ohtani's jacket

Perhaps Will can introduce a politically correct filter to PWO. Something like gaikoku no senshu. Considering how everyone misuses words like puroresu and joshi at least they get the usage of gaijin right.

My daughter was sick and I've been busy at work, so sorry for the delay... I finished off my Boss Man viewing with matches against Duggan, Hercules, Patera and Razor Ramon. Only the 1990 Royal Rumble match against Duggan was anything of note, though the first Hercules match was pretty decent for its length. The Duggan match was shocking good for a Duggan match, though it had its weaknesses. Now onto the comparison: When Matt first dropped the idea that Boss Man was better in the WWF than Dibiase my gut reaction was that Dibiase was the better pure worker and that the only way Boss Man could have been better was if he'd done more with less or put together generic match structures or some other backhanded compliment like that, but the more I watched the more I swayed in Boss Man's favour. I have quite a few caveats, however: * Neither man had a tremendously high number of good matches. That's good matches by my definition, which others have said is stricter than most people, but personally I don't consider "good for what it was" or "smart work" to be enough when judging matches. The fact there weren't a tremendous amount of good matches from either men isn't a surprise since it was the same conclusion I came to with Tito Santana and is indicative of WWF wrestling more than anything else. Overall, I thought both men were equal when it came to high-end matches, memorable angles and feuds, as well as promo ability. * Boss Man had the advantage of having strong heel and face runs. It's to his credit that he was an even better face than he was a heel, but Dibiase didn't have the opportunity to show off the same range of skills. * From my point of view, a good big man is more interesting than a good hand. That's just a personal bias. * Dibiase was always saddled with a body guard or manager. I got really sick of seeing the same spots with Virgil and Sherri. Boss Man had a bit of schtick with Slick during his initial heel run, but his original gimmick with the cuffs and nightstick was often so surprising in its brutality that Slick was quickly forgotten and of course as a face he went it alone. * Dibiase vs. Savage is *probably* a higher high point than anything Boss Man did. I say "probably" because I didn't want to revisit those Boss Man/Hogan matches, which did very little for me when I watched every single one of them during my recent Hogan phase. What swayed me in Boss Man's favour was the fact that despite the limitations of the WWF format, I thought he gave better performances than Dibiase. Early on in his run, I felt he tried harder to adapt to each match situation, whether it was against a jobber, a JTTS, a mid card worker, a tag match or his program against Hogan. You got the feeling that he tried to make each match unique or as memorable as possible given the various constraints. Dibiase was more about getting his gimmick over, which was okay but there was a lot of repeated pre-match mic work, stooging, bumping and selling and schtick. Boss Man tended to sell in a more realistic way than Dibiase, though again he had the advantage of working face, and there wasn't the same problems with the lack of a middle to his matches. Dibiase had the better execution and sometimes Boss Man looked a bit ungainly, but Boss Man wrestled "in character" better both as a heel and face. It helped that he was a big man with big man offence and the odd surprise move, but Dibiase didn't bust out his offence enough despite having a sweet moveset. On the other hand, slow Boss Man matches with too much selling tended to be worse than bad Dibiase matches with too much stooging, nevertheless I would still take Boss Man over Dibiase at this point for general output.

Jerry, I think you should concede the point that the WWF story lines were spread out over multiple cards and not stacked on one show to the next. Even their PPVs were not that well built to during this era. They tended to focus on 3 main story lines while continuing to push various gimmicks on the undercard. The houseshows weren't only about Hogan, however. When I watch WWF house shows I see workers who were over and matches where the audience aren't off in droves taking some kind of break. Loss has mentioned how protected both Boss Man and Dibiase have been on the yearbooks and they're not the only ones. I started watching wrestling post-Wrestlemania IV and there were numerous angles and gimmicks relayed to us via Superstars. The WWF was not special in this respect, their gimmicks simply tendered to be more colorful. I think I would argue presentation over depth.

I'm getting there. I will wrap up Boss Man tomorrow, watch a bit more Dibiase and formulate my opinions all before lunch.

The British Bulldogs vs. Harley Race & Jesse Barr, 12/12/85 The only reason I watched this was to see Harley Race work with Dynamite Kid and I wasn't disappointed. It struck me as a potentially good match-up and it was every bit as physical as I'd hoped. I dig the Bulldogs during this time frame. They're almost Steiners-esque in terms of the offence they bring. Of course, they blow shit off and their selling is crap, but there's a time and a place for everything and that includes appreciating some pure offence.

