rainmakerrtv

I meant "later" relative to his work in PNW (assuming it was the same guy). I never knew he was in the WWF . Then again, that particular time period is a bit of a blank spot for me. I just found it a bit strange as, before they became an official group, you would see the future horsemen on occasion teaming with the likes of Bob Roop or Buddy Landell. Once they formed, it was pretty much all Horsemen, all the time. Then Bam, out of nowhere, one time only, Steve Regal. Watching this for the second time, I notice Ole was pretty much on the shelf right at the start of the group. I think the first time on the set I hear the words "Four Horsemen" are when they are discussing Ole being taken out of action, or at the very least right before it. Sombody else can put together the actual numbers, but it seems like the longest lasting version of the Horsemen was actually the Three Horsemen of Flair, Arn and Tully (with three periods, the time after Dusty broke Ole's leg, the time when Ole was MIA and Lex was trying to get in, and the post-Lex pre-Barry period), or at least fairly close to the duration of the Lex Horsemen.

Just touching on one point of jdw's post : Looking back on it now, for all that Hogan's big WWF run started with a title win over Sheik and ended with a title loss to Yokozuna, I am hard pressed to think of too many main Hogan storylines in between that were based on jingoistic patriotism. I don't think Volkoff or the Sheik got more than isolated shots, most of the main foreign heels he faced (Kamala, Killer Khan, Dino Bravo) there didn't seem to be a big "USA! USA!" element to them. For all that two of his biggest feuds were against a "Scotsman" and a Frenchman, the first was about Piper being an obnoxious devious asshole and the second was about Hogan's unbeatable huge best friend turning on him. The most jingoistic storyline of that run was not against a foreign wrestler, but rather an American turncoat (Sgt. Slaughter).

Ok, now I just find this bizarre. Tully Blanchard is facing George South and Rocky Kernodle in a random TV match while teaming with *Steve Fricking Regal*! First of all, at this point you usually didn't see the Horsemen teaming with non-Horsemen (at least Leo Burke showing up later made sense as a hired gun to go after Garvin when they were readying a sneak attack). Secondly, I didn't even know Mr. Electricity had ever worked for Crockett. is there some sort of abandonned storyline I don't know about where Regal was trying to get into the Horsemen or something? It just seems so out of the blue. Tangents : A) Is the Steve Regal who shows up in the Buddy Rose set the same "Mr. Electricity" Steve Regal who later worked in the AWA? They really don't look much alike. Is it just me, or were the four Horsemen not really 100% a team until after Ole left? Once they formed, they wouldn't team with outsiders for the most part, but they still seemed to be 3 distinct sub-units (Flair, Tully, the Andersons) who were buddies that looked out for each other rather than an all the way unified force. Maybe it was just JJ. You never saw him out with just Flair or the Andersons, he was either there when Tully was or not at all. Once Lex came in , then you would see him coming to the ring with any of the Four Horsemen.

For a prime example, check out the DVDVR best of the 80s WWF set. Hulk Hogan pounds on Don Muraco for several minutes, Muraco throws the salt, DQ, end of match. Or any WWF matches where the time limit just rings out of nowhere, with no warning and no real place in the flow of the match. It's as though the matches didn't really end, they just stopped happening, if you get my distinction.

Just mentioning a few positive things I have to say about Hogan that haven't been mentioned yet : The Paul Orndorff heel turn/feud had a very cool and interesting storyline. Hulk Hgan put in a lot of work for charity and PR and by all accounts was great with meeting kids for Make A Wish, in stark contrast to what I hear about Ultimate Warrior. Any Hulk Hogan character in the better wrestling video games (particularly Fire Pro) is a whole lot of fun to play. I was never a Hulk booster, but loved whalloping people with Axe Bombers and dropping the Big Leg on them.

I thought Tammy Fytch in SMW was awesome .. excelent heel for the territory.

OK, I'm clueless - how can I get a copy of the Buddy Rose set? Contact goodhelmet, it's right up there with his Dick Murdoch and Barry Windham sets (granted I already loved Barry going into that set.)

Now I'm depressed, because I have just finished the Buddy Rose set and now there is no more Buddy Rose to watch

I am pretty sure that Cheetah Kid in WCW was before Prince Iaukea. He was distinctly more cut in his physique than Rocco Rock, so I am pretty sure it wasn't Ted Petty. Cheetah Master was a completely different guy, he had long blonde hair and I don't think he ever wore a mask.

I thought that particular Cheetah Kid was Prince Iaukea .

For more recent guys, I really like Michael Elgin. His matches tend to be highpoints of the C*4 shows I have gone to.

I love the Polish Prince! His "Working Man's Robin Hood" promo from the middle of the Lonnie Mayne match is officially one of my all time favorites.

I'd have to disagree in this case, as it was an angle loss. If he had been pinned by Zhukov, that would be bad. But here he lost by DQ when Zhukov's ex-partner attacked him. The loss is not significant, as the match was just a backdrop to the feuding ex-partners.

