El-P

Yeah, I understood what he said a bit later, but wasn't gonna edit my post. Ok, I got it. But the sentence as it was first struck me as random as fuck and quite amusing. "CM Punk, SAmoe Joe, Arcade Fire, same thing" ! Yeah, I know, but I always found that analogy kinda simplistic. Also it was funny to me that the supposed "cutting-edge" promotion in term of pop-culture reference has a "grunge" looking-like character debut in... 1995 (same yeah WWF debuted Rad Radford BTW).

Yes. Because relevance has nothing to do with numbers. For instance, IMPACT probably has the second best woman's roster on the american market today. They get the most out of their roster, in a way that is modern and current. They are employing people, workers there get the opportunity to work, refresh themselves, be creative and improve. Taya Walkyrie coming off her stint in IMPACT is ten times better than she was 5 years before. Tessa Blanchard has demonstrated there how great a worker she is and that she could have great intergender matches. Etc etc.. Yes, they are relevant in today's pro-wrestling landscape. Niche, under the radar, but relevant, yes. FTR were on Jericho's podcast weeks ago. Corny only gets them when they showed up in the promotion he hates watch. I was a fan of Cornette forever and have defended him for years when it wasn't "fashionable". The fact I like him or not in this argument is, well, irrelevant. We're talking about his though process and what he is doing today. Which, is, by all means, totally irrelevant to the current pro-wrestling landscape. Case in point, a large part of his audience, the new part at least, is exactly what ? People who don't watch or hate watch (the stupidest thing ever BTW) pro-wrestling in 2020. So yeah. IRRELEVANCE. Negative feelings and emotions are always more easier to channel. And they don't take much thought either. But yeah, it's incredible to me too, although I'm partly responsible by taking part in the same argument over and over again. Yeah. Corny has become a troll. He's Trump, right. And that's sad.

I understand that. But like I said, that does not mean what Corny has to say is relevant to how things actually work in 2020. I took the exemple of the guys who say hip-hop is not real music, and there are still people to this day who think that way. Are they relevant to pop music culture ? No. Are they relevant to the pop culture industry ? No. Having people agree with something doesn't make it relevant. To me that's not a good argument to establish the relevance of a thought process. I see your point. We just don't have the same understanding of the term then. And to be clear, the fact Corny doesn't work in a pro-wrestling company is not why he isn't relevant to me. I was thinking about Prichard and people have already mentioned him, but there's a real question about whether Brucie is relevant or not in today's landscape. Of course with his status in the biggest company in the world, one might be tempted to say yes, if only because of his power (to say yes to the boss, but still). But really, when you think about it, he probably isn't relevant at all. Don Callis & Scott D'Amore are much more relevant considering the product they are putting out, despite the fact it's under the radar. So it's not really a matter of being inside the industry rather than how they think about it. Of course I was pushing it a bit. Yeah, he's been doing the collectibles for a while now and he was doing well years before he became the official AEW Hater. The fact remains he is doing more buzz now because of it. And yeah, it's kinda funny (especially if you're Omega or the Bucks, because you're making money even for people who hate you, how's that for being draws ?), and yeah it's carny as fuck.

Kinda too late. I guess since AEW did it first they did not want to do it. Speaking of business as usual, what is coming off of the whole Saudi-TV lawsuit really seem to indicate that the situation was really fucked up, like it's been said. It truly is an insane story. Amazed that it had so few repercussions thus far.

Flat earthers youtubers are "relevant" to flat earthers. That doesn't make them relevant to the actual world nor to science.

A live performance edited out of his botched spots isn't the same thing at all as a final product that had retakes edited inside the structure of a match. Edited matches were all over the place in the VHS days (it also made them super tricky to judge back then because you did not know what was edited out). Just like matches joined in progress from NJ and AJ TV, where sometimes you'd juts get the hot work to the finish and did not see what was maybe a super mediocre ten first minutes. The word I was looking for as match as this match goes is "disingenuous". They cut and edited and did retakes to present what "seem to be" a normal pro-wrestling match, with enough obvious fakery (crowd noise and such) to underline the fact it's not. Like I said before, and maybe I'm totally overthinking this and giving waaaaaaaay to much credit to WWE, and maybe it's all Edge & Orton themselves after all, to me this was kind of the point. Hence the whole thing about the Greatest Match Ever. In a way it's actually totally brillant, conceptually speaking, if not exactly pleasing. As far as execution goes, I'll leave you the judges, apparently some thought it was great, some clearly did not.

