El-P

Inspired by the DVDVR thread : Lex Luger or HHH ?

Why is that? He's hysterical, full of shit, tells a thousand stories and tells them really well, drops shit on everyone, himself included (gotta love the story of the boys in the back telling him Dr. Death was pissed at him and Brickhouse was terrified), talks like a pimp and generally speaking is awesome to listen too.

Totally agree.

That's what I meant. That said, after witnessing the debut of Norman, I highly doubt I'll enjoy his run at all... Finally saw the debut of the Ding Dongs too. Seriously, what the fuck was that ? Corporate people stucking their nose into wrestling, it begins to show a little bit. Ross dropping "that was horrible" at the end of the match is really funny.

Yep and yep. I was watching Luger and thought "This is a money promo". On the same show you had Great Muta spraying Missy Hyatt in the face with the green mist. I guess having something green sprayed in her face was a first for Missy. Oh, and Muta, vs Glacier, well, kinda. And probably the first Steiner brother televised match in WCW. Suplex are finally showing up. And Jack Victory doing yet another JTTS gimmick under the New Zealand Militia gimmick. This guy couldn't get a break, but man, could he work and make people look good. Some of the greatest punches too.

"If I have to step on Ricky Steamboat and his family, I will. That includes that little pig-nosed half-breed child of him". Terry Funk is awesome.

More WCW goodness : _Ricky Santana on my TV, and man did he look good squashing some jobber. I never think this guy was actually good after I saw him (I think that was him) under a hood in IWA Japan _Rick Steiner's love interest played by Nancy Sullivan. They sure made her look like a complete geek, and with the fashion trends of 1989, it was not hard to do. Of course she gets brutalized a bit by Kevin Sullivan. The more I watch Sullivan, the more I enjoy him. He was a great squash worker. Squashes really could make a storyline progress with small things happening on the side, without having to find ways to protect people. _and I saw the damnest video vignette EVER : a blonde Scott Hall with the porn stache fishing on a boat, playing volleyball, swimming with good looking girls, and hunting alligators, all with James Bond's theme !! Fuck Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, this is why I watch these old TV shows ! _Terry Funk getting confronted by Sting who is sick of Funk making fun of Flair. Of all people, Sting is gonna defend Flair. If only he knew how many time he would get sucked in and betrayed in the following decade... Anyway, this was good and really makes you want to see that match.

Gotta love Bigelow's reaction when the interviewer asks him "How about Nash as a booker ?", at 2:38. "How was Nash as a booker ?"

You don't say. I'm glad it's out there for me to watch now.

Yeah. I admit the "soon to divorce him" was unpredictable back then, but really, this man is called the Dragon, spitting fire is way cooler than coming up with a baby on a poney. Well, at least his wife was hot. I would have loved to have Flair just made some proposition to the hot wife, now that would have been more fun. You know what, that's exactly what I thought about Steamboat : better version of Ronnie Garvin, word for word. Yes, of course. Ric Flair and pure sport build don't go hand in hand. The biggest match that hasn't happened in the 90's to me is really Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat. I think Hart was a more interesting *character* than Ricky, and together they would have had some amazing matches probably.

I have never seen heel Norman, so now I'm curious to see how he worked. You make it sound like he was WCW's version of Doink. He was a decent enough worker in Calgary, so let's see. I have the same kind of shared memory with my father about Royal Rumble 93 and Guy Hauray making fun of Bob Backlund. And my father also uses some Eddie Carpentier lines from time to time.

WWF killed the territories and WCW as far as production went. As far as wrestling goes, not so much... quite the opposite.

Actually, Long said in his first interview that Norman was a childhood friend. I just don't see the link between pimp-dressed former crooked referee Teddy Long and a fat psychopat. Long eventually ending up with Doom made much more sense to me at least (although I liked Doom with Woman better).

In one episode of WCW you had _Sting challenging the Great Muta, which promised to be just incredible in terms of spectacular action and colorful stuff back then _Scott Steiner debut squash with Missy Hyatt (who looked so hot back then) on his side. I never realized that the Steiner Brothers basically were born under Gilbert's watch and against Kevin Sullivan. _Terry Funk against a young Eddie Guerrero is a great squash match, followed by a ridiculously great promo "My father put a bullet into that jackass (.....) Are you the one making the top 10 Jim Ross ? If you are I beg you on your knees !" _A superb homoerotic vignette announcing the debut of Flying Brian (hated that they never called him by his name), with Yello's "Oh Yeah" as background music _Another embarrassing Dynamic Dude video, this time with "Don't worry be happy" _Teddy Long dressed as a pimp making fun of Ric Flair, and a stupid Norman vignette _The Fabulous Freebirds, Hayes & Gordy vs The Road Warriors, ending with the SST fucking up the Warriors on the outside. I got a kick at the sense of detail put into it by the Birds, as Terry Gordy was going to jump into the mélée but Hayes being the smart guy keeping him from doing so and winning the match via count out. This wasn't even refered to by Ross, they just did it because it was right for their character to act like this. Ah, wrestlers making sense... _A brutal spinebuster by Ron Simmons and a great flying tackle by Butch Reed in two separate matches. Hum... these two should be put together... Just great wrestling TV.

