El-P

Well, that line was certainly the highlight of the show because otherwise, what a complete waste of time. Worst episode by a wide, wide margin. Mostly because there's no story to tell, really. A cokehead money mark promoted a failed godawful promotion for a short while and died because he was a cokehead. But this episode made a nothing story into something actively annoying by trying to paint Herb Abrams as some sort of "competition" to the WWF. The worst of all was Foley saying UWF in 1990 had more star power than WWF and then calling Herb Abrams a legend at the end (also, having him talk about Snuka as his idol a few weeks after the Snuka episode was not the best idea I thought). And after they got done with the actual UWF stories, it was basically 20 minutes of talking about how he loved coke and hookers and how coke is bad for you. How riveting... That's why you need a strong and intriguing topic for this show to work. Herb Abrams is barely a footnote and was only good for a few anecdotes on shoot interviews in the 00's. The one thing I thought was funny though, is the promo about "making pro-wrestling like it used to be". Yep. Always the same kind of bullshit, in any era.

Thanks for the reference, but I've long gave up on every Conrad podcast, even Arn's. EDIt : oh, whatever, TNA is so not talked about, I'm gonna give those a chance.

Yeah, it's sad to see him shaking with Parkinson, but Dean is funny as fuck. Very dry humour, but that's the best kind.

He's getting eviscerated on Twitter, at least. Well deserved too. Fuck, I'm so mad and feel so sad right now.

Well, right now I would like to slap the fuck out of Jacques Audiard for crapping on my beloved Bureau des Légendes TV show and ending it the worst imaginable way possible. Kinda like after Gedo booking the whole thing, Vince Russo shows up and throws all out the window with a shitty finale that doesn't make one lick of sense in the context of the series. So yeah, you can get mad as fuck because of fiction.

Oh yeah. I remember enjoying him in NOAH in the 00's but not feeling the whole British Invasion stuff where he didn't shine. But his whole solo X-division stint was terrific. Someone should pick up his rolling german suplex thingy, it's one of the most beautiful finisher ever.

Bound for Glory 2010 is like the story of TNA. At the same time, ahead of its time with the opening match of Motor City MachineGuns vs GenMe (Young Bucks), which is a great match even by today's standards. Really crazy to think the Young Bucks were already that good ten years ago (no, really), as they looked like kids back then. Crazy also to think they were in the same promotion as Hogan, Angle, Flair, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and plenty others. How could TNA fuck this up ? Well, like I said, story of TNA. Some actually really good things, like the Lethal Lockdown match between Fortune and EV2 (with the babyfaces winning mind you, which really was a shock to me). Some god-awful stuff too like the team of Orlando Jordan & Eric Young, one of the most FF inducing stuff I've ever seen. Eric Young has to be one of the most consistently awful character in pro-wrestling. Thus far his "best" role was the idiot in Team Canada years before. Some cool stuff like Mickie James showing up, Doug Williams having a really good match with uncharismatic as fuck Jay Lethal (it's striking how much when this guy is not doing Savage cosplay or Flair impersonation, he displays zilch in term of personality), yet another strong promo/angle involving Team 3D. And of course the main event of Angle vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr. Anderson (which honestly has surprised me positively both in promos and in-ring work after a shaky debut). Which was excellent. And so, bam. LOLTNA in action. Russo in all his glory. Match stops, bunch of run-ins, SWERVE BRO and yet another kinda nWo reunion sorta. I died laughing. It's insane how much potential, ideas and talent TNA had and how badly they fucked it up. They were ahead of the curve stylistically with AJ, Joe and the bunch, they were not afraid of still doing blood & guts, they had a few actual name value guys, they had great vets, they had a strong TV station. They had everything to be what AEW has been in the last few months. And yet they always were TNA.

Can't wait for the point when this Roman things gets turned into an angle and people will argue it was the plan all along like with Bryan's push to the top. That people running this company are petty assholes is nothing new though.

It's actually overrated as fuck-all. Not very good of you ask me. The first seasons are booked by Vince Russo. Lots of titties, women abused and treated like objects, mindless violence for shock value and *swerves* bro. Because people will never expect *that*. Gets marginally better for a while then the last season is akin to modern WWE in term of not giving a fuck. Gotta feel for all those girlies named Danae and shit by stupid parents, when they got to the last episode they be like... well, fuck me.

I also believe the stabbing and shooting stories have been vastly overstated over the years by a generation of professional bullshiters. Not that it never occurred, but I would guess, like anything else, stuff like this happening a bunch of times became like "we worked 90 minutes matches in front of sell-out crowds every day and twice on Sunday".