Except that's totally different. Hell, Edge got injured shooting a "retake". This match is a cinematic match passing itself for a real one, with some meta elements put into it (Finkel's voice, the piped-in chants in an arena devoid of real crowd). So maybe it was great, maybe it wasn't, but it sure wasn't a "real" wrestling match and should not be judged as such. I'd rather have true nonsense, out there cinematic stuff like Taker vs AJ Styles or the Stadium Stampede rather than a fake "great pro-wrestling match". But coming from WWE, the idea of a "pro-wrestling match" being enough in itself for a cinematic version almost reeks of irony, which I guess was also the point.

There's one honest question though. If Jim Cornette had been talking solely about old pro-wrestling history in the last few years, would he have as much downloads ? I have honestly no idea, but I highly doubt it. When he was doing the KC Back to the Territories videos and when his podcast was barely following the modern product a few years ago, apart from a few digs here and there on Trip, he wasn't the talk of the Internet at all. I know because I was a very regular listener. Why he is suddenly so popular with a certain fanbase ? Because he's hate watching AEW and shits on it and gets buzz from it. Let's be honest, Cornette today is a satellite of AEW, not to say a parasite. He knows he gets a lot more buzz and downloads and revenues by saying shit about Omega and the Bucks than if he was just talking about the Portland territory in the late seventies. Without these guys to hate on, Corny is "just" a respected historian and great storyteller and host on KC. Corny knows where his bread is buttered. If he makes more money now than ever before, well, good for him, but he should thanks Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks and Tony Khan then. If they aren't around, Corny has no hype whatsoever. His occasional rants about modern stuff on his podcast didn't get nearly as much hype before AEW existed. He was also an occasional guest on Meltzer's show and it was always really fun and interesting too, because he had not turned himself into a self-parody and talked about the things he loved. Hating on Omega, the Bucks and basically AEW is what sells Corny's podcast today. Talking about AEW is what makes Corny's show relevant to his audience. Hell, he invited FTR on his show... the very week they debut on Dynamite... So, who is relevant today ? AEW. Omega. The Bucks. They have been defining modern pro-wrestling during the last decade, no matter what anyone thinks about them. It's a cold hard fact. They are so relevant that Corny is hanging on to *them* to make "the most money he ever made" (which, if it's true, is a pretty sad state of affair, really, when you consider his HOF run with the MX). Corny by himself isn't relevant because he's not contributing anything positive anymore, he's living off those who are by doing what people do today, being a hater (and at times, a carny hater as showed by the Callihan debacle). He's the guy who says techno and hip-hop aren't real music because "they don't play real instrument". He's the guy who moans after the "good old days". He's the old man yelling at clouds. The fact his yelling at the clouds makes him money doesn't mean he's relevant in any shape or form. He probably could if he had an open mind, but sadly, thats ship is gone.

If this week's show was any indication, this next set of tapings leading to Slammiversary are gonna be quite fun, with most of the roster back (apart from Tessa & Daga, basically, stuck in Mexico). So yeah, IMPACT stays true to logical booking in wrapping up the last few months quite nicely into a 5 way for the world title : Tessa vs Eddie vs Elgin vs Ace vs Trey. Taya vs Grace was a very good main event, these girls really like to stiff each other up. Glad to see them back, and now all leads straight to Grace vs Deonna. Their women's roster is getting ridiculous, really, considering the promotion goes under the radar of most. They could get the women tag team titles back at this point. With also probably Chris Bey vs Willie Mack for the X-div title and maybe a final North vs Rascalz match (I guess some fuckery happens next week), Slammiversary already looks really interesting (and fresh) on paper. And IMPACT always delivers on big shows, so... About some of the fired guys showing up, Rhino made a wink wink ref to Heath Slater and the Flashback of the week was all about Mike & Maria and EC3, so there... I wouldn't be shocked to see Eric Young show up to challenge Moose for the "TNA title" though (not my favourite choice at all, but would make sense considering Eric Young's history with the promotion and him being loony half the time).