Hmmm, I thought he was down to JTTS level, he was in the WM2 battle royal but at the Big Event he jobbed out pretty quickly to Harley Race. I looked it up on Wikipedia, though, and it looks like he made it all the way to the finals of the King Of The Ring that year, so I guess he still had some name value at that point. There's a level above the JTTS. The wrestler who is over but in the midcard. He is not getting pushed. While the JTTS puts over a wrestler in a single match, the next level of wrestler puts the other over in a feud. Usually to set up a feud against a higher wrestler. Thinking of Chief Jay Strongbow in the 1970s, Jake Roberts in the 1980s, Santana in the early '90s. The JTTS match is rarely hyped. Usually it's filler. Sure, I was thinking Morales was a JTTS but on further research he would be more at lower level midcard. You see him getting the IC title shot and deep in your heart of hearts you know he isn't getting the belt but you still cheer for him. Sort of like when the British Bulldogs were getting the title shots against Demoliton as they were winding down their run. With the JTTS, the ending is just a foregone conclusion and that's it.

What do you mean by Bravo being a special case ? I'm intrigued. They seemed to protect him, possible for Canada. I'd have to run through his results, but he seemed to do fewer jobs than you'd expect for a WWF heel of his level. Similar guys did lots of jobs as the WWF usually was about making the fans happy and not much into protecting heels. John I watched the Montreal French WWF broadcasts in the late 80s and I recall they gave him a full on main event angle that ran across several house shows that was not referenced on the other TV shows so that kind of backs up what jdw is saying.

Hmmm, I thought he was down to JTTS level, he was in the WM2 battle royal but at the Big Event he jobbed out pretty quickly to Harley Race. I looked it up on Wikipedia, though, and it looks like he made it all the way to the finals of the King Of The Ring that year, so I guess he still had some name value at that point.

A bit off track, but I was just thinking of how many JTTS matches there were at the WWF Big Event in Toronto. I know it wasn't a PPV, just a large card that went to video, but I would have figured they would have kept the level of people on the show a bit higher. Mike Sharpe, Pedro Morales, Tony Garea (apparantly subbing for Tony Atlas, but I don't think his position was a whole lot higher than Garea and god, what a hideous match that would have been). No Savage, no Piper, no Harts, no Bulldogs, no Volkoff and Sheik. Were they running another show at the same time?

Didn't he also tag with Andre at least once against the Heenan Family? Yeah, I guess then he would be more JTTS. Was Lanny Poffo for any significant period JTTS rather than upper level jobber? He was pretty much just a job guy when I got back into watching wrestling , but in more recently seeing footage from slightly before that period, I did see he was in at least one notable angle match however peripherally (a 6 man with the Can-Am Express vs the Dream Team and Adrian Adonis that laid some ground work for the later Brutus Beefcake face turn.)

I get what you are saying, but I would still consider SD a full on high level jobber. I recall somebody doing a search for any SD victories, and only found a couple, which were pretty clearly jobber vs jobber matches on house shows. For me, the JTTS would get regular squash match victories on the TV shows, but when the higher lever guys had matches with them on a TV show, you had no doubt that the JTTS was going to lose. To put this in a bit of perspective : I first watched WWF wrestling in 1985, between Wrestlemania and WM2, then stopped when they changed around the tv shows on our local station, then started up again in 1987 around Survivor Series and have been watching wrestling ever since. Now, that first period of watching wrestling had a bit of a warped perspective. First of all, one of the shows I watched I was convinced was AWA, but it was actually Quebec International, because of the presence of AWA champions Rick Martel and the Road Warriors. But the WWF show was particularly bizarre because it was Maple Leaf Wrestling, which was a Canadian only WWF show (when I started watching again in 1987, it was the same show as Superstars). On this show (which I later found out was taped in Hamilton), guys who were jobbers in the rest of the WWF were a lot higher level. Lanny Poffo, George Wells, even Steve Gatorwolf, all regularly won matches. I was actually distressed when I visited my grandparents who got WWF shows from the US and saw George Wells (of whom I was a big fan) as part of a jobbing tag team. In this environment, I still never saw SD Jones win a match (although he did get a couple of interview segments).

JTTS is a hardcore fan term as far as I know. Don't recall if it was in some of the newsletters before it hit the usenet (rec.sport.pro-wrestling). Jobber is of course a term wrestlers use and didn't come from the sheets or usenet. Folks came up with JTTS to describe the SD Jones type of jobber, though years after SD ran his course. John SD Jones always seemed more of a full on jobber rather than JTTS, albeit a high level one with name recognition. I'd figure the JTTS as more Tito Santana post-Strike Force, or Hillbilly Jim in his later years.

I loved the very finish, has anyone else (Eddie?) used the "trick your opponent into thinking the ref has counted three" finish since this?

What is the difference between the Tiger Suplex '85 and the Tequila Sunrise suplex.