El-P

Awesome show, there's no two ways around it. Kiss entrance was great. Match was kinda tentative at times but still good and Sonny is really improving his game. He can be a future star, no doubt. Enjoying all the small teases with Tully. FTR vs Lucha Bros was a very good TV match with a smart finish that protects the LB. Hope to see them get a classic on a big show. Jurassik Express vs The Elite was just a great, great match. They made Marko Stunt look like a total star and legit threat here. Jungle Boy is crazy good. The other three are the other three, what can you say, they have showed repetitively that they are awesome TV workers. Omega showing signs of Cleaner insanity, that's interesting. Really, the whole Omega/Page/Bucks is the most compelling storyline of the last year. Long term stuff. Jericho's angle was classic shit. Ortiz not able to ever get up was the icing on the cake. The aim of the drop was absolutely, well, drop dead perfect. And really, Jericho calling himself the Demo God is an ultimate fuck you to idiots on Twitter going insane because of ratings. Hilarious stuff. Enjoying the Nightmare Sisters stuff on Dark already, glad they made it on the main show. Ok, so it's Vickie. Whatever, I'm indifferent, maybe it'll be good, hopefully not too silly which would not fit Nyla. On the other hand.... IVELISSE next week ! YES ! Finally my girl from LU gets back ! Very happy with this. Cage vs Mox was really good and it was obvious to anyone who has followed Cage for years that he's been working with a lot of restraint, not doing a whole lot of the big acrobatic moves he did before (Jericho even mentioned it), which is very smart. Also, again a very smart finish as Cage is protected despite losing. Darby is back, great stuff. This was a Perfect, or very close to it, as far a special weekly TV show. Only Schiavone would have made it even better.

Except he doesn't understand that Cage does need Taz, at the very least for now. Cage is not a good promo nor a great personality (in the ring at least). He does need someone who cuts strong promos on his side (like Taz in AEW) or on the other side to trigger him and the emotional reactions of the fans (like Sami Callihan did in IMPACT where he really made Cage look better than he ever had in term of a character, also thanks to Melissa Santos).

You wanna talk about it ?

I've followed how Dave has handled the various cases he talked about on WOR over the weeks and it is not the case at all.

What ? Thorough investigation that is taking actual time and work ? WTF is that ? Can't he just tweet something like NOW and point fingers at someone instead ?!

He screwed up a bunch of spots during the match, and it's not like EVIl is a guy who works super fast or intense. He gave me the impression of someone who's on the verge of falling apart at times.

I reserve more comments before I actually hear what Dave said, because he had done a fair job on the issue thus far. The Ospreay case itself is not exactly clear cut either. But that's neither here nor there. I'll only say this : online bullying is online bullying. People are doing it because they hide behind keyboards and feel justified to do so, because they feel they are on the "right side", whatever the side be. You can't draw a line between "good victims" and "bad victims", because if you do, then it becomes ok if the person being bullied is being bullied "for good reasons". Except it's not. That's why the SJW acronym is so problematic, because it does comes of the alt-right spheres and is used mostly by those people, but it is actually pretty accurate in describing the actual phenomenon. So you can't really use it (unless you're alt-right), but you have to tiptoe around the notion because it is actually a really fair one in many cases. Again, not heard what Meltz *actually* said yet. I would be surprised he said both were "the same thing" without adding layers of complexity to the whole thing, because that's what he has done thus far on the matter (which some people don't like, because complexity is the enemy of social medias, who can't tweet in complexity). Once I do listen, I'll see. On this topic, everyone should watch M, by Fritz Lang. Still as accurate today as it ever was.

Loyalty to what ? A company that barely even exists ? It's not exactly Tanahashi never leaving NJPW, ever... Yeah, probably not. Big fish in the small pond is not the worst spot. But considering the situation, I don't see the NWA, who don't have a regular roster and not even one creative hand right now (Lagana was it, basically) running anytime soon. MLW isn't doing it, ROH isn't doing it... Does not sound too good to me.

It didn't strike me but it's possible. Yeah, Tana looked shot too honestly but he can still pull off enough and he's so great at selling that he gets by. Naito's super explosive style is really hurting now. The guy should Chono his way into cult figure doing one or two simple moves a match at this point...

That would be ridiculous, he's only 33. The NWA doesn't mean anything. I honestly don't really care one way or another because although he's a great promo, I find him to be kind of a dullard in the ring, but really he's got too much potential star power to remain with a non-existing promotion if things don't develop much further.

