Tim Cooke

Here is Dave's mid-decade buy rate article from the 2/14/05 WON https://www.dropbox.com/s/buuzq42b6s9r6in/2...9%20PARTIAL.pdf

My take on Angle in 2000 is similar to Loss: he was a good rookie with a lot of potential. But then he fell off the cliff when he bought into the go-go-go work rate featured on Smackdown in 2002.

Is this online? Guessing no

Have you watched the two Mascaras vs. Destroyer matches from 1973/1974?

vs Mascarita Sagrada Jr (09/14/96 - AAA)

Punk talks in all of his matches. It's part of the charm. You will never see a great Punk match if the spot calling bothers you.

Great match, hadn't heard it talked about at all prior to Loss watching it. Finish sucks but the rest is excellent. Steamboat was very fired up and Austin was up for the challenge. How WCW missed what they had in Austin is another one of those wrestling "what if's?"

Burning money because they put Cena over Lesnar.

ROH's attempts to not use face in peril in tag matches has made almost all of their tag matches either forgettable or just bad. Face in peril can be used incorrectly, but ROH's use of going against it doesn't showcase it's flaws.

I wonder if this is the original aceman?

Show was fine - it was the match order that was the issue. If you didn't think HHH/Taker were going to get 55 minutes for their segment, then you don't have a good grasp on this promotion. If Punk/Jericho opens the show, I think it is almost a guarantee that they get more heat for more than the finish. HHH/Taker was plodding to start and then the bad acting from Shawn was funny. I agree with whoever said they didn't buy the near falls this year. I did like the hells gate on the steps with the HHH powerbomb escape. But they needed those steps or else there was no way Taker was being lifted up. I liked Rock/Cena and don't really get the hate. It wasn't ***** (though nothing this weekend was on any show) but it was a good WrestleMania main event. Punk/Jericho is the match that got shafted by the HHH/Taker sucking up all the heat. The finishing sequence of reversals, something that can be very annoying, was very well executed, especially from two guys whose execution can be suspect. The Danielson match worked for the storyline and his character. It may have pissed people off but it was the best heel in the company getting fucked with because of his actions over the past two months. Kayfabe wise, it worked. Now how they follow this up is still to be seen and they could easily not rebuild him well but we won't know that until it happens.

The Fujii vs. Yoshida match may be the greatest hybrid grappling/mma but still is a pro wrestling match ever. Puts the hype of Josh Barnett NYE 2011 match to shame.

From Phil's list, these are my favorites: Mike Mayhem vs. Low-Ki (FWA 4/15/00) - Ki's first great match and really well put together. Lots of selling, which is strange for the time period. Red vs. Low-Ki (UCW 9/14/01) - super fast, almost movie like spots that are being done the first time without the ability for retakes American Dragon vs. Low-Ki (JAPW 6/7/02) - my favorite Ki/Danielson match. Worked shoot style and would have fit into RINGS in the late 90's, that's how good it was

Had never seen the Ohtani/Tajiri match either. Excellent. Flash pins don't always need to come from roll up's.

Jason Jett wrestled in ROH in December 2002 and as previously mentioned was in HWA in 2001-2002.

John - are these old results for 1960's/1970's AJPW online or do you have them compiled through different sources?

Trying this out for Japanese MMA 2002: Carlos Newton vs. Pele (PRIDE) Rumina Sato vs. Takumi Nakayama (Shooto) Antonio Rogerio Noguiera vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (DEEP) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Ikuhisa Minowa (DEEP) Royce Gracie vs. Hidehiko Yoshida (PRIDE) Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera vs. Bob Sapp (PRIDE) Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Don Frye (PRIDE) Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Mirko CroCop (PRIDE)

I was always very much amused with Ventura on commentary in WCW, especially when he would provoke Tony or Ross on purpose. But like Keith said, I'm not sure that qualifies for HOF.

Jimmy Hart is someone who should have been automatically placed in 1996 by John and Dave. It was an oversight - it happens. I don't see ANY comparison between Hart and Tony Schiavone. Just because Tony worked for the NWA from 1985 to 1988 and then 1990 - 2001 doesn't equal HOF. Longevity is only one factor and he was so horrifically bad from 1998-2001 that anything good (which would need to be defined and I'm someone who isn't totally down on Shiavonie). Same with Okerlund. Okerlund was a complete detriment to WCW from 1998 until they stopped using him. Monsoon has nothing on Jimmy Hart or Lance Russell for historical impact, longevity, ability to draw (in Hart's case as a draw, in Russell's case as the key guy helping get the people into the arena by helping to sell the story). Finkel, maybe. I can see at least arguing a case.

I certainly favor different moves over others. Swinging neck breaker, backbreaker, tilt-a-whirl slam, flying cross body, old school flying headscissors all win points with me during a match but they don't make or break a match.

Most modern US indy guys have WAY too many moves. Like Loss said, it's very much a matter of fitting into the bigger picture. Lawler worked virtually the entire 12/30/85 Loser Leaves Town match against Dundee selling or firing back with punches. He may have used a pile driver but I'm not certain. And that match tells as good of a story, has heat, bumps, selling, etc. as any match.

Ricky Morton had plenty of standard face spots, specifically double teams. Double hip toss, leap frog combo spots with Gibson, hurricanrana, flying body press (both at ground level and off the top rope). Weaker Morton/RnR Express matches tended to be when they didn't have good heels to stooge for them to open up the match and/or when they would use their early offensive segment laying around in side headlock takeovers/arm drags.

It's always fun when you watch someone go through the various stages in life and make it, whether it's a low baseball draft pick who makes it through the system to the big league club and is successful or this situation, seeing both Punk and Danielson work their way through the lower echelon of wrestling to WWE champions.