El-P

Way overrated, and Inoue was a much better worker than Toyota already. Still better (I think?) than the also way overrated Toyoa vs Yamada series.

Terrific match, and no, I don't think there was ever a better Piper match. Clearly one of Bret's best performance.

The first Wrestlemania I ever saw. I loved Savage, I loved Flair, the Dome, the blood, Liz storming up in panic to the ring, the post-match insanity. Still one of my favourite wrestling moments for pure nostalgia reason, and in retrospect, an excellent match (although it's obvious both guys have just passed their prime) and an amazing angle surrounded with classic interviews from everyone involved.

Totally agree. I love those post WM shows in which Savage still sold the knee. And Sherri looked amazing.

Awesome meeting of two worlds. Samuel Beckett and young Andre the Giant talking cricket in a car ? AWESOME.

Agree with John about the domestic violence issue. It is where most of the murder, rape and abuse occur. Brings us back to the South park episode where the parents send their kids away from them so they are safe... As far as knowing in advance something was up, I think it's a very though thing to do, because in 99% of the cases of a guy going on a murder rampage, the most common stuff you hear from the neighbours is "I would never have guessed, he was a very calm and polite man". You never really know people. The most facsinating case to me is Jean-Claude Roman, who passed himself as a doctor and a searcher at the WHO for years despite being unemployed and spending days in his car. In the end, trapped in his own spiral and without any more ways to get money, he killed his family so they would not know the truth. You can check it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Romand Also agreed with sek as far as any signs of crazyness would be dismissed anyway because of the inherent nature of the wresting business. We're talking about a business in which Jimmy Snuka is still talked about as a great guy, and vile and cruel guys like Mr. Fuji or Dynamite Kids are merely "great ribbers". I honestly didn't think much about anything except "car accident" when I learned the whole family was killed. The Kevin Sullivan theories were so out there and retarded that it didn't bother me, but I was frankly appaled and shocked at how many people would try to convince themselves that Nancy had killed Daniel first, in a way of making Benoit murdering her "okay" because "that bitch had killed the kid first". It was all over the place, and I really thought it was repulsive. I'm glad I wasn't watching WWE programs anymore at this point, I wouldn't have wanted to get through those creepy "tributes".

That's PC feminism bullshit. Women are physiologically weaker than men. Of course women who do combat sports or who are though girl could kick my weak ass in a snap, but on average, women are smaller and weaker than men, it's just a fact. Thousands of women die every year because they are beat down by men. Sometimes you just can't argue against nature. And I know what I'm talking about. I've slapped my girlfriend under the influence of alcohol (both of us drunk). She didn't mind, because she's that kind of girl, but still, makes you feel like a complete and utter shitbag. I've also been in the situation where a hysterical woman under the influence can drive you crazy to the point of you wanting to beat the crap out of her just so she would calm the fuck down and shut up. The only reasonnable thing a man should do is punch the wall, hurt your fist and get the fuck out of the room. Or if you're able to control yourself, physically hold her down without hurting her until she cools off, which usually isn't easy, and results in you getting hit multiple times. You don't hit a woman, period. I don't have an issue with those kind of serious intergender matches because they are treated like just an athletic contest, and if done right, especially when you work a lighter lucha influenced style, it can work fine. Those ARSION matches with Apache were lot of fun. I loved him working with his daughters too.

Sting wasn't as good as Luger at first, and I was never a big fan of the surfer character, but he got better than Luger pretty quickly, and when Luger dropped off, Sting peaked and had quite a bit of tremendous match in the mid-90's, matches' better than Luger's best, in which he contributed a lot. Sting overall, by a large margin I would say.

There is a difference, and that's why it was "acceptable". But still, I have an issue with a 270 pds male babyface doing anything physical to a woman. I did not have a problem with Sunny getting slopped. That's basic comedy stuff, and that was a great payoff. Sherri getting bullied, well, even when Terry Funk does it, I don't like that very much. Of course she was so good she would make it fun to watch thanks to her bumping and selling. But in strict kayfaybe sense, I didn't like it, it felt wrong. The valet is interfering ? Fuck up her guy. Make her look stupid.

Maybe. And time for an arab muslim babyface. And a gay angle that actually makes it allright to be gay and doesn't involve rubbing you own body. It's wrestling though. Dream on.

You mean he beat up the person who has attacked him on numerous occasions unprovoked, including costing him the WWF championship days before? How is that misogyny? Simple. A man beating a woman is misogyny. So Sherri was guilty of misandry? What ? A 270 pound man beating on a woman is just wrong, I don't care if she's a heel. Any man beating on a woman is fucking wrong, and babyface should not touch women. That was the whole deal about Chyna and what made her cool at the beginning, she was a amazonian female, but babyface wouldn't touch her because she was a woman. Then the first time Austin stunned her the pop was huge because it finally meant something and came after a one year build of Chyna fucking up men without ever getting a receit. You'll tell me I'm hypocritical then taking this example, but Austin at this time was a unique case of an asshole babyface, and Chyna was sold as being as strong as tough as any men. Warrior bullying Sherri Martel is different, it's just stupid shit that a babyface should never do. Remember how much heat Jake got for one slap to Liz. That worked and was sold as an heinous act. I wish things had stayed that way. That's one of the worst thing ECW brought to wrestling, making babyface violence again women totally acceptable. Of course It had been done in the 80's already but not to the point of becoming banal and even cool. The Duds putting women through tables and getting huge pop was everything wrong about the Attitude era audience. I hated that.

You mean he beat up the person who has attacked him on numerous occasions unprovoked, including costing him the WWF championship days before? How is that misogyny? Simple. A man beating a woman is misogyny.