Takagi vs SHO was awesome. The tag-team title match was also excellent bordering great, and honestly Taichi is stepping up like crazy. The main event... well... Needless to say it was way too long. I'm really not a fan of american style booking in NJPW with ref-bumps and run-ins galore. It works at times, but when it's in every big Bullet Club match... yawn. Plus, the "Bushi" spot got a totally tedious reaction, with good reasons, and it was total overkill, and made the ending of the match totally anti-climatic one, especially after the downer ending of the tag team match. So yeah, the reveal of Dick Togo was kinda cool (I mean, it's 2020 and he's gonna probably be in some Gedo role, so nothing to be super excited about either), but his spot hurt the ending a whole lot to me. Yeah, no one needs even 25 minutes EVIL matches. That is maybe THE big flaw in NJPW where every title match has to go ridiculously long no matter what because that's expected. 15-20 minutes titles match is ok. The one thing that struck me is that Naito is really not looking healthy at all. Screws up spots left and right. Really looks to be banged up as hell, and that's after months of lay-off... So maybe his time has flown away already and the best thing is to have him be a tragic figure, because the Ace he'll never be at this point (and maybe his character doesn't translate well in that role anyway). That's saying a lot about what he actually brings to the table, because what does Pieter do apart from some stripper's moves before the match ? But yeah... No idea who wants to see a Yujiro "push" in 2020... In comparison, Taichi is absolutely fine without Miho Abe (especially now), she just makes the act better. Yep. And hopefully it is, because I really have trouble buying what he's selling me with this EVIL push.

I wasn't aware about Zicky Dice, but wasn't every talent "released" anyway for the time being due to COVID ? Yeah, not really a big surprise, and honestly this project never felt like it was a viable one. Now, if really this thing is done, if I'm AEW, I'm throwing money toward Kamille & Nick Aldis now, although I could totally see WWE want both of them. Thunder Rosa would be a really good catch for anyone too, especially AEW (WWE really doesn't need anymore really good women). Dice would feel right in either IMPACT or AEW. Is there anyone else that wasn't an old TNA/IMPACT guy (like Storm, Drake or Anderson) ?

So, Tony Khan was a guest on Eric Bischoff's podcast and was all about how he was a fan of WCW and learned so much from it. Two funny quotes from Uncle Eric : When Khan talked about how he studied Nitro from 96 to 98 : Eric : "Stay away from WCW 1999 at all cost !" When Khan said he actually asked a question during an old Prodigy chat, Bischoff popped. Then Khan said "You did not draw enough to keep Prodigy alive though." to which Eric replied "I didn't draw enough to keep WCW alive !" Honestly, I wouldn't mind to have Eric as a guest on Dynamite at some point. He's always a great performer no matter what and it would be cool to see him appear on what really is the followup to Nitro in many ways.

Did Corny address his (supposedly) own piss-poor booking of the match ? Because these two restarts fucked the match up as much as anything. Just a terrible idea.

That's beyond his control. Everyone who had great potential before WWE has been swallowed by the machine. Think of when Ricochet was in Lucha Underground, people thought of him as the next big thing in a Rey Mysterio way. He's a complete nobody today. FTR have to rebuild themselves in AEW because although everyone knows how good they actually are, they have been hurt by years of nothingness.

There's a cultish aspect in WWE corporate culture, for sure. Brainwashing is in effect. "Our chairman, our CEO, our leader".... Totally agree with this and what @sek69 is saying here. Try to say anything and you'll get shit from virtue signalers with agendas (they have showed up during #speakingout also, and pretty quickly) because complex issues aren't to be discussed. Complexity is banned from social medias.

That disqualifies pretty much everything he has to say after that point. Being such a corporate drone especially when you're in a position of power where *you* can pretty much choose to not come (while others don't have that same pull) is so pathetic.

Can't wait to hear the Old Bucks talk about those pesky kids not knowing how to work and doing way too much 450 splashes as set-ups moves.

This is my entire point (first reply I made : "Sure, he can't POSSIBLY think current pro-wrestling is good. "). It took a whole lot to get you to that point. Like pulling teeth, really. You could have saved us both some time and energy. Maybe he was. So what if he was ? Like I said before, both are not mutually exclusive. Honestly, it's not even important at all, really. Like I said, I don't need validation from anyone, unlike the crowd of goofs who hangs on to every word Corny says (and I totally agree about him working them like the marks they are : hate-watching is dumb enough, but listening to someone hate-watch is even dumber, life is short people). It was just a cool little tidbit to me. But the idea that *he could not possibly* thought this match was great struck me as a case of denial. I'm aware these are workers (doh ! really now ?). But as pro-wrestlers, I also believe they might actually have a genuine opinion on pro-wrestling and do enjoy, still, some of it (like Steve Austin was clearly still a mark for wrestling long after he was gone). And that was about it. And again, with that last statement, you are again inferring stuff that isn't there, because for some reason, it seems like Ricky Morton saying shit like "This AEW match was great" kinda bothers you in a way (maybe because he's not saying the "right thing" to you ? I dunno). I personally find it cool. I don't find it important, at all. I don't download Morton's podcast (I even ignored he had one), I certainly don't download Corny's podcast. If Morton was not genuine, well, ok. It will have exactly zilch effect on my own appreciation on things.

