El-P

I believe Meltz reported that Funk was hurt by the fireball, yes. I would agree about the match being as good as it can be when the average age in the ring is 68. But that's the problem to me. I don't want to see a pro-wrestling match involving two guys that old. I don't care how "good" their psychology is. At some point, I have to draw the line between what's fun to watch and what's not fun to watch. And two guys passed 65 having a pro-wrestling match just isn't any fun to watch, period. If you showed me that when I was 15, or even 25, not-yet-prowrestling-fan me and told me that those two are masters and this is very good as far as pro-wrestling goes, I would have thought it was stupid, crass and not interesting in the least. I love Terry, and I like Lawler, and yes, this was as good as you can expect it to be. But to me, and even if Funk hadn't been hurt, this is clearly on the "pretty sad" side of things, aesthetically speaking. (of course when it's guys who do need the money, then it's really fucking sad, but I was not refering to that, and I sure hope Terry doesn't *need* to do this)

You mean the part where 71 years old Funk actually gets burned by a legit fireball ? Sorry if I sound like an asshole, but I find this rather sad actually (not just the ending, the entire thing). And if we're calling this a "good pro-wrestling match" by today's standarts, then yes, I admit it, pro-wrestling has passed me by.

This card looks dreadful to me. Rusev in a six-man opener is sad. Ryback makes sure I don't give a shit about Owens. Dudz make sure I don't give a shit about the New Days. Kane makes sure I don't give a shit about Rollins. Roman vs Bray I sure don't give a shit either way. Charlotte vs Nikki, well, can't say I'm too interested, but still way more than the other stuff. Taker vs Lesnar gets morbid curiosity out of me. I only hope for a cool debut to face Cena and get the US belt. But I'm not really getting my hopes up either. WWE in 2015. Yep.

Edit : as far as pure shoot-style matches go : Tamura, clearly ahead. Then, since Han doesn't have the longevity and Fuji was mostly great in both UWFs, it would be a toss up. Some goofy pro-style traits of Fujiwara (those headbutts...) could hurt him, but then again, longevity. So, I dunno.

Volk Han was the Dan Kroffat of shoot-style in term of finishing stretches.

It's been a while, but I'm not sure I would say 96 was still her peak. 95 without a doubt, but wasn't she slipping a bit by 96 already compared to her 93/95 work ?

I already know who my #100 is. I believe last time it was Shinzaki, but I'm not sure.

Potentially, a top 50 guy easily. Practically, nope. Don't do drugs kids.

I always got a kick out of Terri Runnels saying that Ray Traylor was basically her best girlfriend on the road in the 00's. The Corny story of Bubba not selling a car door slammed on his hands because some maks were around, then screaming with his high pitch voice backstage is classic too. Actually, I haven't thought about Traylor in a while, and I really can't stand his last WWF stint, but from the 80's to about 94/95, he really was a very good worker that I always loved. Could snip in...

We should rename that thread "20 jazz funk greats"...

Ok. Can I see those lists ? Please ? (I'd love to have those references)

As I'm going through Ishin Gundan vs NJ, Ishin Gundan vs Jumbo's army & UWF vs NJ, it just occured to me that the two workers who basically revolutionized pro-wrestling in the 80's in Japan (Choshu & Maeda) were actually Korean. I wonder if that has been discussed before and if that played a role in how they were perceived by the audience, including the fact they played the role of rebellious people turning against the establishment.

As I'm going through Ishin Gundan vs NJ, Ishin Gundan vs Jumbo's army & UWF vs NJ, it just occured to me that the two workers who basically revolutionized pro-wrestling in the 80's in Japan (Choshu & Maeda) were actually Korean. I wonder if that has been discussed before and if that played a role in how they were perceived by the audience, including the fact they played the role of rebellious people turning against the establishment.

I used to love Devil so much. Except when she was doing that Super Heel shitty Taker like gimmick. But yeah, great worker. And like you said, probably the first veteran worker. The greatest smile in joshi puroresu too (could be a genuine gentle smile or a totally evil one).

So yeah, sometime we do see the same match. This is terrific indeed.

Yeah, but we really only use the last part as a running gag since 2002 : "I fully assume the responsibility for this failure and I drew conclusions by removing me from …." (whatever you're talking about at that moment) As a frenchman, it automatically popped up in my brain. Along with this (no translation needed) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9PjBgWOkng

I went into details about that match already. It's like we didn't watch the same match, but it's not the first time it happens, and I'm cool with that. To me Takada is better that Fuji at this point. To quote Will : "Different strokes for different people".

This. You know what you need to do now, Dan.

He couldn't be seen as the real deal when he was submitting to a Mutoh shitty figure four I believe. Still, that didn't keep him from going all shooty later, so. Yeah, terrific carny like I said. And really, should the HUSTLE work count for something ? I have no idea what he was saying over there, but it was so cool and goofy.

I don't know if he got over as the real deal. I don't think those PRIDE debacle were well recieved. Takada's in-ring career really didn't survive much longer after those, although his super-stardom as a pro-wrestler totally helped establish the brand. Takada was a huge star before, and stayed a big name afterward as a celebrity, but he kinda followed the Onita path to me. He's a terrific carny. On the working side, I'm going through UWF vs NJ feud right now, and man I forgot how great Takada already was by then. I'll say it out front, he's the best worker of the bunch alongside Fujinami and Maeda (and before someone jumps at my throat, yeah, I think Fujiwara going all headbutty and shit just doesn't work as well as him being all great as a shoot-style worker in both UWFs, although I enjoyed his blood feud with Kengo Kimura a lot, a few douchy no-selling spots aside, so he's one step below although still really good). Reawatching Takada, inlcuding tons of matches I hadn't seen before (I went through both UWF's in the last few years), I'm getting closer and closer to throw him into the top 10, which is higher than I did during the SC poll.

Wait, does that mean I actually was turned de facto babyface ? Should I now rank Lawler in my top 10 or is my "Takada is great" stance now an actual finisher ?

I'm not the biggest Toyota fan around (although I do recognize her greatness in spots). But this is kinda insulting. Yeah, not a Patti Smith fan at all.

Hey, Shinzaki made my top 100 in 2006 for this exact reason. And gotta +1 everything Redman said (and put very well) about doing a yearly poll. I'll add it would be the best way to kill that kind of project because after one year or two, people just won't care anymore. Every ten years is perfect.

Never got the backlash. Super solid worker. Might be somewhat dull as a babyface, but that's because he's a natural heel. Always enjoyed him whenever he showed up in WCW in the 90's, and was very good in UWF. Not top 100 material, but a super solid hand. Kind of a dick apparently (maybe because his own is small if you believe Missy).