That's actually a pretty good counter-argument. I highly doubt these people think movies are real... but they still harass those actors and actresses. I'd argue old-school rasslin' worked on the same level rather than "oh, back then people thought it was real".

I'd watch a Candido/Tammy episode if only to remind people how great of a pro-wrestler Candido was. I guess Chyna could be an interesting case too. Zumhoff I'd have trouble watching honestly. A much more interesting episode to me would be Jerry Lawler's rape case. And Ashley Massaro. Of course, WWE going to Saudi Arabia to get money from a criminal regime should be the most serious one.

The same. Cringe as fuck. Also, in the real world where no one knows what "The Man" refers to in pro-wrestling folklore, a woman calling herself The Man because she's the champ sounds dumb and misogynistic as hell !

That joke is even better now that they use Pantera as their opening.

The Ratings Slaya'

That's an interesting point. There's no doubt that match was the ultimate star maker for Micheals. I believe he would have been pushed anyway (he main evented Survivor Series 92 against Bret, something that is somewhat forgotten), but the ladder match was the eye opener to this guy having the potential to be a big star and being a one of a kind worker. And it was indeed the very first "Kliq match", with Diesel at ringside at the beginning. That being said, the guy Vince wanted to push to the top at this point was clearly Kevin Nash (he won the IC belt a few weeks after Mania then worker against Bret at that disastrous KORT show, which was already testing the waters for what was about to come).

They switched to the blue bars for Hogan vs Bundy at WM2 I believe. Because you know, Hogan, escape rules...

Not at all. Definitely very influencial. But most matches after TLC looked like the first TLC match rather than an actual, well constructed match like Razor vs Shawn (there were some exceptions like Benoit vs Jericho early on). And basically the gimmick became a recurrent thing in WWF/E during and after the Hardys/E&C/Dudleys feud. Like you said it was more than four years, which is pretty long actually, between Razor/Shawn 2 and the next ladder match in WWE. You only had one in WCW at Souled Out and probably the Stairway to Hell in ECW (unless it came after the first Hardys vs E&C, don't remember). The Money in the Bank match is basically TLC. And last fall, Young Bucks vs Lucha Brothers pretty much had the best and most spectacular match of this kind, ever, almost 20 years after TLC made it legendary.

Of course, but in term of importance in changing things on a wide scale, to me the impact matters more than the precedence (is that a word ?). Which is why even though Tiger Mask vs Dynamite did not indeed invent junior wrestling and guys like Fujinami and Gran Hamada were already having great lucha-infused matches in the late 70's, it was Tiger & Dynamite that made the real big-time impact. As far as big-ass clusterfuck stuntmen ladder match, TLC is the most impactful match of the genre to me.

Well, except the matches that got those insane star ratings were all insanely successful for the audiences for whom they were worked (thinking about the NJPW matches or lately the AEW tag-team match). So maybe the aim of epic star ratings (which honestly strikes me a kinda ridiculous especially when you're talking about Japan) actually produces insanely great and successful matches for the audience. In which case, the whole thing is a moot point.

Totally agree. Shane & Francine was an awesome pair. The only one I'd even put in the same category, although in a completely different style is Savage & Sherri. But Shane & Francine together were monstruous heet-seekers. The promos were awesome, the intro was perfect, Francine was a terrific valet (honestly I put her against anyone), she wasn't afraid to bump hard and show ass (well, literally) and Shane was great in getting her involved the best way possible. This is neither here nor there, but you gotta love the fact Francine seems like an adorable person IRL (from the interviews she did the last few years). I kinda got that feel back a bit when Cody & Brandi were working heels a few years ago, maybe that's why I became interested then (as Cody in WWE was exactly zilch to me).

Agreed. Not to mention, Lucha Underground is also what brought back a new, updated version of studio wrestling. I don't think there's NWA Powerr without Lucha Underground either. Yes and yes. Although I'd say TLC was even more influencial, really. And this goes back to ECW, really. The Rock vs Mankind (awful) match being basically a rehash of Shane Douglas vs Cactus Jack.

Well, can't counter that argument I guess when the president of the United States is Donald Trump. About the point you're making though, there's probably a whole lot to say about Jim Cornette and SMW and why this stuff worked then because how where he promoted and how.

Yeah. But no, thank you. (seriously, there's probably a hundred guys I'd rather see in the G1)

Well, Meltz says that basically, this is the match that convinced Tony Khan that something could be done in the United States, so yeah. May be the most important match of the last 20 years when all is said and done.