Can-Am Connection vs Bob Orton & Don Muraco : filler Billy Jack Haynes vs Hercules : hot feud, really ? Hillbilly Jim & two midget vs King Kong GBundy & two midget : filler with midgets Harley Race vs Junkyard Dog : hot feud, really ? Dream Team vs Rougeau Brothers : filler to the point even the announcer don't pay attention to the match Roddy Piper vs Adrian Adonis : hot feud Hart Foundation & Danny Davis vs British Bulldogs & Tito Santana : semi hot feud, the focus was clearly on Santana vs Davis which kinda suck for the tag belts Butch Reed vs Koko B. Ware : filler Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage : hot feud Honky Tonk Man vs Jake Roberts : hot feud Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff vs Killer Bees : filler Hulk Hogan vs Andre : hot feud That's 40% of hot feuds and 60% of fillers.

Not yet. I'm just at the second TV show post Wrestler War. I'm glad the Steamboat feud is over because man, Steamboat über sportsman babyface character just doesn't make things very exciting on top. The entrances at WW were ridiculous : Flair got 40 women, and Steamboat came out with his ugly (yes, I'll said it and would say it again, Steamboat's baby was ugly) brat on a poney with his soon-to-divorce-him-and-take-his-money wife. I was so rooting for Flair during this whole feud, and I think I would have done it back then too at 13 years old. You don't get much closer to "pure sports build" than that in modern wrestling, and it showed why it's not a good idea. That the matches are some of the greatest ever are the saving grace of this feud, because it wasn't very exciting on weekly TV after Chi-Town. Also, Steamboat really didn't came off like The Man at all, barely a legit world champion. The way it was done really made him look like the token transitionnal champ to get some more big matches with Flair before losing the title. I didn't buy Steamboat as the World Champ very much to be honest. And I agree, Center Stage made things better.

That Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat feud really was all about the matches, as the angles and interviews before Chi-Town Rumble were good, but the two rematches were just built on "well, we need a rematch". Not very compelling, but of course the matches are amazing. I still don't like the way they worked the ending of Wrestler War very much. Of course the transition toward Terry Funk makes you forget about it immediately. The Dynamic Dudes video with "Iko Iko" is something I'm sure Shane Douglas and Laurinaitis would like to see disapear from the surface of the Earth. The video promoting Flair vs Steamboat was pretty well done for its time, but really, "The Final Countdown" in 1985 ? Add to that the live concert from the Oakridge Boys at the PPV and wrestling appears so unhip it's not even funny. Man, WCW was so southern (but it's a part of its charm). Terry Funk appears on TV and automatically becomes the best thing in the promotion. Amazing. The first mark of corporate goofyness was the Dynamic Dude gimmick, complete with "oh, they are a fun loving duo, our young fans will love them" announcing which made them look even worse. The second mark of cororate goofyness was Norman the Lunatic. The first signs WCW was gonna try to out-WWF the WWF with stupid gimmicks instead of wrestlers, which was a bad idea. Dick Murdoch feuding with Bob Orton was a fun, old-school territory feud with guys working a style alread gone out of fashion. Orton could still go at his age, and looks better than during his WWF stint. Interesting to see the debut of Scott Steiner, not even throwing one suplex. Sting was way goofy at this point, and not very good or interesting in the ring if not working with good opposition. I'd argue that Luger was much better at this point. Luger was taking some serious bump too then, especially a "missed clotheline propelling him over the top rope to the floor" which looked great.

Hell, they used an Italian guy to play an Arab in the 00s. Tells you how much you need to know about how they view their audience (and I guess they aren't entirely wrong sadly).

Piper was pretty awful. Ray Rougeau was kinda dreadful too (in both language). I did enjoy HTM when he did it for a while.

Which makes me think : Slaughter the american iraki sympathiser was a turncoat, but Volkoff the russian american sympathiser was a hero. But yeah, Slaughter was still really good back then, he had Hogan's best match in years in WM VII.

Patterson was Patterson. But WWE has been as homophobic as any other wrestling promotion ever.

Which really should annoy WWE pro-Republican and homophobic nature a whole lot more when you think about it...

Disagree. Yoko was pushed as The Man to Beat from Royal Rumble 1993 up to Wrestle Mania 10. Luger didn't became the main face until Summer of 93, and by Royal Rumble 94 it's arguable that Bret Hart was more over than him (hence the double finish and burial of Luger after WM). From the time Bret lost the belt to the time he got it back, the focus was on Yoko more than anyone else. He pinned Bret Hart, pinned Hogan, didn't lose he belt against Luger, "killed" Taker, probably the strongest heel reign of WWF history up to that point. Yoko was seriously Da Man for a year and a half.

Maybe he was. I can't judge that part. But the feeling I get when I hear him call matches is a good one. Not speaking japanese, I can still tell you that the two goofballs calling FMW matches during the Direct TV era were two of the worst wrestling announcers I've ever heard. J-Taro is up there with Mark Madden has one of the most annoying guy in the booth ever. But I realize it's hard to judge only going with the feel you get from heaing the voices. I don't think any non-french speaking guy could get how great Guy Hauray (french announcer for Montreal wrestling then WWF TV in the late 80's and early 90's) was, very articulate, and a terrific heel, full of shit, indignant, arrogant and quite funny too. Funny fact is that he became somewhat a of coaching guru since leaving WWF in 94. By guru I mean "full of shit". The way he no-sold and made fun of Bob Backlund's performance at Royal Rumble 93 is just awesome.

A million times is a bit overstated, but I agree Tony at his best was better than Ross at his best to me, and Tony was really damn good up until 1997. Totally agree.