Big Boss Man/Virgil vs. The Beverly Brothers, 2/18/92 I guess it was an ongoing joke between Sean Mooney and Lord Alfred Hayes to not know what the grudge was between the workers on a WWF grudge match tape. This was a perfectly useless bit of WWF tag wrestling. Sometimes I wonder why I bother watching these matches when the front office cared so little about having good matches and sometimes I wonder why the workers didn't try harder to have a smart 8-9 min match. Big Boss Man/Virgil vs. Money Inc, 10/22/91 I believe this may be the original Money Inc match. Historians should note that Money Inc very nearly broke up at the outset, but that Dibiase's money was able to sooth everything over. This had a FIP segment with Virgil, but it was pretty weak. Big Boss Man vs. Shawn Michaels, 10/13/92 Big Boss Man vs. Skinner, 7/20/92 Big Boss Man vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, Royal Rumble '93 Big Boss Man vs. Kato, 12/3/91 Big Boss Man vs. Papa Shango, 9/22/92 Big Boss Man vs. The Warlord, 11/11/91 and 2/17/92 These at least show Boss Man trying to do something with the amount of time he was given, but a cool spot here and there doesn't make for a match. In a lot of cases, the matches exist simply to fill in time before Nailz is rolled out. I have a hard time holding it against the workers that they couldn't produce anything compelling in such rubbish circumstances, but the better guys like Michaels and Skinners at least tried. I can't really give points for any of that, though, so through no fault of his own these have to go down as disappointing matches for the Boss Man.

Maybe, but Phil's only reviewed four matches from the period we're talking about and only one of them was a PPV match.

Regal's work on the big shows was often disappointing. He was generally better at the TV tapings, but even then the reason the Larry Z match blew my socks off during the Smarkschoice Poll was because it was a legitimately great Regal match.

Ted Dibiase vs. The Ultimate Warrior, The Main Event 11/23/90 This was brought up as a positive for Dibiase during the 1990 Yearbook. It's a decent TV match that's overshadowed by an awesome run-in from "The Macho King" Randy Savage. I would have dearly loved for Savage to have actually leapt over all those WWF officials. That would've been the spot that I would always remember Randy Savage for. The biggest thing the match had going for it was that it actually had a middle. It's a good thing too because it didn't have much of a finish, which made me wonder whether it had a middle because Dibiase knew Virgil was going to take Warrior's finish and there was going to be a run-in. Whatever the reason, Ted's offence was a lot more focused here. Warrior did some sunset flip attempts and a suplex oddly enough. His best matches always seem to be the ones where he tries different moves. I guess it impresses people. You can't say Vince didn't try to get him over either. He went to town at the end with his description of Warrior holding the living embodiment of the WWF to his chest.

Harley Race vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, AJPW 1/20/78 It's difficult to know how good this was with over half missing, but the action that's shown is pretty solid. Nothing remarkable, but they seemed to keep things moving despite the demands of working 60 minutes. Looks like there was a fair amount of boring matwork too, but you can almost forgive them for it with a time limit draw.

Cheers, I will re-watch it after I've gone through the other Boss Man stuff. Does anybody know why these guys were booked against each other when Boss Man had turned face during the Dibiase/Roberts feud?

Big Boss Man vs. Koko B Ware, MSG 10/24/88 and Los Angeles 10/16/88 The MSG match was a neat big man/little match that I was just getting into when Boss Man won with his sidewalk slam. Instead of those couple of extra minutes that would've made it memorable, the time was devoted to Boss Man cuffing Koko to the ring rope and abusing him the nightstick. Didn't they do that finish at SummerSlam? The LA match can't recapture the magic and Boss Man/Koko becomes a lost cause. Big Boss Man vs. Sam Houston, Boston 7/9/88 and Philly 7/23/88 These are matches I would point to to show Boss Man as a worker. They're competitive squashes that had no real reason to be as good as they were other than the fact that Boss Man was new to the company (and didn't know better?) and was trying to get over. The best thing about Boss Man in the WWF is that he would continually bust out offence you hadn't seen from him before even well into his face run. So many of the other guys had their set in stone movesets, but Boss Man was always pulling out a surprise. I loved the finish to the Philly match where Boss Man catches Houston coming off the top rope and turns it into a powerslam. Unfortunately, I can't find a Dibiase/Houston match to compare.

It's his dad.

Big Boss Man vs. Jake Roberts, Tokyo 4/13/90 On one hand, this may be one of both men's career best matches in the WWF. On the other hand, I may be overrating it because it took place in a different setting. I was all ready to log on here and proclaim how matches like this prove that the WWF style inhibited workers from having great matches and this was a glimpse of what these two might have been capable of if they'd worked for Turner at the time, but thinking about it some more, the character work wasn't that great, it took place outside of WWF storylines and there wasn't the same high spots you get from a typical WWF narrative, so I'd like somebody else to take a look at it and tell me if it was any good. Demolition vs. The Twin Towers, Boston 6/3/89 This was the Boston return match after the Twin Towers nearly walked away with the tag belts the last time they were in town. They couldn't quite recapture the magic of the April match, but this was still a good match. Smash played FIP this time and it was perfectly decent. Garvin was the ref here as with all guest refs he made a pain in the ass of himself, but overall the Twin Towers/Demolition dynamic worked well again.

