El-P

Hum.. Hansen... "Oh, you're trying to beat the shit out of me ? Ok, where's the eye socket... ok, there."

Ditto. Well I liked him when nobody cared. I remember really enjoying his match with Jeff Jarrett at NWO 98. I don't remember who told that story, but here it is. When Vader was doing his left/right barrage in the corner, if you got with the rhythm, it was harmless. So what Vader did was break his own rhythm so he could punch you good. So whoever this guy was got the stiff treatment, punched Vader in the face as a reply, and next time around Vader softly stayed in his rhythm and barely touched the guy.

Not really. I know some people loved the Bradshaw push in the mid00's. I enjoyed Bradshaw back in 97/98. Then got bored because a third rate Nise Hansen only goes so far. Then watched back his "big push" matches, saw that the guy was worse than 7/8 years before, that his gimmick worked wonders (sarcasm) on the WWE audience, that he took part in two great matches thanks to Eddie Guerrero. Essentially, Bradsaw is to the WWE in the 00's what Johnny Ace was to AJ in the 90's. Except Ace at one point brought more to the table than Bradshaw ever did (and I don't like Ace). Now, as far as his commentary years, I'm filling a blank, not familiar with it. He may have been great at this, I can't tell.

That's laughable. How many guys worked their ass off during years and never got any chance at being headliners ? Please. It's not like Bradshaw had any value at all to WCW. Justin Hawk, Blackjack Bradhsaw... yeah, like Bischoff would throw big money at an aging stiff cowboy guy who was a mediocre worker low on the undercard. Bradshaw was an office stooge, that's why he finally got a push. Just accept it. Won't change anything to the work of him you enjoy. I enjoyed DDP's push in 96/97 a lot and I know why he finally got it (that said, he was a much better worker than Bradshaw and got himself over as hell, while Bradshaw's matches were getting crickets when he got pushed).

I disagree with that assessment of Vader. A lot of the interviews I've seen where people talk about Vader is that he just worked a certain way and that was beating the hell out of you in the ring. Of course, you could beat the shit out of Vader in return and there would be no issues. He was unlike JBL in the sense that he was a big softie backstage. He wasn't out to take liberties on guys and he wasn't out to hurt anyone. When he broke that jobbers back he went backstage and cried about it. He wasn't backstage fucking with guys constantly like JBL. I don 't know, most interviews I've heard categorize Vader as somewhat of a bully in the ring, taking advantage of people he could beat up. Of course that doesn't mean he wanted to injure people. Agreed about being a softie backstage though, the same people said Vader was a sensitive teddy bear. So yeah, Vader just isn't in the same category as JBL, who was a plain asshole from all acounts. Plus he was a great worker, while JBL, well, not very good.

I thought you stopped trying to be a smart alec. I stopped watched WWF programming in 1999, only watched a few big matches up intul 2001 Then in the mid 00's, mostly because of the GWE poll, I revisited the post 00 era, watched most big matches there was to watch. I thought I shouldn't have to explain it.

Holy shit John !!

I can't even fathom the idea that 1999 would be the golden age of anything. WWF was the shit in 99. The nadir of Russoism. It's the year that made me quit.

It's also worth noting how much the company was moving away from tag teams, which were an essential part of the undercard until then. In late 1990, the Rock'n Roll split because of Gibson's injury, The Nasty Boys left for WWF, the Midnight Express split with Lane & Corny leaving, the Samoans left a few months before, then in early 1991 Doom split. At this point the tag team roster was down to the Steiners, who had no one left to feud with, so they got Luger & Sting at Superbrawl, The Fabulous Freebirds and the Young Pistols, whose name change apparently hurt them a bit, as they are nowhere as hot as they were in 90 as the Southern Boys. And yet they still have the US tag titles floating around which was odd since they could have get rid of it after the Steiners vacated them. Really, 1991 is the first year where the tag team division didn't seem as important as it was before.

March - April 1991 is really carried by two things : _Brian Pillman feuding with the Horsemen. At some point, you get a very good Pillman vs Windham / Arn / Flair match or even a fun Pillman/Gigante vs Windham/ Anderson on every TV show. The bad thing is that Pillman is jobbed out. Sure, he comes off like a valiant underdog, but he doesn't get much in term of wins and gets a beating from the Horsemen every time. _The York Foundation. First you get Taylor and aspiring Landell vs Eaton/Z-Man in various single and tag matches, then Landell sadly gets fired and you Zbyszko takes his spot, which isn't bad but not as great. Eaton gets to feud with Arn so the York Foundation moves toward Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Morton. Taylor is gold every time around. Funny to see Dustin & Alexandria York at this point. Lot of good TV matches and fun stuff every week. The Flair vs Gigante feud quickly goes nowhere, as Gigante is programmed with Sid (who eventually leaves WCW), leaving an interesting angle in which Arn & Barry allude to the fact they want to get more single titles, teasing an eventual Horsemen split. Would have been pretty fun to see Flair feud with these two at this point. The Doom split really didn't deliver much in term of follow-up. I guess they didn't want to put much spotlight on Reed who was leaving anyway.

Well, I dunno about Waltman, but Francine sure did.