FTR, Young Bucks, Page & Omega, Lucha Brothers, Santana & Ortiz... And that's only for the top tier. Then you've got a bunch of good mid-card teams like SCU, Best Friends, Sabian & Havoc, Nightmare Family, Dark Order, Butcher & Blade. Yeah, their tag-team scene is beyond stacked. They almost should run a league like AJ used to do, where they can include their jobbers teams like Avalon & Cutler, 5 & 10 and some guys seen on Dark. Loving the little understated angles like the Allie stuff with QT. Also, Janela & Kiss is quite the intriguing unit. From what he's showed on Dark, Sonny Kiss is improving and hopefully will be ready for Dynamite soon. Some killer outfits too. Speaking of improving, Penelope Ford has overdelivered lately, so it's a clear sign she's also on the right path. I was pleasantly surprised by Cody vs Qen, because I was not expecting anything from a Qen single match. Of course I was quite amused by the fact all of his offensive moves after his comebacks were dives, but hey, it's 2020, plus the guy is still learning. Gotta establish that belt, and that's the way you do it, Arn/Regal style. However, FTR vs Butcher & Blade was exactly as good as I hoped it would be. Damn, FTR just are terrific, especially Dax. There has to be a point they'll get involved with Arn & Tully... Or maybe it's too obvious ? Cabana vs Guevarra was also a super strong TV match. Cabana flirting with the Dark Order is something I guess. The gimmick is what it is (and really at this point, I can agree that despite the twists and turns and cool vignettes, it's still not very compelling at all honestly), but they are quite the assembly of excellent workers. Billy (not Gunn anymore because WWE ain't having this anymore) on TV in 2020... yeah I dunno. And the line about giving his talentless sons a job rings a bit too close to home (as far as total nepotism goes at the very least).

The title almost read like a joke. I had to click on the link to be sure it wasn't some parodic website.

Oh, that's pretty spot on. Which is why when I stumbled back onto some WWE stuff in the mid-00's after really years of not watching at all and I saw this guy, I was like, ok, that's the new WWE style and it sucks. They say the same thing about Kane BTW. That says it all. Of course I don't work with them, I have to watch their boring-ass matches, and that makes all the difference in the world.

Not to mention much less talented. Whatever his beliefs are, AJ Styles is one of the greatest and hardest workers ever (I did not watch all those TNA years for naught). That's easy as shit when you get picked up by WWE because of who your daddy is and get pushed from the get go and for the next 20 years, as opposed to working indies (ROH) and minor leagues (TNA) for most of your career because you're deemed "too small" for the "big leagues" (that's until NJPW finally picks you up). Orton may be the biggest silver spoon fed wrestler ever (especially considering his work ethic). I guess the whole flat-earther thing goes with the territory of being a religious zealot... which AJ Styles is. Which is a bummer, but like it's been said before, if you're looking at pro-wrestlers for intelligent views on the world, well...

Actually, it works both ways for Bryan I think. On one hand, because he's in WWE, he's gonna get overrated because it's WWE and it's the most visible company in the world. There's not even an argument about that one. Plus the fact he's so much better than pretty much everyone else helps his case a great deal in this context like you said. But on the other hand, the fact he's been able to be great (by himself, despite the booking, despite the not-so-great co-workers) in this context pretty much cements the idea that he is indeed *that* great. Let's picture the same Bryan in NJ for instance from 2009 to 2015, with the talent he has. The number of awesome matches would be mind-blowing. So yeah, working WWE both helps him regarding his actual output but also kinda hurts him considering what he could have done elsewhere (Japan, really, there's no other case during those years).

Blaming WWE crowds is like blaming the victim. Kinda.