For those of you who don't speak Bret Hart, that means "if he'd wrestled me, he would've had a great match."

The Package and it's not even close. Sting's gimmick sucked.

Aceman, now there's a name I've not heard in a long, long time.

Okay, but I'm not sure you get that from watching an match even one in English. You've got to read, watch and learn. But perhaps we can provide a supplement for the yearbooks. An explanation of 1990 would be handy since most of the build is cut from the yearbook.

Kung Fu turned on Atlantis during the same match that Satanico turned on Dandy. It happened on the 9/30/90 television show. It's not on the yearbook or Will's El Dandy comp for that matter. Presumably, there were a couple of trios after that where Kung Fu did nasty things to Altantis. He probably ripped or pulled off his mask at some point.

There isn't the same emphasis on mic work and promos in lucha that there is in US wrestling and when they do run angles they're often quite confusing. All you need to know is that these guys are the rudos, these guys are the technicos, these two are being programmed with each other and they're going to have either a title match or a wager match. It's not that different from the Memphis you enjoy; just substitute a loser leaves town match for a hair or mask match and you'll find that they might as well have been from the same mother. Once you're familiar with how a rudo or a technico generally behave, you'll find that you don't need a lot of backstory because the importance of the wager match is self-evident. After a while, you should be able to watch a hair match without any of the build and get it.

The first Lucha match I ever saw was a cibernetico. That is the absolute worst possible way to try and start watching Lucha and kept me from going back for years. I can't even imagine. I've been watching lucha for a few years now, but I've never seen a Cibernetico match. Yet I'm still mildly concerned about being able to make sense of what's happening when I see it. They're not terribly difficult to understand. The two famous ones from 1997 are really enjoyable. They're just big, multi-man elimination tags.

If Flair's true colours are wanting to prove he's the better man then I think it only applies to the times when he was a face. As a heel, winning proved he was the better man and Flair and his group would do anything to keep the belt. Deep into a match, you were supposed to believe that all his talk was false bravado and that he was afraid of being shown up for what he truly was.

The Big Boss Man vs. The Mountie, Green Bay 5/7/91, Montreal 8/16/91, SummerSlam '91 8/26/91 Since these guys were both former law enforcement officers, I guess that makes The Mountie the Boss Man's arch enemy, right? Macho Man gives me the hard sell on the manager cam in the first match. I kind of like the manager cam as a novelty. Gives you an idea of how much yapping the managers do during the match. The Montreal match is a decent houseshow match. They do some fairly standard houseshow stuff to pop the crowd. It's in Canada so Rougeau is in civvies rather than the Mountie uniform. The heat for this match is pretty incredible even if the work is unspectacular. The SummerSlam match is disappointing. Boss Man cut the most awesome promo on Prime Time after The Mountie and Jimmy Hart jumped him, but the match fails to deliver on that intensity. Instead of having a proper brawl, they deliver a pretty pedestrian Coliseum Video style match. I was hoping for more from this feud.

Bruiser Brody/Stan Hansen vs. Harley Race/Dick Slater, AJPW 12/2/82 This could've been so much better, but I suppose that's like saying the Brody/Hansen team should've been a whole lot better. I mainly watched this to imagine how good a Race/Hansen match might be, but it was hard to tell from the limited exchanges they had. Brody and Race no-selling each other's body slams sucked. All Japan brawls seem to suck in general. I'm starting to think that I don't like watching Harley in Japan.

Hart Foundation vs. Twin Towers, Duluth, MN 5/17/89 This was your typical BS Hart Foundation match. Bret played face in peril practically the entire match, which I tried telling his fans he liked to do but they wouldn't listen. Anyway, he played FIP, but there as no double teaming from the Twin Towers, no cutting Bret off from his corner, no instances of Anvil distracting the referee or any sort of hope spot before the tag; nothing that you generally associate with FIP tag wrestling, even the WWF version of it. The finish was a count out and Bret made it count by doing his pescado. The Hart Foundation then roughed Slick up a bit and handcuffed him to the ropes. In a brilliant bit of psychology, Bret dropped the keys to the cuffs down his trunks. It's that kind of micro detail that made him such a master storyteller. Twin Tower vs. Demolition, Boston 4/22/89 This was really good. Demolition were over like mofos in Boston. Axe played the FIP in this and it was as close to proper FIP wrestling as you generally get in the WWF. They ran through all the staples of double teaming and ref distraction and cut Axe off from his corner. The work itself was pretty good. If you don't like Demolition's clubbing offence you might not feel like coming along for the ride, but I honestly thought this went beyond the blueprint of "hey, these guys are using good structure" into the realm of actually being a good match. It falls apart a wee bit towards the end, but not enough to curb my enthusiasm.