Have you seen Martel's work from Montreal ? This is a territory I rarely hear about, depsite being quite big at one time. I also wonder what's available of his 70's work, as Martel worked nearly ten years before Hennig even debuted. It should be fair to note that as early as 1990 when he got to do the Model gimmick, Martel was doing pro-wrestling has a second job, as he went into real estate. He talks about it quite a bit in his (great) shoot interviews, saying that although he loved the Model gimmick (and came up with all the cool shit about it), he really didn't put that much into it as wrestling was beginning to be just a way to make some money to get cash for his real estate business.

Rewatched the Luger match a few weeks ago. It's decent, that's it. Nothing much happens, and Hayes as a terrible DDT. I mean, Onita-like shitty. They also blow the ending badly, it's awful to watch. Phantom ref bump, awkward push from the outside by Gordy. Cringeworthy. I'm interested in watching the last Freebirds version, and thus far they have shown exactlly zilch against the MX. There's still plenty of matches for me to watch though. Hopefully they are better than they are considered, if not I'm in for some rough times.

Maybe my view of Hennig has been tainted by his god awful WCW stint, but even from comparing the matches Lawler had with him, Bockwinckle and Martel, Hennig comes off as the worst of the three, easily. Of course I haven't seen much of his AWA work overall, so my opinion might change. Hennig is a guy I want to love because he was Mr. Perfect, and I loved him back in the days, but revisiting his work over the years just made me think less and less of him. I don't think Kerry was just a step above luggage. When he was on, he contributed quite a bit to the great matches he was involved in. When he was out of it, there was no hope. But since some think he's some fine piece of luggage what about : Kerry von Eric or Davey Boy Smith ?

Agree. Dean never knew how to work with other people anyway, he was always working in a vacuum and doing his own little deal.

Martel in a walk. Hennig is way overrated. Granted, I'm not very familiar with either AWA work, but the few I've seen, Martel blows Hennig away. The best thing about Hennig was the Mr. Perfect's gimmick. After his prime Hennig quickly got worthless, while Martel in 1998 demonstrated he was still solid as hell. Whipreck. I can find 200 wrestler better than Spike Dudley. Candido over both. Not seen much SMW though, so I guess I have some large chunks of Smothers/Candido to watch. Yes, it's a weird comp, as Sabu didn't do the "bleed the face" routine very long. Sabu, in a walk. At the end of my ECW watch, I wasn't tired of Sabu, he's a guy who went way up in my book. Hard choice. I may give the edge to Tajiri, but I have years of unwatched WCW stuff involving Scorpio. Both were pretty great. From what I've seen, Kerry gets the nod. Although Hayes is not bad. I like Saito quite a bit, but I haven't seen much of his prime. Yatus in his prime was awesome, he gets the nod. I like Fuji more than most, but Jumbo is just a top 3 greatest wrestler ever. Judging from the 90's only, Togo. I doubt things got reversed. Valentine.

Oxymore.

I agree about Konnan being one of the all-time worse. Man this guy was worthless 99% of the time, he sucked the life out of good workers he was with. Brutus Beefcake was a better worker than Konnan. Road Warriors, easily, I've said all I had to say about Demos a few weeks ago. Better in every aspect, look, work, matches, promos, drawing power. Eaton/Condrey : I don't want to hammer on the guy, but really, the more I watch Lane, the closest he gets to "not very good" category. Condrey is way more solid.

Cougar Jay is my favourite jobber thus far. Love that Snake guy too.

You're gonna judge Mutoh from what he did in WCW in 2000 ? Come on. He didn't even want to be there, it was under Russo, he hated it. Mutoh has had tons of excellent matches from 95 to 00, and except for a few infamous terrible ones, including the Takada sabotage, I don't see how Mutoh "sucked" during this period. Hell, Mutoh during the 1996 G1 Climax was excellent. He went in AJ with Kojima, not Hash.

What ? Mutoh really saved All Japan from going under, the company was going nowhere fast after the exodus. You couldn't run Tenryu vs Kawada for ever. Mutoh never had any fall from grace, he's been a big star for the last 20 years, got his own company, delivered memorable matches late in his career... I don't see any fall from grace at any point in Mutoh's career, he reinvented himself at the right moment.

In 98 he had a few good matches with Savage at the beginning of the year, then two killer matches with Bret Hart during the Fall when Bret was working his hypocritical jerkoff US champ gimmick. The matches they should have had in WWF for the title.

I'm watching him right now, and quite frankly, Luger in 89 was better in every aspect than HHH ever was. I'm talking work, big matches and interviews. HHH has been ridiculously overrated for ever at this point, it would be time for people to realize this guy was not nearly as good as Shane Douglas, DDP or Jarrett who got shit on for years. He's been a mediocre worker most of his career, with a few *good* peaks. Luger has sucked for a long time, but at least he sucked in short matches, not in overlong self-conscious so-called "epics". Luger sucking for long stretches and HHH being dull as dirt in long matches he had no business working is just about equal to me. Plus Luger has had some fun resurgences over the years, such as the great 96 period teaming with Sting (and overall, the first year of his comeback to WCW), and the Total Package gimmick with Liz at the end of WCW. HHH has been the same awful dull as dirt character for ever and he's a shitty heel. He's an even shittier babyface. Luger was very efficient both as a face and as a heel. Constant switching never kept him from being over with the WCW crowd. Both peaked early, HHH during the Hunter days in about 96-97, and Luger in 89, but Luger, despite having the biggest "suck" period of the two, also has the best peak, by a huge margin, and the best matches. Anyway, I'm enjoying the hell out of Luger now, especially since the heel turn.

There is this : Gorilla and Heenan were best friends. Heenan and Schiavone didn't get along, and at this point Heenan was in cruise control mode.