80's : Hulk Hogan : Stallone/Schwarzy = big body guys, bigger than life heroes, jigoism, steroid and punches in the face mid to late 90's : Shawn Michaels / Hardy Boys : Keanu Reeves = smaller guys, good looking, they slide and jump from bus who can't stop and do unthinkable stunts

Except pro-wrestling in the 90's in the US had been in the dump for most of the decade... It did not catch on again before the nWo in WCW and Austin/Rock in WWF (coupled with the raunchy Attitude Era booking style). There's something to be said about why these two angles (to speak broadly) worked when they did, just like why Hulk Hogan worked in the 80's, decade of Silvester Stallone, Schwarzy and Reagan/Bush in the White House.

That's the most out there thing I heard in a long time. What's the analogy between CM Punk, Samoa Joe and Arcade fucking Fire (a band I loathe BTW) ? I always thought comparison between pro-wrestling and music were pretty piss poor anyway (ECW as the "grunge rock" of pro-wrestling, completely laughable), but I have no idea what you mean by that one. Hum... Except that by the mid-00's, "indie rock" meant exactly jackshit in term of being actually "indie" (like it was in the 80's or early 90's) and just became a new boring norm heralded by new internet music media Pitchfork. So, I guess the role played by internet has something do to with it, but there's really no analogy to me between "indie wrestling" in the 00's and "indie rock" in term of finding a form or style that would be its own. Which is not surprising, because what the internet brought was basically file sharing thanks to the mp3 and nothing else. At least not until Youtube and such came along and changed things again in term of distribution and production of content streamable in high definition. Totally agree with this, and this is a point I've been thinking about too when people refer to Kenny Omega as a "geek". Yeah. Geeks are the one who are ruling the world now. Facebook is the creation of a geek. The new rulers are geek. People in Hollywood are geeks. The geeks have won the battle. And I don't see how it's better or worse than the jock culture which gave us Silvester Stallone and Hulk Hogan in the 80's. It's actually probably better, honestly. Or maybe that's me being a geek. (Maybe it's actually much worse, in term of how it affects society, really, when you think about Amazon, Google, Facebook, Uber and other awful companies like that, but we're strictly talking about the entertainment industry here).

I actually read DULL.

I dunno, possible. But old WCW fans always have loved Bischoff as a performer, he was part of (and partly responsible for) the biggest years of WCW. Brucie's rep was always one of a yes-man. So yeah, I guess there was some goodwill feelings dating back to Brother Love, but honestly before the podcast, no one ever thought of Prichard as anything but a yes-man for Vince and a complete bullshiter (that one should not have changed with the podcast, but people bought the whole "Fuck Meltzer" gimmick). Despite the miserable end of WCW, I do think Bischoff had a much higher standard than Prichard, if only as a performer/character (including in WWE). Conrad Thompson turned Brucie babyface, really.

Maybe. Dunno. Don't care. Still, the fact remains that : Brucie : top creative in WWE. JR : legend announcer in AEW. Schiavone : most lovable announcer in the biz today in AEW. Arn : agent and talent in AEW. Bischoff : lol.

Also, Kane, post Mania. Awful stuff. Then again, Kane.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. Remember when he seemed to give no shit and was doing crazy impersonations on a podcast three/four years ago ? The fact he is back at a top position in WWE in 2020, while the product has been totally sinking for years, also illustrates quite well the complete debacle WWE has been and the fact nothing will ever change. Also, when you look at every guy who has a podcast with Conrad, can we have a good laugh at Bischoff ? I mean...

That was an opportunity he did not fully embrace... Speaking of which : "We're telling a story." LOLWWE2020.

Well, WWE is a poor environment in essence to me. So yeah, Bryan transcended it because he's just that good but there was no other mainstream US promotion at the time, sadly. But still, AJ Styles at least got that peak work in NJPW while we'll never have that kind of stuff for Bryan because of context, and it's too damn bad. On the other hand, tons of AJ Styles great stuff is basically forgotten because it happened in TNA. Tanahashi was not only the best, but he also anchored and saved his promotion and got it back to the N°2 promotion in the world spot. As far as lucha libre goes, I dunno, Ultimo Guerrero maybe ?