much for my liking and consequently Kilby had a quiet match. I expected more from this because their earlier draw in June was very good. Alan Kilby vs. John Elijah (5/22/85) Alan Kilby vs. John Elijah (2/12/86) Well, these two had their match and they didn't stray very far away from it. I didn't really need to see these as the first match they had was the best and the subsequent matches didn't add much, plus they weren't feuding so the finish was usually the same with Kilby getting the rub from beating a heavyweight.

Fair enough, but it's flat and an actual grid not like Shinjuku or Ikebukuro, which would be impossible to find anyone. Mind you, unless Dave was with a Japanese person, he probably had dinner at some western style restaurant which would narrow it down.

When people talk about Nagoya, they really mean the central Nagoya area around the station. Most of the restaurants are street level and in a grid area, if in fact they went everywhere looking for him.

Alan Kilby vs. Ray Robinson (3/9/82) Robinson's television debut. Highlights of each pinfall was all that aired. Alan Kilby vs. John Elijah (4/4/84) This was a good match-up. It wasn't as exciting as Kilby's matches against the top heels, but it was a neat contest and a good showcase for Kilby's wrestling skills. Elijah was always a bit of a JTTS in his own weight class and even in these catch weight contests, but he always gave a decent account of himself and I'd happily watch any of his match-ups. This was wrestled in his typical style with plenty of strength holds and power spots. What impressed me was how well Kilby sold Elijah's offence and how much effort they put into the holds. Nothing came easy; there was a great spot towards the end of the bout that epitomised this: Elijah picked Kilby up for a gorilla press but Kilby hooked Elijah's arms and tried to take him over for a body press. Kilby was wriggling frantically, but Elijah lowered his centre of gravity, walked forward and slammed Kilby over his shoulder onto the mat. Like this they fought for every bit of advantage. Not a heated bout as I said, but I dug Kilby in this and his selling and reactions were great.

Late at night or early in the morning, but I nod off if I'm tired. I sometimes start a match in the evening and finish watching it in the morning. I do the same with movies. I just finished a 3 1/2 hour movie over four or five nights. Some of my friends can't understand watching things in parts, but I'd never finish anything otherwise.