One issue with Flair is that is was always the champ despite never really beating anyone decisively. A lot of Flair matches had very weak, anti-climatic endings.

That makes sense.

Agreed, but wasn't the world champ on National TV too at some point ? I mean in the 80's with Flair ? Of course, it's one thing to have "a heel champ" on your TV every week, it's another thing to have Ric Flair on your TV every week cutting those promos. That plays an important part too. HHH cosplaying Ric Flair was problematic because he was a heel that destroyed everyone but also because he was fucking HHH cutting those boring 20 minutes promos and having boring-ass overlong matches all the time.

Like I said. Does that mean he *can't possibly* have thought this was a great match ? Yes or no ? Because that's the only issue here. What's funny is that your reply is inferring that it is impossible because of the nature of who Ricky Morton is. It is not a "ironic rebuttal". It is presented as an opinion, an aesthetic judgement on the match, and because of whom presents said opinion, it will drive some people nuts. If there's some irony somewhere, it's in how those people react to this statement. Like say, pretend that it *can't possibly* be genuine. It reminds me some argument with some professional movie critic that got told by an angry audience member that he *could not have really enjoyed that movie* and had some ulterior motives and professional bias to say that. That just *could not* be true. No idea how you say it in English, but in French we call that a "procès d'intention" (trial of intent). This is exactly what you're doing here. As far as turning the thing into an angle, be serious now. Corny worked everyone with his Sami Callihan bashing. This is where I lost the last bit of respect I had for him, because I knew he was full of shit and outdated, but I did not realize him being full of shit was actually full of shit in itself. So maybe, when Corny says he hates the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega, maybe he's also lying and dishonest about it because that's what his audience wants from him. Maybe, just like Ricky Morton *can't possibly* have loved this match, maybe, just maybe, Jim Cornette secretly loves Kenny Omega and the Bucks (as he should, because he makes his money from dragging their name into the mud). Yeah, you've convinced me. Ricky Morton is working and did not love that match. And Corny is actually an Omega & Bucks fan.

Case in point : let's say Ricky Morton gets a gig with AEW tomorrow. Does that proves anything about his tweet being dishonest (aka he did not think that match was awesome and does not love watching current pro-wrestling) or having ulterior motives ? Of course not, because like I said, it is not mutually exclusive. He can think that match is great, tweet about it, and get a gig with AEW. Now, if he gets a gig with AEW, does anyone thinks it's because he fucking made a tweet ? Of because he's Ricky Morton, has contact in the company already (hey, he worked for them already... wait so maybe he's just a shill, like Meltzer of something... hum...), is considered a great trainer/mentor, is a legend and whatnot ? No... probably will be because he wrote a tweet saying "Awesome match". Yeah, probably that...

You said "Morton knows where his bread his buttered". Which is inferring that Morton is dishonest in his praise because he has ulterior motives, in this case the idea of getting either booking or student, or more specifically making himself look good in the eyes of people who could eventually book him or young aspiring workers that would be fans of the current product that would want to train at his school. That's assuming a simple tweet about a match that actually happened two-three days ago (and not a story about something from "back in the days", that's also important) would actually have a direct or indirect effect about his actual business, either as a performer or a trainer. All of that in the context of a thread which is basically about an old guy who is hate-watching the current product and refers to the 80's as the epitome of pro-wrestling and how it "should be done", Ricky Morton being basically everything "good" about the "right way". So, by inferring that Morton *has to* be dishonest about his praise of a match that happened two days ago, you are actually saying a whole lot more than just "oh, wrestler tells bullshit". And it's very much apparent what you really mean, especially when you make it about "he said something you want to hear". First off, like I said, I don't need any validation. And second, well, it's more about him saying something that you *don't want* to hear from him apparently. Because why that remark anyway ? Is there a credible way to gauge the sincerity of Morton's appreciation for this match from that tweet ? Apparently there is, and it's "wrestlers tell bullshit". Especially works when they say something some people *don't want to hear*... So yeah. It is a matter of subjective taste like NintendoLogic said, but even then, some people would just rather be grasping at straws to find ulterior motives about anything rather than even consider that Ricky Morton might have, crazy notion, actually loved that match and thought it is great. Because that very notion threatens their opinions and bias because of what Ricky Morton represents in their eyes. Which is why those tweets were posted in this very thread in the first place, because people believe Corny is gonna blows a gasket over that one, just because of who said it.