It's too bad, but it was stupid on their part, Gangrel was a great character and a solid enough worker. Have Luna cut the promos for him, and that's it. He didn't need to talk. That's why managers were needed, to back up workers who couldn't cut promo, but they were in this "everyone has to cut promos" era which sucked. From the interviews I've heard from him, Dave Heath was a shy, humble guy who wasn't particulary self confident. Add to the fact that Luna got in trouble with Sable at the same time, and Gangrel was doomed. To me he was much better in the ring than Edge, and had a much better character too. I was very disapointed about the way things turned out for this guy, he deserved better. And I can't forget the story of Luna coming back to the dressing room after making useless Sable look like a million dollar and being ignored by the entire locker room while Sable got all the praise, and feeling like shit and wanting to cry. She mentionned one guy who came to her and put her over big, but I forgot who it was. Luna was another sensitive hard working girl who deserved way better than she got. Shit, Luna & Heath were good people, I guess that's why they got fucked. Owen Hart You're right. Thanks ! It says a lot I think. FWIW, Raven also said multiple times that Luna was a sweetheart of a girl.

It's too bad, but it was stupid on their part, Gangrel was a great character and a solid enough worker. Have Luna cut the promos for him, and that's it. He didn't need to talk. That's why managers were needed, to back up workers who couldn't cut promo, but they were in this "everyone has to cut promos" era which sucked. From the interviews I've heard from him, Dave Heath was a shy, humble guy who wasn't particulary self confident. Add to the fact that Luna got in trouble with Sable at the same time, and Gangrel was doomed. To me he was much better in the ring than Edge, and had a much better character too. I was very disapointed about the way things turned out for this guy, he deserved better. And I can't forget the story of Luna coming back to the dressing room after making useless Sable look like a million dollar and being ignored by the entire locker room while Sable got all the praise, and feeling like shit and wanting to cry. She mentionned one guy who came to her and put her over big, but I forgot who it was. Luna was another sensitive hard working girl who deserved way better than she got. Shit, Luna & Heath were good people, I guess that's why they got fucked.

I think because at some point, it became fashionable to like Bradshaw. People on the IWC went crazy for his heel personna and all of a sudden Bradshaw was an Internet darling, which I never understood. And that comes from a guy who enjoyed Bradshaw in the ring since the mid 90's and thought he was rather underrated. But Bradshaw got a main event push for one reason only, he was a stooge to the office. The great matches with Eddie are Guerrero's masterpieces. Never got this late Bradshaw love, while it was obvious at this point that this guy : was a mediocre worker; never drew shit; got a push because he kissed the office's collective ass for years; bombed as a champ; was a big unprofessionnal bully. Of course you can argue that Vader was a big bully too, and you'd be right.

Wasn't that whole thing kinda debunked? Or at least it didn't go down quite like that? As far as I know, not really. Someone said, I don't remember who, that he wasn't surprised very much when that happened, that Joey was a tough little Italian while Bradshaw was just a big bully who would only mess with weak people and take advantage of guys inside the ring while they're giving him their bodies, but would never ever mess with tough guys. Yeah, as much as I found Style's political stuff repulsive, I admit punching Bradshaw made him love him for ever at least for one thing.

Agreed. In a recent shoot interview, Shane Douglas gives him tons of credit for working in really tough conditions, that don't compare at all with what WCW and WWF announcers were working with at the same time, and pulling it off despite all the bullshit. Joey was a big part of getting the ECW product over. I think he got exposed as soon as the first PPV, and his character became a bit annoying after 1998. He was at his best on his own before that.

Well, I'd say The Warlord in the PoP was much better than Sid.

Having Dustin Rhodes speak like his father was also a retarded idea.

Ok, I see... Poor Lance.

Enlighten me please. I have no idea what Storm Front means, although with the reactions above I'm kinda guessing. (btw, Todd Martin is the one who did the proofreading, so blame him I guess).

It's going to be yet another fiasco.

Honky Tonk Man often talked about how he made way more money working indies than if he got a Legend's contract.

I think Sid was generally more over as a face than as a heel, and I think it might have had a lot to do with his offense. As a face, it's not as important for him to actually hurt the heels as much as it is for him to beat them. His clotheslines in the International Incident six-man looked pretty weak, but it didn't matter because it was Sid coming in and cleaning house, so the fans went crazy. When he actually had to build heat on a face by making it look like he was killing the guy, he didn't do as well. I might be reading too much into it, and maybe it was just that Sid was a guy whom people wanted to cheer. Actually that's an excellent point. I think Nash is still underrated somewhat. Especially his WCW stint (the nWo one, not Master Blaster/OZ/Vinnie Vegas). (If someone wants to break this into a Sid/Nash/how to work as a giant/monster, we'll probably be fine with it. Unless we're done already.)

Sid had an unbelievable physical presence. His body, his face, his maneurisms were great. Watching Sid squashes in 1991 is pretty entertaining. That being said, I agree with waht Loss said. The issue is that he was physically imposing, but he could only look devastating on offense if someone was making him look devastating. Otherwise, Sid could look like a clumsy goof. He was especially goofy on selling and bumping. That said, there has been times I enjoyed Sid. His super hot period in 1996/early 97 constitutes his peak to me, working with guys like Vader, Shawn or Bret surely helped things a lot. But Sid was all about what the other guy would do. I feel Kevin Nash was better than that. More dynamic to his few moves I thought. It's no wonder Nash had much better matches than Sid had with the same opponents, and a variety of good matches against a variety of workers.

Disapointing that the Bodies didn't work more in ECW. Would have been fun.